Well, when I first saw the pictures I thought it was a scene about Ginsberg and his lover Peter Orlovsky. The photos clearly indicate that the two characters are supposed to be intimate.
So I was stunned to learn that it wasn't Orlovsky in those pictures but Lucien Carr. Lucien Carr was not gay and did not have a love affair with Ginsberg.
So my question-- Is "Kill Your Darlings" purporting that Ginsberg and Carr were lovers? If so, this is completely false and goes against Carr's nature. It's almost like character assassination, to insinuate that Carr was gay and had an affair with Ginsberg (which never happened).
By the way, I think DeHaan must be Leonard DiCaprio's Doppelgänger.
No they are not trying to say Carr was gay they are showing how Ginsberg had a major crush on him. There is a part in the script where they are drunk and Ginsberg kisses Carr. Other then that the script shows them becoming really close friends. Here is the link to the script if you wish to read it yourself; http://www.sendspace.com/file/b1dn2x
Thanks for your response. And thanks for posting that link. I don't want to read the script before I see the movie so I'll read it afterwards.
I get the impression that young Ginsberg developed a crush on all the Beats at some point. Here are pics of him running to hug Jack Kerouac. I wonder what this scene is all about?
I think that scene is somewhere towards the end of the film when everything is all said and done. I think Ginsberg is giving him the manuscript that he wrote on what happened in regards to the murder and such. I am not sure though. I guess we will have to wait to find out..I don't recall reading a scene like that in the script though so it looks as if it was something that was added when they started filming the movie. The script is from 2010 so its a given that there will be quite a few changes made...
It's a little odd to say that it is character assassination to imply that someone is gay. They portray a time where Ginsberg is discovering his sexuality and Carr may or may not have had a relationship with Kammerer. Even if Carr was a married man with kids in his later life they does not preclude him being gay. It was probably pretty common for men at the time to not come out or act on their true inclinations.
I have not read a lot of biographies about the Beats, but the short one I read written by James Grauerholz for And The Hippos Were Boiled In Their Tanks, who is the bibliographer and literary executor of the estate of William S. Burroughs, did mention Lucien Carr's "youthful bisexuality" and why it's not well documented. Because Burroughs, Kerouac and Ginsberg simply refrained from talking about it in previous biographies about them. Grauerholz mentioned Carr and Ginsberg having several sexual encounters in 1944 (same year as the murder), so did Kammerer and Ginsberg. Apparently these were mentioned in Ginsberg's earlier journals (The Book of Martyrdom and Artifice) which were published in 2006, a year after Carr died. Also Carr told Burroughs that he never had sexual relationship with Kammerer, Burroughs believed Carr because he knew if anything between them happened, Kammerer would have told Burroughs.
Basically Graueholz explained the reason why he promised Lucien Carr why Kerouac and Burroughs' Hippos was not going to be publish in Carr's lifetime. It started when Ginsberg begged Burroughs to pacify Carr when Ginsberg mentioned his sexual relationship with Carr in New York Magazine interview, Ginsberg was unsure if he mention this in the interview. At that time Carr was already working at UPI and no one knows about his younger years or the murder, and Ginsberg wanted to "soothe Lucien's savage breast". Burroughs' copyright lawyer filed a defamation of character and copyright infringement law suit against New York magazine. Graueholz translated this as "unauthorized, endorsement-type of one' name or likeness" of Hippos.
Personally, my interpretation of it is, how can they publish Hippos when Kerouac and Burroughs intentionally represented Carr and Kammerer with pseudonyms in the book, then Burroughs filing defamation of character law suit to protect their friend Carr.
From the script I read, they did play on the Carr, Kammerer, Ginsberg triangle and I don't see any risk of character assassination on Carr or Kammerer's part if you base it from Grauerholz' story.
What! Character assasination because he was gay!? OP, you stupid freak! He was a murderer. He was a total prick tease and a filthy murderer and Ginsberg had a crush on him BECAUSE HE WAS CUTE. Ginsberg did not always have good taste. By the way, Ginsberg never had a crush on Bill...he thought Bill was an old man.
Didn't Ginsberg himself claim he had a sexual relationship with Carr in his journals? There certainly seems to have been some kind of affair between them even if they never went all the way.
I would not say sarcasm fail,it does not always come across well on the internet. You do have a point with your statement, I would also assume that murdering someone is worse than being gay. That and I don't think they would be ruining a character or destroying a persons reputation by implying that they could have been gay.
I'm reading his journals now and he never said he had sexual relationship with Carr, unless I've missed it. He was definitely taken with him and talks about him with a lot of fondness.