MovieChat Forums > Kill Your Darlings (2024) Discussion > Did Ginsberg and Carr even have a relati...

Did Ginsberg and Carr even have a relationship?

posted 11 years ago by muztang04
16 replies | jump to latest

Sure they were both part of this beat movement but on the basis of the information I'd looked up on a historical platform, the only true relationship Lucien Carr had was with Jack Kerouac. I've seen no mentions of Ginsberg anywhere. But Burroughs was mentioned at least.

I understand that this is a film that and it probably highly fictionalizes this particular event, but I don't know how much, if there was ANY involvement from Allen Ginsberg.

But Jack Kerouac, sure. He was definitely involved in some capacity.

Can anyone here who has seen the movie offer up some context?

Nobody on the IMDB likes anything anywhere at anytime.

[–] bluemagicmist 11 years ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucien_Carr

Seems like they were pretty good friends to me.

[–] MWallace77 11 years ago

I was pretty sure Ginsberg helped him get rid of the body but now I can't remember.

In the book that Kerouac and Burroughs wrote about it, they said Kerouac spent more time with Carr.

What I've read since then made me think that Karmmerer was the good guy and Carr was nothing but a prick tease and a user.

[–] muthafogger 11 years ago

Yeah, stalking a kid when he was 14 years old and following him to different cities. What an awesome guy! Do you by any chance appreciate the shape and form of young human bodies?

[–] Geiri85 11 years ago

Nothing wrong with such appreciation. We are designed to be attracted to people who have reached puberty. If you ask me age of consent in most places is way too high and unrealistic. But you can find countries where it's as low as 14 or 15.

Plenty of teenagers willingly have sex with older people and go after it, and without ever feeling victimized. And even some who do only start to feel that way after others convince them they are suppose to feel that way.

I'm not gonna defend stalking though.

[–] denise1234 11 years ago

Actually, according to Caleb Carr, son of Lucien Carr:

"David Kammerer did not begin his obsession...when my father was an adult: it began when my father was only twelve or so, and Kammerer was his Boy Scout troop leader..

There are very few moves out of the child predator’s playbook that Kammerer did not use — and all before my father was even out of high school, most before he was out of junior high. So the idea that their relationship was an example of “the love that dare not speak its name” between a young man and an older man is farcical: it was prolonged, sustained child abuse."

cite: http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/24/son-of-famous-beat-murderer-lucien-carr-disputes-kill-your-darlings-films-version-of-events/#ixzz2wmAQZpZt

"I will not go gently onto a shelf, degutted, to become a non-book." ~ Bradbury

[–] Aquarius66 11 years ago

You mustn't have looked very hard. There's a number of photos showing them together (including this one at Carr's wedding: http://selvedgeyard.com/2009/04/10/lucien-carr-the-glue-of-the-beat-ge neration/ - this link also contains a video showing the group of friends, as well as a photo of Kerouac, Ginsberg and Carr together where the three men bear quite a resemblance to their movie counterparts)

Here's a nice NY Times book section account: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/06/books/columbia-u-haunts-of-lucien-ca rr-and-the-beats.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[–] titch85 11 years ago

They were definitely close friends and remained so. And Ginsberg was very much in love with him - judging from his diaries from that time.

Sarah

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[–] MWallace77 11 years ago

From what I read Kammerer was trying to distance himself from Carr but Carr would get in touch with Kammerer...with his hand out, I guess Carr had an allowance from his parents but apparently he always overspent.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] MWallace77 11 years ago

Did Carr serve any time at all for the murder of Kammerer? I mean they made Kammerer out as the bad guy but frankly, I think Carr was a user and obviously a sociopath. He seemed to feel no guilt at all for killing David. And he probably simply killed Kammerer because Kammerer refused to give him money. Seems like someone who knew Carr, should give an opinion on him.

[–] StuTheWarriorDucky 11 years ago

He served two years for manslaughter.

~this is temporary sanity, an exercise in vanity~

[–] atapj 11 years ago

Then went on to a long career at UPI as an editor. I'm guessing his ex-con status, and fear of re-incarceration kept him from participating in the "On the Road" and later hijinks. His son is the novelist Caleb Carr (The Alienist, and others).

[–] bing-57 11 years ago

> I mean they made Kammerer out as the bad guy but frankly, I think Carr was a user and obviously a sociopath.

They appeared to both be using each other. Kammerer provided money and got attention from Carr and maybe sex. Carr provided the attention and maybe sex and got cash.

--
What Would Jesus Do For A Klondike Bar (WWJDFAKB)?

[–] Bree_33 11 years ago

First matter of fact; it was Lucien Carr who introduced Allen Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac and William Burroughs to each other.

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