MovieChat Forums > Halloween II (2009) Discussion > I think people forget this isn't a seque...

I think people forget this isn't a sequel to the original

posted 9 years ago by darthdoctor1
18 replies | jump to latest

Everyone has major problems with this movie, but I have to say, ranking the whole franchise, this is the third best of the bunch scoring four and a half. The first two are the original, and Halloween III Season Of The Witch.

Yes, Myers was an established character, as was Loomis, Laurie and everybody else. They were established in 1978. But this isn't a sequel to the original franchise, this is Zombies own creation taking place in the Zombie universe. In the original franchise, the brother and sister storyline damaged it, and the original Halloween II was a mess that John Carpenter had to get drunk to write (seriously, he said that, look it up if you don't believe me).

Yes this movie is drastically different from the originals, but so what? The original movie is the only movie that happened from the original bunch in my opinion. Just babysitters stalked by a psychopath. What Zombie did, was he took themes from the franchise and made them work in a whole new and different style. The brother and sister storyline was evident from the start and worked in to the plot so everything made sense and worked. The first of these remakes was a bit dull in places i'll admit, but that was down to studio interference, not Zombie himself. The directors cut of H2, is honestly brilliant horror, and is immaculately shot.

Now, this movie is different, so why not make it something else entirely? Because then all you fan boys out there would blame him for ripping the franchise off. This is Halloween in an alternate universe. A different time line where they ARE brother and sister. And it works here. And it's a damn fine movie. If it was a sequel to the 1978 classic, no, i wouldn't like it. But it isn't, so get over it and just enjoy it for what it managed to succeed in.

[–] dave626 9 years ago

I will give Zombie points for boldness and originality, but here's the thing. Bad enough you make Michael Myers white trash in the first film, but at least he didn't growl much, show his adult face and didn't speak. When it comes to Halloween films, the fans have expectations and they weren't met. Not by a long shot. Halloween is not uber-violent like Saw. It's Halloween. Turn Freddy into a real pedophile instead of just a child murderer and the fans will have a fit.

There are certain lines fans don't like having crossed. A hulking Myers is one of them. I've got nothing against Tyler Mane, but he was just too big. He'd have been a better Jason. Michael always had a normal build.

This *is* a sequel because it follows the events of the previous film with the exact same people, add a few new death fodder to beef up the cast. One was totally different than the other. Line homages, scenes, no super gore. No visions, etc. Had the first one gone the route the second did, it wouldn't be much of a departure, would it? As it was, this was everything Halloween never was. Again, bold, just not smart. Sure it'll bring in new fans who like Saw, but now what? Story's over. You don't alter the game plan on the last installment w/o a follow up. Hence, Resurrection. It may have sucked, but at least H20 gave it hope.

If you do like you say, separate Halloween III and this one, okay then. But it's still not the Michael we all know and was much more successful in the past. Halloween II was just Zombie's way of getting out of a contract. Thankfully Carpenter's get out of contract move wasn't as damaging. Neither cared, but at least Carpenter didn't ruin it to the point of another new timeline.

"He came home." - Dr. Sam Loomis from the original HalloweeN

[–] willydoe71 9 years ago

There are certain lines fans don't like having crossed. A hulking Myers is one of them.

See, now right there you are speculating on behalf of the fans. I'm a HUGE fan of the original movie, have been for over 30 years, but I loved how RZ made Michael a giant in his movie.

[–] dave626 9 years ago

Yes, but you are one person. I have seen a few on here who actually like it, which is their right, but after having been here since the movie was being made, let alone come out, I've seen a hell of a lot more people who didn't like it. And majority rules. That and box office sales, critical acclaim both by fans and professionals alike. Those are the biggest telling signs that this was not a liked entry in the franchise. Go to any other Halloween board here and see where people rank this. That should be very telling.

"He came home." - Dr. Sam Loomis from the original HalloweeN

[–] willydoe71 9 years ago

You didn't prove anything, and now you're changing up your point. You said earlier that fans didn't like the fact that Michael was a hulking figure as compared to a normal person. Which I said was wrong because some fans don't care and actually liked that part of it. You didn't say some fans, or a majority of fans, or most fans, etc. You said fans, which means all fans. And I was telling you that you are wrong.

But now you are saying that most people didn't like the movie. That's not what we were discussing, whether or not people liked the actual movie. We were discussing his size. And again, I say you are only speculating that fans didn't like him being a giant based solely on a very small percentage of the population who post on these boards. For every one person that posts on here, there are probably 100 or more people who don't.

And I have been coming to these boards ever since the movie came out also. I posted about it quite a lot when the movie first came out, but now only come here once in a while.

[–] dave626 9 years ago

Sorry if I was jumping around on you. Basically, a lot of fans didn't like Halloween II. A lot of fans didn't like the remake either. There are several aspects they didn't like, from Michael, to white trash, to white horses and ghosts to the destruction of the characters of Laurie, Loomis and Annie. The board is rife with people who didn't like this movie. A lot of them on this board and others.

You are as much entitled to your opinion as I am mine. Doesn't change facts or other people's opinions of it either. I never outright said you were wrong, I said that a lot of people didn't like it and they don't. Which is their choice. Don't think you can force your *opinion* on someone to make them sway to your side. It won't work. No one is wrong, just a difference of opinion.

All I can tell you is this, had the film actually been *good* then it would've made more money, more people would want more of this universe, with or without Zombie. Michael never dies and Laurie, well, that ending can be interpreted *many* ways. Up to the fans. As it is, we're getting a direct sequel to the original Halloween II.

There is no sense in arguing with you further. I'll let the boards, the people, the box office, speak for themselves. I will point out one thing, not too many people are coming to defend you or echo your points. Something to think about.

"He came home." - Dr. Sam Loomis from the original HalloweeN

[–] willydoe71 9 years ago

And nobody is coming to defend you or echo your points either.

All I'm basically saying is that you shouldn't generalize an entire group of people based solely on what you see.

[–] DragonbradZ 8 years ago

Most fans hated it. That's pretty much fact.

One thing that is painfully annoying in both of his movies is how everyone around Myers (right before they die) is bullying him like he's some scrawny 5' tall dude. The two rapist orderlies, the 2 farm dudes in the field with the daughter, the truck driver taking a dump, the lanky guy taking out the trash at the strip joint, the fat owner...they all talked down to him like they had no fear of some hulking 7' tall muscle man creepy dude like seriously wtf, no one would act like that or have the balls to openly challenge some WWE looking guy like they wouldnt expect an ass beating back.

He looked stupid

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/797-Transformers-Revenge

[–] dirtbunny199 8 years ago

I'm with dave626 on this one. I know this was Rob Zombie's vision but the hulkish Michael Myers who growled was just plain weird. Part of the scariness of the original Michael was that he was just a regular size guy who seemed indestructible (he could really take a bullet or six!) The guy in the remakes was HUGE!!! I'm surprised he didn't do way more damage than he did in those films.

[–] alanparsons (559) 2 years ago

"Bad enough you make Michael Myers white trash in the first film"

Rob Zombie turned the entire Halloween universe into white trash. Just stupid and unnecessary.

[–] horrorules 9 years ago

darthdoctor you rocks man i LOVED this movie my rating for it is 10/10, one of the best slasher ever, so intense, dark, violent and different, Rob Zombie is a very new master of horror.

Stupid and pathetic fan boys hated this movie and they are scum

ehy H2 haters, look this
http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr226/zombiezombie/suck.jpg

[–] Alex_de_Large_18 9 years ago

First off, if you don't like Rob Zombie's style and his Halloween remake then you're gonna hate this one! Zombie took everything he needed and put that into his own specific world. I'm talking about white trash, rednecks, foul language, rock music and raw violence. He took the protagonists from his remake and changed them completely. They are now his characters, not Carpenter's anymore. Halloween II is 100% a Rob Zombie film and you feel it the entire 119 minutes.

The story takes place 2 years after the events of the remake and everybody tries to deal differently with their misery. There are no more all these happy people in their nice little world. Halloween II shows you damaged people in a rough and nasty world. Zombie even shows that on a visual level. The raw, dirty and gritty look of the 16mm film provides a rough, brutal and realistic approach. The marginal lighting is also very effective. This movie is really dark.
So visually Halloween II is simply stunning! And it all fits because the movie has a very dark and depressing atmosphere. There are no funny moments and as the movie progresses it gets darker and darker. It's really depressing.

Laurie lives now with Sheriff Brackett and Annie. She is haunted by terrible nightmares.
She goes to see a therapist but it doesn't help her at all. Her relationship with Annie is terrible. Each time they talk to each other it ends in a fight. Brackett tries his best to take care of these two girls but he can't quite live up to it. And Dr. Loomis ist very happy to be alive. He makes profit out of other people's misery. He's wearing expensive designer suits, drives in a limousine, is a guest on a talk show and is publishing another book with the title "The Devil Walks Among Us". He is one of those "new-found-celebreties", a total media-whore and an *beep*
Michael Myers has visions of his mother, Deborah, and lives in the woods (if you want to call it like that). His look has changed. He wears a hoodie, he's grown a full beard, his hair is even longer and more filthy, his mask is falling apart etc. and you can see his face. There is one scene where you can see it in bright daylight! But most of the time you see him at night, so it's covered by darkness or shadows. His mother has a lot of screentime.

Many fans are crying now: "This is not Halloween. Those aren't the characters we know and love!" And they are right. Those are Rob Zombie's characters, not John Carpenter's.
Zombie's film has NOTHING in common with the original Halloween. The Halloween Theme plays only one single time, and that is during the end credits. I know it's hard to believe but I didn't miss it, not even for a second! Practically there are no stalking scenes any more. Most of the time Michael pops up out of nowhere and suddenly appears behind his victims. And I'm pleased with that. Zombie knows exactly what he is doing, but not everyone will like it. Personally I love this film. I think it's brillant in every single way.

Halloween II is brutal and I mean BRUTAL. There is not much gore but Michael is pissed as hell. Forget about the lousy "two-stab-attacks" with the old kitchen knife. Michael stabs his victims countless times, even if they are already dead. You can really hear his frustration and anger.
He is like grunting when he is doing his thing. The sound is phenomenal. You can hear every tiny little bone cracking. I did not expect such a high level of violence but it fits the mood of the film and I was even shocked at times. Especially during the "head-stomp-scene". Tyler Mane and Rob Zombie made Michael Myers finally scary again, but in a different way than Carpenter did.

The first 25 minutes are very intense and suspenseful. But the movie is able to hold that pace.
It never gets dull or boring. The film keeps your attention throughout the entire runtime.
Zombie even succeeds at creating emotional scenes. I want to name 3 scenes which really upset me (but there are a lot more!):

SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Brackett finds Annie
2. Laurie finds Annie
3. Laurie finds out that she is Michael Myers' sister

SPOILER END!!!!!!!!!

I don't want to go too deep into detail, but these scenes were really sad imo. Especially the first one! I think it was because of Brad Dourif's terrific acting and the homevideo footage of young Annie. But Scout Taylor-Compton's acting is very strong and believeable too. Tyler Bates' score is the final trigger-point for this flood of emotions. Scout & Brad have a lot more screentime this time and as I already said, they act much better. I think that's because their characters are much more intersting now, at least for me. One of Scout's highlights is her second therapy scene with Margot Kidder. Malcolm McDowell portrays the *beep* wonderfully and is even better than in the remake. Well, actually I liked everyone better in this film. I really liked Laurie's new friends Mya and Harley, although they did not have that much screentime.

I think it's great that Halloween II is not your typical sequel, but a really great character study. It delves so deep into the characters and deals with them and their experiences, and what they have been through. Even Halloween itself is quite important to the story. The Phantom Jam was executed very well. It seemed like a real party, with real people and like a real place etc.

What did people hate the most about Halloween II? Right, Michael's mother! Almost everytime when Michael kills someone she is onscreen as well. I don't know why they hate it so much, but I really liked this story element and I think Sheri Moon Zombie looked really creepy in that outfit. And for the haters: Mommy and the white horse are explained at the very beginning.
Just pay attention!

The ending: I'm impressed. Really great. Zombie couldn't have come up with a better ending imo. For me it's the perfect closure. The last 2 scenes even gave me goosebumps (along with the music choice). Needles to say that the movie has a really great soundtrack and a very felicitous, dark and sad score.

All in all, I love Halloween II from beginning to end. There was absolutely nothing(!) that bothered me. Much better than the remake (which I really really like). Imo Halloween II is the best Halloween movie ever! Only John Carpenter's Halloween is better, but you can't beat that movie anyway. It's just impossible.

This time the Director's Cut is the far superior version imo.

10/10

[–] willydoe71 9 years ago

Well said Alex


[–] DragonbradZ 8 years ago

Only idiots with *beep* taste like Zombie's movies lol

He's a hack

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/797-Transformers-Revenge

[–] Legion_89 9 years ago

My opinion on the franchise changes from time to time, but I will say I consider myself a Halloween fan AND a Rob Zombie fan, and the two put together just makes it all the better :) I really enjoyed this particular installment of the series (honestly, I saw it 4 times in the theaters, it was that awesome). I know most seem to hate this one, but I loved it: much like the Producer's Cut of Halloween 6, its dark, atmospheric and has a very suspenseful opening sequence (definitely two of the darkest openings in the entire series). Also, H2 improves upon the remake by giving the characters more relateable, real life reactions; everyone has undergone a severe traumatic event, and each person has changed in some way (aside from Michael who never changes), and most of the times its for the worse.

The film also gets much darker as it moves along; much like H6, it has very few comedic moments, and becomes continually more depressing as it goes along (shown through interactions with the characters, the environment, etc). The dream sequences also add an air of surrealism to the film, and honestly makes it more intriguing to me (it shows the inner workings of Michael's twisted perception of reality, and how he views his surroundings). What I really loved was the characterization of Laurie Strode; no longer the sweet innocent young girl we saw in Zombies first film, she drinks, parties, and basically lives the life of a rebellious teen, and Annie has taken over the role of the responsible one, being somewhat maternal towards her friend. However, the film's real darkness lies in the journey Laurie goes on; she becomes more emotionally unstable as the film goes on, unable to cope with her experiences, and at the end becomes purely and utterly gone. Its rather heartbreaking to watch actually, especially if you recall how she used to be (even moreso given her relationship with Annie, and how the tragedy has ripped them apart.)

Halloween 2 took a major risk with the characters and the rules of the franchise, and I feel it paid off in the end; the film is one of the darkest and most brutal entries in the series, and the film stays that way through its entire running length, and personally I feel that adds to its charm and appeal (though if youre not a fan of Zombie, this will not please you probably). I personally recommend going for the Director's Cut version, as its not only longer and better put together, its more emotionally resonant, and adds a whole new layer to the film, as it turns it from a standard horror film to a horror-tragedy (a truly heart-wrenching scene for me involves Brackett finding Annie dead, and then the footage of a younger Annie plays over the melancholic music that plays; adds a new level of heart that wasnt there in the theater version).

Sorry for the lengthy response, but wanted to convey my feelings on the film; its my third favorite film in the series, and even though most dislike it, I hold it up in high regard (maybe most fans dont like it, but I like to think I'm more of a open minded fan of the series). 10/10

"I am the one who knocks."

[–] gabrieltosh 8 years ago

Zombie movies are better because they have more boobs

[–] dave626 8 years ago

Not in this one. All we really got was the stripper and we've already seen Danielle. Almost saw Trimbur's but no Grant or Compton, sadly. Halloween films are not known for their nudity though. That would be Friday films. All well and good, but I prefer a good story to just body exploitation.

"He came home." - Dr. Sam Loomis from the original HalloweeN

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