MovieChat Forums > The Rocky Horror Picture Show: Let's Do the Time Warp Again (2016) Discussion > Frank as a woman destroyed the entire sh...

Frank as a woman destroyed the entire show...

posted 8 years ago by stsinger
17 replies | jump to latest

They took the guy who made the "High School Musicals" and made a "High School Musical Rocky Horror Picture Show." Completely removed every shred of naughtiness. Why even bother to make it?

Frank 'N Furter as a woman. This is what totally destroyed it for me. Frank 'N Furter is a man who dresses in women's clothing, who dallies with women but prefers men, who builds a muscle-bound man in the lab so he can marry him. In this show, Frank is a woman who dresses like a woman, dallies with women but prefers men, and built a muscle-bound man in the lab so she can marry him. Where's the naughtiness in that? Making Frank a women literally destroys the entire concept of the show.

Now, if you made Frank a woman and went all the way and switched genders... now that's something different. If Rocky were, instead of a muscle-bound man, a sexy, curvy Playboy model in a bikini (the stereotypical "Sexy Woman" in the same way that Rocky is the stereotypical "Sexy Man") then you would have preserved the naughtiness and raunch that is so important for RHPS.

[–] noother32 8 years ago

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chouse0407 8 years ago

I haven't watched it yet, but in all fairness, the person playing Frank n furter is actually a man, she is transgender.

[–] buffyslayedme 8 years ago

Being a transgendered woman means that she's NOT a man. She is now a female, and the character is treated and referred to as a female. What's even more upsetting was an interview I read with Laverne where she seemed to be under the assumption that Transvestite was an outdated term for Transgender. They mean two TOTALLY different things. Traditionally, a transvestite is a person who dresses in clothes of the opposite sex, most of the time for sexual pleasure. Frank is a man who revels in the fact that he's a man who dresses in lingerie and heels, that freely has sex with whatever and whomever he wants. I agree that changing the character to female COULD have worked if they switched around a few other things. But as it stands, they just "de-gayed" the material. And as someone who's usually a fan of Cox, I was beyond disappointed in her strange, and dare I say bad, interpretation of the character.

[–] mtdman-90-390951 8 years ago

You're a fan of Cox?

[–] buffyslayedme 8 years ago

Yes, I am. Of Cox the actress, and cocks the body part because I'm gay. What of it?

[–] cteavin-1 8 years ago

What of it? You're going into the film expecting everyone to share your idea of what a man and woman are. They don't. Laverne Cox doesn't either, apparently. She, I, and a lot of other people recognize her performance as not a man, not a woman, but a transgender person.

You can like it or not, you can disagree with it or not, but that's the reality.

Personally, I think having her play the role and changing the pronouns was a welcome change. When she pulls Brad and Janet on top of her I was genuinely curious what kind of sex they'd be having and THAT is something Tim Curry couldn't do when he played the part.

[–] illbeoneasystreet 8 years ago

The problem is they didn't change anything else to accomodate Laverne Cox playing the role as a trans person. Frank wasn't written as a trans person he was written as a transvestite which in something different. Frank didn't want to be a woman he just liked dressing in clothing traditionally worn by women. The problem is in casting Laverne Cox and not changing anything other then the costumes and the pronouns they stripped Rocky of it's overt queerness (key word there is overt not queer). Like it or not Laverne is cis passing and when I look at her it is hard not to see anything other then a gorgeous woman. As such the displays of homosexuality in the movie are few and far between. Had they made Rocky a woman and changed Janet to Frank's prominent target it could have worked. But they didn't as such a movie that has been a symbol for the gay community since it became a cult classic has been stripped of most of its gayness. Frank/Brad, Frank/Janet, Frank/Rocky, Rocky/Janet, Frank/Eddie, Eddie/Columbia Columbia/Frank Riff/Magenta (only present in original). It changes the ratio significantly while in the original movie the gay to straight relationships were 3:5 in the new movie they are 2:5. And considering both the lesbian couples move on immediatley after to heterosexual appearing relationships it really waters down the message.

The casting of Laverne Cox may have worked for you but it didn't work for many of us, and we have legit reasons for saying that. We aren't all ignorant of the LGBTQA community and our reasons for disliking it are just as legit as yours. I wanted to like this I really did. When Tim came on I was more then willing to give it a chance but it fell short for many reasons mostly completeley missing the point.

Its something you'll get used to a mental mind *beep* can be nice!

[–] cteavin-1 8 years ago

I disagree with you. TRHPS was a tradition in my high school and I saw it several times as a closeted gay youth and never identified it as queer, nor with any of the characters. Lavern Cox did say that she saw herself as a transexual person in Frank. That I can also see.

I do take your point that when Tim Curry seduces Brad, they're having gay sex. When Lavern is seducing either one, it's a mystery as to what's going on. For me, that ambiguity contains within it the (forgive me for saying it this way, but it's to underscore the point) "yuck" factor. Kids, fortunately, don't get that today with same-sex kissing, etc. as they would have when the original film debuted and that's what LC adds to this modern reinterpretation, imo.

As for changing the language of the song, well, it IS called Sweet Transvestite and she wasn't dressed as a man, so you DO have a point. For me, though, my previous point outweighs that.

[–] illbeoneasystreet 8 years ago

Just because you didn't see yourself represented doesn't mean other people didn't. All it takes is a google search to see how much of an impact this had on the gay community. Rocky wouldn't have lasted as long as it had without that.

I'm glad someone got something out of it, but for me it missed the mark completely.

Its something you'll get used to a mental mind *beep* can be nice!

[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

She, I, and a lot of other people recognize her performance as not a man, not a woman, but a transgender person.

It's all nice and all but the part is not that of a transgender person. Frank is a transvestite, as described in the lyrics and the original script. He's a cross-dressing man.

When she pulls Brad and Janet on top of her I was genuinely curious what kind of sex they'd be having and THAT is something Tim Curry couldn't do when he played the part.

LOL who cares what kind of sex they are having? You know what else Curry or Cox couldn't pull off? Doing a realistic impression of Janet and Brad and you know what? Nobody cares about how realistic that is either.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] cteavin-1 8 years ago

My point is that "transvestite" was shocking at the time and a "transexual" is shocking in this time, which is why the kind of sex they had adds to the story.

As to the lyrics, they can twist things to add their take. Personally, I didn't mind and didn't think ti took anything away. At the same time, there might be some who watch this and see Lavern Cox as a man in drag, not recognizing or making a distinction between transvestite and transexual.

[–] Blue_Eyes_James 8 years ago

Exactly, I was mystified by that interview where she said -

"transvestite is an “antiquated term that trans folks certainly don’t use" &
“It’s not appropriate to refer to trans people as a transvestite"

Where the fudge does that indicate that she even understands those words! I don't pull on fishnets, well not since I was actually in the RHS, but if I did I'd be offended that she just dissed all transvestites as... not really existing? Because she thinks the word has something to do with trans folks?

BTW my transgendered friends are pretty uncomfortable with her taking this role. But most of them have a bravery she doesn't have. Cox's life is all about "transglamour". Beings trans in everyday life isn't always glamour, it's being regular folk.

[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

BTW my transgendered friends are pretty uncomfortable with her taking this role.

I think it doesn't help already confused issues about what transgender is but I also don't believe she has to be a standard-bearer for anyone else.

But most of them have a bravery she doesn't have. Cox's life is all about "transglamour". Beings trans in everyday life isn't always glamour, it's being regular folk.

That's kinda mean and reductive. She's an actress. Her public life is one thing and unless you know her personally, you can hardly say what kind of everyday life she is living.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

I haven't watched it yet, but in all fairness, the person playing Frank n furter is actually a man, she is transgender.

Then she's not a man. She's a woman.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

[–] HorrorFanatic24 8 years ago

Exactly. This Frank sucked.

[–] pistrix 8 years ago

They took the guy who made the "High School Musicals" and made a "High School Musical Rocky Horror Picture Show." Completely removed every shred of naughtiness. Why even bother to make it?

To make a politically correct, teeny bopper, boyband, pretty people, glamorized, horrible as can be remake.

((Damn the remakes, Save the originals.))