what was up with the ass kicking/shop destruction?? someone tell me quick what as up with the betting/bets joe was taking... Im confused on that part of the storyline
-ashe
PS THANKS
also i think Owen is becoming my favorite of the 3.... yours??
It was crazy. The "I thought you were my friend" thing was insane.
It really only makes sense as a "mob type" reaction to Joe moving in on his "turf". I.E. getting shot for selling drugs on another gang's corner.
The Bookie turned down the business. It was Joe's prerogative.
If the gamblers had won...would the Bookie have covered the bets? No.
He only wants the winnings now because he is a D # C K.
It was crazy. The "I thought you were my friend" thing was insane.
It really only makes sense as a "mob type" reaction to Joe moving in on his "turf". I.E. getting shot for selling drugs on another gang's corner.
The Bookie turned down the business. It was Joe's prerogative.
If the gamblers had won...would the Bookie have covered the bets? No.
He only wants the winnings now because he is a D # C K.
...However, Manfro didn't really mean to knock his tooth out and I found it endearing when he came back into the store to tell Joe to put the tooth in milk before going to the dentist so he wouldn't lose it.
He obviously didn't want to hurt Joe because he does have a soft spot for him.
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It wasn't just the one bet that Manfro didn't accept, Joe continued with more bets and went as far as to tell the "gambler" guy not to call Manfro because he was too sick. Joe knew what he was doing was out of line.
shareYeah - I think that's the key: the gambler thought he was still betting with Manfro, so when he called Manfro asking why Joe didn't take the money, Manfro went apesh#t. Now, if the gambler had won, Manfro, no doubt would never have covered the bet and would have told Joe to go pay it since he took it. But Manfro is a sleazebag bookie, so we can't expect fair behavior or rationality from him.
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I just thought the bookie got mad at him for taking that guy's action without letting the bookie know about it or asking permission. Maybe deep inside hes trying to keep him away from the gambling hence the blow out at the party store, which could be interpreted as tough love.
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Have you actually watched this show? That's not who Joe is at all.
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First off, are you aware this is a tv show and not real life? You're arbitrarily assigning character traits to fictional characters who have up to this point never demonstrated that kind behavior. That's why I'm wondering if you've actually watched the show.
Joe has an addictive personality and without golf, his obsession with gambling came up again to fill up that hole. Granted he wasn't betting, but by taking other people's bets, he was still essentially wagering, not on teams but on other guys to lose. He was going behind Manfro's back, engaging in a lot of deceptive behavior and doing a lot of rationalizing. That's why the situation with the electronics guy really hit home: Joe was essentially looking into the mirror since they're both divorced middle aged guys with kids and have a small business to run. Both are also guys who turned to gambling in order to feel better about their lives.
Now if acting out violently was in Joe's makeup, he would have have gotten his money from the guy. But he's not and it's one of the reasons why he stopped taking bets from then on out from everyone. It's precisely why that episode ended Joe's story line with him eating pizza with his two kids. Because he's a dad, and the exact opposite of a tough guy or a bookie.
What was interesting about the most recent episode is that he got a second chance with a girl who stopped dating him precisely of his gambling. We saw she still sees that Joe is deep down a decent guy. Hence the line, "Good Joe is kinda awesome." She's the exact opposite of that other gal he was dating, that chick genuinely seemed to get excited that he was acting like a bookie.
He gets a tooth knocked out, reconnects with the nice girl, and the episode ends with him back out on the golf range.
In short, he got his *beep* straightened out.
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@ pedemano:
i'm not quite sure whether you're addressing your reply to me or to brutony, but i'll answer your comment, too...
you wrote:
First off, are you aware this is a tv show and not real life? You're arbitrarily assigning character traits to fictional characters who have up to this point never demonstrated that kind behavior. That's why I'm wondering if you've actually watched the show....
Yes Manfro is not a nice guy, yes he's a thug, and congrats on your wonderful breakdown about "wife beaters."
It's a shame I'm not talking about him because all that might have been worth reading.
I'm addressing Joe's traits, try to keep up son.
...I'm addressing Joe's traits, try to keep up son.
...What was interesting about the most recent episode is that he got a second chance with a girl who stopped dating him precisely of his gambling. We saw she still sees that Joe is deep down a decent guy. Hence the line, "Good Joe is kinda awesome." She's the exact opposite of that other gal he was dating, that chick genuinely seemed to get excited that he was acting like a bookie.
i wrote this comment in another thread; i'll repeat it here:
"...and the confrontation between Joe & Manfro confused the hell out of me...
i've been trying to learn about this whole "bookie betting" thing, and have been discussing it in the "Joe is Out of Control" thread; it's still too complicated for me to understand...
now i know that Manfro is going thru' hell with his chemo treatments, but he was so violent that i just thought he was a major, scary a$$----!
goes to show that if you mess with that "element" you're messing with fire, and Joe's lucky that he just got his store messed up and all he lost was a tooth...
could've been a lot worse!! ..."
that pretty much is my interpretation of the incident in the store...
Manfro's business is bookmaking - he's a bookie...
he deals with gamblers - many of whom are addicted to gambling...
he takes advantage of their weaknesses, and [more than likely] makes a healthy living off of them...
basically, IMO Manfro IS NOT a nice guy!
Measure twice; Cut once.
One thing that has not been brought up but is key is that Manfro did send him to pick up a bet and this is after he got off on how the guy thought that Joe was his back up. Pick up your own dog's sh*t!!!
"Your dentist's name is Krentist?"
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There's a few things, I think, that most people seem to be missing.
Manfro was still taking bets. He was on the computer, with a game on TV, when Joe came over, and asked him if he was working. He said yes.(earlier episode)
There was only one instance where he was feeling to sick to take a bet.
He didn't mean to hurt Joe. Joe grabbed him and Manfro elbowed him as a reflex.
And most importantly, his rage wasn't really about the money. He felt hurt and betrayed by Joe, whom he was starting to consider a friend.
His "look what you made me do" and ".. put it in milk" comments show he was remorseful. Him coming off like a "wife beater" was kind of the point.
This is how Manfro acts,when he's hurt.
He went ballistic when the coffee shop guy wouldn't say "HI" to him, first.
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Thanks for pointing out the blatantly obvious. Gee it's almost like the writers of the show are trying to set up that dynamic between Joe and Manfro.
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@ ve h es:
you wrote:
(nasloranger) You and Manfro could benefit from some anger management classes.
first you don't know the first or last thing about me, and...
Not true. We know you have a problem with wife beaters because you mention it in every damn post.
Forgive me for just jumping in, but I couldn't fight the urge. First off...Mr./Mrs. nasloranger...the subject is Joe + The Bookie. If you want to discuss your obvious distaste for Manfro, start a new thread.
Second, no one ever said that the "beating" was "endearing". Take a moment, slow down, and re-read the post. The poster said that he/she found the fact that he came back to tell him about the tooth was "endearing". Your ability to communicate your thoughts and feelings on the matter is commendable, but your arguments are a little skewed.
The comparison to Manfro as having "wife-beater" qualities is pointless. Did he display signs of rage...yes, but so do people with road rage. Oh and here's a thought, maybe people with cancer who are in the middle of chemotherapy treatments might show signs of abnormal behavior.
Also your labeling Manfro as a "psycho", is just plain ignorant. Taking issue with someone's actions, right or wrong, does not make you a psycho.
My feeling is that you will respond quite eloquently to my observations, so I will kindly wait to hear your thoughts.
Without imagination there is no reality.
@ moneil28:
as i was reading your post i thought, "man, this isn't even worth responding to" because some of your comments were misconstrued or just plain incorrect...
but then you politely asked for a response to your observations, so i will "kindly" answer you...
after this i am done contributing to this thread...
as a matter of fact, in view of the fact that July 6th's episode is the season finale, i probably won't be writing much more about the "men of a certain age" in the future...
it's doubtful that they will be returning at all from what i have been reading...
o.k., all that said, i will address your comments to me one at a time:
Forgive me for just jumping in, but I couldn't fight the urge. First off...Mr./Mrs. nasloranger...the subject is Joe + The Bookie. If you want to discuss your obvious distaste for Manfro, start a new thread.
Second, no one ever said that the "beating" was "endearing". Take a moment, slow down, and re-read the post. The poster said that he/she found the fact that he came back to tell him about the tooth was "endearing". Your ability to communicate your thoughts and feelings on the matter is commendable, but your arguments are a little skewed.
The comparison to Manfro as having "wife-beater" qualities is pointless. Did he display signs of rage...yes, but so do people with road rage. Oh and here's a thought, maybe people with cancer who are in the middle of chemotherapy treatments might show signs of abnormal behavior.
Also your labeling Manfro as a "psycho", is just plain ignorant. Taking issue with someone's actions, right or wrong, does not make you a psycho.
My feeling is that you will respond quite eloquently to my observations, so I will kindly wait to hear your thoughts.
whew...so much for slowing down! I'm really disappointed that I recieved not even 1 emoticon!
Look...you are really spending WAY too much time analyzing people who aren't even real. They're characters...nothing more, nothing less.
I'm not going to break down every little comment you've made, because thankfully I have a life....not to assume you don't, of course.
I really just couldn't figure out why you had to use such vivid descriptive terms to describe your true feelings for the characters...
Manfro- "low-life bottom feeding scumbag"
Joe- "weak, flawed, pitiful man"
I hope that you aren't so judgemental to "real" people...I can imagine you might be very hard to deal with.
Manfro Without imagination there is no reality.
OMG, moneil! you noticed i didn't use any emoticons - not even 1!!
that is just too funny! so here's one...
actually, i could have used a lot of or or even - but i wanted to play my response to you "straight" that time...
of course, i realize the "men & co." aren't real! they are t.v. characters, and i am analyzing & critiquing them as such...
i'm not a "psycho", moneil...
i can differentiate between truth and fiction! (another emoticon for you!)
"vivid description" is my forte - i am a writer of sorts! it is very difficult for me to write short, non-descriptive sentences...
there is absolutely nothing wrong with describing a person in words to paint a mental picture of someone...
it would be pretty boring to describe Manfro as "that bookie guy" or Joe as "that divorced guy who owns a party shop", now wouldn't it?
unless a person is totally brain dead, or devoid of feelings, emotions and/or opinions, it is difficult to not judge "real" people's behavior, right?
let me ask you:
do you ever express displeasure with your neighbor's behavior? or with the latest politician who got caught with his pants down? or with the murdering punks who killed an innocent bystander in a drive-by shooting?
of course you do!
two things to wrap this up:
1) i do have a life! it has been, and still is, fulfilling and happy!
2) tho' i may be judgmental, i am not hard to deal with! at last count i have more "friends" than "enemies"...
one last emoticon for you...
no - one more!
nasloranger
Measure twice; Cut once.
I used to know a couple of bookies, one had a nasty disposion and the other had friends who had nasty disposions. It comes with the job, dealing with losers and deadbeats all of the time and people not wanting to pay or betting money they don't have.
By taking those few bets Joe knew if Manfro found out he would be pissed, and yet because he's a degenerate gambler himself and he thought he could win, he took them anyway.
It became time to pay the piper. You could tell Manfro didn't want to do it because of there friendship, but he has to protect his business.
Ok I'm sure I'll get flamed here but Manfro wasn't in the wrong. Look, Joe never once said he was taking the action personally. He let the restaraunt guy and the camera guy think they were placing their bets with Manfro.
He put Manfro in a bad spot with his 'customers'. Joe even went so far as not to collect the debt from the camera guy. Hmmmm wonder what Manfro's other customers thought of that, 'hey Manfro's sick, he's not going to collect our debts'.
Step back and think if this was a legit business and Joe was falsely representing a company he would be libel in a court of law. If that was the case he would be sued by the company and he would lose in court. Business is business and bookies have their own set of 'rules' that you have to obey.
Now I'm sorry but Joe knew exactly what he was doing, he choice to become part of that world and I don't feel sorry for him. Also seriously if people think Manfro who knocked over a few displays and pulled the knetting holding some balls is 'an out of control psycho' then you need to look up the term for psycho.
He wasn't even going after Joe physically, Joe went to grab him and he reacted. Hell Joe should get on the ground and thank god Manfro didn't learn bookmaking from Whitey Bulger.
Ok I'm sure I'll get flamed here but Manfro wasn't in the wrong. Look, Joe never once said he was taking the action personally. He let the restaraunt guy and the camera guy think they were placing their bets with Manfro.
He put Manfro in a bad spot with his 'customers'. Joe even went so far as not to collect the debt from the camera guy. Hmmmm wonder what Manfro's other customers thought of that, 'hey Manfro's sick, he's not going to collect our debts'.
Step back and think if this was a legit business and Joe was falsely representing a company he would be libel in a court of law. If that was the case he would be sued by the company and he would lose in court. Business is business and bookies have their own set of 'rules' that you have to obey.
Now I'm sorry but Joe knew exactly what he was doing, he choice to become part of that world and I don't feel sorry for him. Also seriously if people think Manfro who knocked over a few displays and pulled the knetting holding some balls is 'an out of control psycho' then you need to look up the term for psycho.
He wasn't even going after Joe physically, Joe went to grab him and he reacted. Hell Joe should get on the ground and thank god Manfro didn't learn bookmaking from Whitey Bulger.
Wow.. some of these posts are just INSANE.. and I feel that Vallygirl34 comes CLOSEST to the point.. in that they both had their reasons for what they did, but NEITHER of them was in the RIGHT for doing it either.
Example: When you're sick you get someone to fill in for you.. when you DO want to go back to work.. do you WANT to find out the person whom you asked to fill in for you had swooped in BEHIND your back.. and taken over your job? And left your reputation in a SHAMBLES.
That is EXACTLY what Joe did to Manfro.. did he go over the top in expressing his outrage? Yes. Did he mean to knock Joe's tooth out? No. It doesn't excuse the behavior, but its NOT like it was premeditated either. As for the "endearing" I would not go that far.. but its CLEAR that Manfro felt BETRAYED.. and he did still care for Joe, even if he did feel betrayed.
Joe IS a gambler.. much like the idea of an alcoholic. Some people just can NOT be around it. They have a rather addicting personality.. even Joe saw what it was doing to him and knew it was wrong.. He even saw the camera guy was a mirror of himself, and what had been done to him.
So.. I guess it may come down to WHO you like more (clearly Joe as he's written as the MAIN CHARACTER). But both sides had their reasons for what they did..
wow i'm so not bothering to read all this nonsense.. 4 pages and no one really even answered my dang question....
i wanted to know who Joe got his ass kicked. I didn't understand what the problem was... I musta missed something when watching