All you racists upset about a 'black' L
You better cry all your tears now as IMDB is shutting down all of these message boards in 2 weeks. It's probably a good idea, we have had enough of your racism!
shareHmm... People accused me of racism when I said the cast shouldn't be Asian just because the original cast was. It should just reflect the makeup of the United States, since that's where it is set; and noted that if Light or L was black, or Hispanic, then the people complaining of "whitewashing" would still be just as angry.
If they had been Asian, good, but they don't "need" to be, it's an American production, and despite all passionate claims to the contrary, Death Note is not an intrinsically Japanese story.
I don't mind that L is black, in fact, I think it makes no less sense than him being any other ethnicity. There's no reason he shouldn't be black.
Get where I'm coming from?
With all that said, I hope he's a good actor because he looks like a terrible choice. If we're casting a non-white actor, I would have gone with Rami Malek. His Mr. Robot character might as well be L most of the time anyway.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that!
The Makeup in US also includes Asian Americans there is no reason why Light can't be played by an Asian American.
Have you seen Crying Freeman? That movie had a North American Setting and still Cast an Asian American actor. Good film too.
Ask the guards, they'll deny it. Ask the inmates here—they'll cut their tongues out before they talk
The Makeup in US also includes Asian Americans
Well of course it does, but last I checked they make up less than 5% of the total population, and this is an American remake. In Japan they've done remakes of "Ghost" and "Unforgiven" and they all featured Japanese actors in the lead roles. I'll be the first to admit, casting Light as an Asian would have been a good compromise, because then his entire family is Asian; but people were defending the idea with all kinds of dumb logic like "why would they call him Kira, it makes no sense" yeah, it makes no sense anyway: this is America, cutesy "Engrish" nicknames aren't liable to catch on here. What's really funny about it is this bizarre obsession with superficial crap. Nobody can give an explanation for why he "needs" to be called Kira, it's just taken for granted because he is in the anime/manga.
The Netflix series will probably have some Japanese kid speaking his support for "da kira" into his webcam and have it spread like a meme across the internet. That's the kind of dumb contrivance screenwriters concoct to cater to these puritans, and they're usually unsatisfied anyway.
If you knew every position I had on the subject of "whitewashing" you'd probably think I have mixed feelings about it, but I really don't. I know it's real and there are specific criteria that I think have to be met for the complaints to be justified. Doing an American led, American based adaptation without regard for the race of the actors, when it has literally nothing important to do with the story - is not one of them. Although it's better if race is left off the call sheet altogether.
I'm also not even the kind of person who says "diversity for diversity's sake" is necessarily bad. I doubt very seriously Nat Wolff is the best actor they could have seen. But making absolutely sure they cast an Asian for a role that doesn't require it is simply a waste of time.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that! share
"Well of course it does, but last I checked they make up less than 5% of the total population, and this is an American remake"
That 5 percent is Still in the millions range and again,there is no reason Light can't Asian American.
"In Japan they've done remakes of "Ghost" and "Unforgiven" and they all featured Japanese actors in the lead roles."
That's because there is no diversity in Japan it's 99 percent Japanese, then Korean and Chinese are the largest minority groups there. American has a selection of nonwhite actors.
Ask the guards, they'll deny it. Ask the inmates here—they'll cut their tongues out before they talk
That 5 percent is Still in the millions range and again,there is no reason Light can't Asian American.
If you don't want to have a discussion - don't start one.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that! share
And the percentage of Jews is lower than that. So if they could find a Jew, they can find an Asian.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
What does that even mean?
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that!
What was your point in bringing up the population statistics? If it was to say that Asians were hard to find, then it completely fails since the actor they got is of a group with a smaller percentage.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
When you make up points to attack, you might as well argue with yourself.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that!
Alright, so what was it you were trying to say?
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
How is this difficult to understand? They are trying to appeal to the American market, the same way Japanese films are trying to appeal to the Japanese market, you do that by reflecting the demographic makeup of contemporary society. The story of Death Note comes from Japan, but upon adapting it, it is not a Japanese story. There is no reason to depict or produce the story any differently than any other movie they currently have in production. You can cast an Asian actor, but there's no legitimate reason to seek one. The same way they weren't Chinese actors haphazardly littered over The Departed's main cast; once that remake was set in Boston. The statement "they shouldn't make them Asian just because they were the first time around" does not argue against the casting of Asian actors in any capacity, it simply reflects a neutral reality.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that!
That's total racist garbage. People of color DO "appeal" to the American market and have for a very long time. One was even elected president. Twice. Electoral AND popular vote.
And this is not just "any other movie". It is specifically based on and licensed from material that has a fanbase who want to see it done right.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
That's total racist garbage. People of color DO "appeal" to the American market
Oh my god, you're an idiot. Capable of no amount of nuance whatsoever. Conversation over.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that! share
Just what "nuance" do you think you showed? You tried to dress it up better, but it's same old "whites are racist" crap that so many others have spewed.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
Just what "nuance" do you think you showed?
...I can't decide if this is more like talking to children, or space aliens...
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that! share
bioparadoxous point is (Which you are purposefully ignoring) was that casting an asian actor for L is contrived and we can all tell its contrived because had the ethnicity of the actor been chosen at random there would only be a 1 in 20 chance of that person being Asian there fore meaning the person was with a 95% probability only choosen because of the fact they were asian.
shareThen by that logic EVERY casting choice is contrived. Actors looking as they do is the reason they get cast. There’s nothing random about it.
shareAnd the percentage of Jews is lower than that. So if they could find a Jew, they can find an Asian.
That's some selective reasoning...
1. Jews can be considered Caucasians
2. You can't compare one ethnicity to a collection of many ethnicities. At least compare the Jewish and Japanese populations (percentage of Japanese is lower so you would be wrong). share
So what if they can? If the point in bringing up the statistic was to say that those in that group are somehow hard to find, the fact that people of a smaller group aren't scarce at all shows that idea to be completely false.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
So what if they can?
Means that they are actually the easiest to find because whites make up majority of US population..
You unfairly isolated a subgroup of the white population to depict a small community while not doing the same for Asians. I get the sentiment but you were being selective.
And again, Japanese is smaller than the Jewish population... share
No, they aren't. Jews white or otherwise are not the majority of the US population.
The poster I was replying to was the one who chose to put all Asians in the percentage. Take it up with them.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
The poster I was replying to was the one who chose to put all Asians in the percentage.
That's how ethnicities are divided by United States census... take it up with America.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that! share
Yes they are.. If Jews are considered white then white people consist of majority of US population..
Exactly, he chose to put all Asians in the percentage, so your reply should've put all whites in the percentage. But then that wouldn't have worked for your argument so you manipulated the variables to depict a smaller group..
Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.
"They" meaning Jews, so no they aren't. Many gay and transgendered people are white, but gays and transgenders do not make up a majority of the population.
That would make zero sense whatsoever. The whole point was to bring up a group with a smaller percentage.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
You are overcomplicating this. If a casting director is looking for a male actor, someone who looks like Nat Wolff (who we've established can be considered white) are the easiest to find.. because white people are the majority of population. Do you still not understand the logic?
The whole point is to compare the easiness of finding white vs asian actors.. and Asians are the smaller group no matter how you spin it..
We are not discussing whites in general, but a specific subgroup. Same with LGBT people, who also are a smaller percentage than Asians but also not difficult to find.
No that wasn't the point, and again that would make absolutely no sense to do. People in groups smaller than Asians are not at all hard to find, THAT is the point.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
Yes we are discussing whites in general. It's always been "White people are statistically much, much easier to find than asians". The "specific subgroups" is what you developed afterwards to put a spin on it.
The point made by the original poster is that the Asian population (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc) is only 5% of US which is much smaller than the white majority (German, Irish, Jewish, etc).You could have replied by suggesting that 5% is still a lot of asians but instead decided to manipulate the variables in an unfair and biased way.
At the end of the day, Nat Wolff is still a white actor, so nope, he's still not harder to find than an asian as you incorrectly suggested.
No we are not. That's YOU trying to spin this and misdirect the conversation.
Saying "that's still a lot of Asians" doesn't show anything. Pointing out that many in smaller groups are out there working illustrates it much more clearly.
At the end of the day, Nat Wolff is still a Jew, so yes, he is harder to find than an Asian.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
This actually kind of proves how dumb the point was in the first place, they didn't pick Nat Wolff because he's a Jew. They picked him for the same reason the other guy said, they were looking for a white dude, and he's white.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that!
Makes no difference. If they did, there would be no shortage.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
Oh c'mon man. Your argument is weak and you know it.
By addressing that 5% you could've argued that there are still millions of Asians to choose from, therefore making a case that while asians are harder to find than whites, it's still not that bad. It would've been a much fairer point than you breaking down the one group but not the other. All that shows is that you are biased.
That is such a silly interpretation.. Do you seriously believe that Nat Wolff being Jewish is what got him casted and not the fact that he's white? You are so not getting the big picture. If you want to play that game, the Japanese population is roughly 5 times smaller than the Jewish population. So it's 5x easier to find Nat Wolff than if they were looking for a Japanese actor... you are still wrong.
That's rather vague and still not illustrating the point. And you clearly don't know what the word "biased" even means.
That has nothing to do with anything. Same as how if he were gay that probably would not factor into why he was chosen, but still means that he is part of a groups that is smaller than Asians.
And so Governor Devlin, because even the cost of freedom can be too high, I REFUSE your pardon!
[deleted]
I know what it means and it's proven by the fact that your arguments are actually biased. You know, it's ok to admit you made a mistake. If you keep militantly defending what's clearly disproven, you'll just end up losing credibility.
That has everything to do with it. If Nat Wolff was chosen on the basis that he's white, it means that statistically people who look like him are by far the easiest to find. You are making it seem like he's harder to find than an asian.
Again, subgroup-wise, Jewish population is 5x bigger than Japanese. So you are wrong in every scenario.
I know what it means and it's proven by the fact that your arguments are actually biased. You know, it's ok to admit you made a mistake. If you keep militantly defending what's clearly been disproven, you'll just end up losing credibility.
That has everything to do with it. If Nat Wolff was chosen on the basis that he's white, it means that statistically people who look like him are by far the easiest to find. You are making it seem like he's harder to find than an asian.
Again, subgroup-wise, Jewish population is 5x bigger than Japanese. So you are wrong in every scenario.
So what if they can? If the point in bringing up the statistic was to say that those in that group are somehow hard to find, the fact that people of a smaller group aren't scarce at all shows that idea to be completely false.
No one said its hard to find an asian, On the contrary it is being argued that if you look for an asian in the united states your bound to find one. Which is our point exactly the only reason L would be an asian is because some one intentionaly looked for one in casting cause had this been a random selection you would only have a 1 in 20 chance of finding an asian. Thus we know its a contrived choice due to the fact that the original L from the japanese story was shock Japanese. You think casting departments don't have requirments like "Lets get an asian kid around early college age".
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It’s “contrived” to search for an actor who looks like a preexisting character from a visual medium to play said character? Ok, then so it is. The hell is your point?
shareThe Makeup in US also includes Asian Americans there is no reason why Light can't be played by an Asian American
There is no reason why Light can't be played by any race. You are just as biased as the people you accuse. share
By any race you mean white? You say any race but it's always a white actor
Ask the guards, they'll deny it. Ask the inmates here—they'll cut their tongues out before they talk
Um no.. that's not always the case. Are you seriously shocked that whites get the most roles in Hollywood films?
shareYeah it is always the case look how many nonwhite roles go to White Actors
Ask the guards, they'll deny it. Ask the inmates here—they'll cut their tongues out before they talk
Yeah it is always the case
You do know what started this thread, right?... 😕
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You mean L being played by a black actor? L is not the main character and that race change was done because Light is being played by a white actor.
Ask the guards, they'll deny it. Ask the inmates here—they'll cut their tongues out before they talk
L is equally as important as Light, and to say otherwise demonstrates ignorance.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that!
Never said L was not important,but Light is the lead
Ask the guards, they'll deny it. Ask the inmates here—they'll cut their tongues out before they talk
Never said L was not important,but Light is the lead
I said as important. When two characters are of equal importance, they are "co-leads"
Thus: L would be no less of a leading role than Light would - in the context of the original story, at least.
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Light is still the lead and is recognized as the main character
Ask the guards, they'll deny it. Ask the inmates here—they'll cut their tongues out before they talk
So your strategy is "deny reality"
We revert back to my original point:
L is equally as important as Light, and to say otherwise demonstrates ignorance.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that! share
So your strategy is "deny reality"
Look who's talking.
If you knew Death Note you would know that Light is the main character. L is not and he is not "equally as important as Light" because L dies in the manga and its anime adaptation yet the rest of the story goes on without him.
Hiring nonwhites in lesser roles has always been a part of covering up whitewashing because not doing so makes the racism too obvious. Dragonball Evolution did that by hiring Asian actors in the supporting cast to help cover up Son Goku's whitewashing. This Death Note movie is a racist whitewash and it continues Hollywood's racism against nonwhite Americans that has been going on since the start of Hollywood. Your nonsense is nothing more than an attempt at covert white supremacy by trying to justify a racist institution with half-baked logic and transparent bigotry that you think is going to be accepted if you word it as if you are an authority.
Go ahead and type away your silly non-responses where you try to divert from any argument that proves you wrong like a child stomping away because they didn't get their way. You've been debunked on this board before by me and you acted the same way: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1241317/board/thread/250613133?d=250937120#250937120 And spare us your childish meaningless threats of putting people on your "ignore list" which is not only dumb because anyone else can read people debunking your BS but also because there is less than 2 weeks on this board anyway.
I remember you from the Mortal Kombat Rebirth boards and the Mortal Kombat Legacy boards. Even when I agreed with your criticism on them, you still acted like the biggest baby around about anything. Video game culture sure has produced some real man-sized babies especially ones that think they figured everything out but are too stupid to realize that they have no idea what they are talking about. share
Look who's talking.
You?: I'd rather not, frankly.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that! share
Oh, I didn't even read your whole post before, but skimming some of the other paragraphs I see you're just a dumb little crying baby with a grudge - on the internet? - go figure....
And I mean, that ignore list is only for people who are overly abrasive or don't have an argument, but since your "argument" is "I don't like you, or the way you do things" I am starting to wonder why you shouldn't be on there.
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There's no such thing as the establishment. Everyone knows that!
Blacks are only comprised of 13.5% of the population. over 60% of the population is white get over it of course there are more whites represented in hollywood films. I got something for you thenewnexus 14% of our population is Hispanic/Latin but theres black actors in movies then us but you don't see me pissing and crying like you about it.
I'm not sure the Japanese licensors would have wanted Light to be Asian-American - from their perspective "Death Note" is supposed to be a foreign adaptation and they probably would have wanted Light to be visibly foreign (White).
It is a good point that Seattle has a lot of Asian Americans, so would have made Mia Asian-American - Since Watari was going to be Japanese (I don't know if he's a Japanese citizen or Japanese American in the US film), I would have made Mia of another heritage or mix (Chinese/Korean/Filipina and/or Vietnamese) and/or adopted by a white family (think Stephanie Vandergosh from Better Luck Tomorrow).