Swedish VS American film adaptations
Can someone explain what are the similarities and differences between the Swedish original film and the American adaptation, please?
shareCan someone explain what are the similarities and differences between the Swedish original film and the American adaptation, please?
You must mean the British adaptation since LMI was made by Hammer Films.
The two movies are based on the same story but it is told through the lens of a very different set of characters.
Depends on how much you want spoiled beyond that.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The boy character is a loner in LTROI and a lonely boy in LMI. Not the same thing at all. One is desperate for companionship and spies on neighbors (LMI) and one barely even notices things outside his window (LTROI).
Per the two directors, the vampire character is a castrated male who is a "very old woman in a 12 year old body" in LTROI and a 12 year old girl stuck at that age in LMI. Again very different.
The caretaker is a recent acquaintance of the vampire in LTROI and a lifelong companion in LMI. Not nearly the same thing.
The "villain" is an obsessed friend of one of the vampire's victims who knows he is a vampire and seeks to destroy him in LTROI and an obsessed cop who thinks he is rescuing a little girl in LMI. Totally different motivations.
I liken it to different Presidents. Bush and Obama are both Presidents but putting them into the same basic story would still turn out pretty different. share
Similarities? It has been a long while since I saw the Swedish one.
Northern/Southern latitudes where ponds and creeks get safely frozen solid for some winter sports excursions.
A town large enough hospitals and apartments are necessarily vertical, yet small enough there is a swimming pool that serves both a school and a community.
Student-teacher ratio is far too high.
___________
Est modus in rebus sunt certi denique fines quos ultra citraque nequit consistere rectum Goldilocks
"very old woman in a 12 year old body" - Harpo
Except that is not true at all. I see you have that in quotation marks, who are you quoting? Tomas? Could you supply the rest of that quote please?
Here's a quote from John, from the commentary...
"So basically Eli isn't a 200 hundred year old inside the body of a 12 year old. Eli is a 12 year old who has lived for a very long time"...and another...
"So Eli is not really shifting... or tricking Oskar, not being an old person. Because Eli isn't."Also, from Eli
"I'm twelve. Though I've been 12 for a long time."
.
- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story share
Except that is not true at all. I see you have that in quotation marks, who are you quoting? Tomas? Could you supply the rest of that quote please?
Yep...just the director of the film itself. He was talking about why he hired Lina to play the part.
"Also I wanted the vampire to be a very old (emphasis TA) woman in a 12 year old body. And I think we found her...Lina...who played that...she has...she could be my grandmother or something, y'know?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqNo5akbMjo&feature=related
He is the one who replaced Lina's face with an older face at times after all.
I realize John has a different view of it for his book, which is why Reeves cites the book when he talks about this subject. share
I'm presuming you listened to all of the interview? So you heard the bit about Eli and Oskar being two halves of the same character? Does that mean Oskar is also a very old woman in a twelve year old body?
Tomas was talking about stage presence and character traits when he said "a very old woman" in regards to Eli, he didn't want Eli to be obviously childish. Eli is a boy in this film, why would Tomas state that he wanted an old female vampire in literal terms when it was clearly not the case ... he wouldn't, he didn't.
The older actress was used to convey a sense of many years of experience, not literal or mental age.
John was talking about the film, not his book, that's why I told you that his words were from the commentary.
.
- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story
I'm presuming you listened to all of the interview? So you heard the bit about Eli and Oskar being two halves of the same character? Does that mean Oskar is also a very old woman in a twelve year old body?
Maybe you should ask him why he wanted Eli to be a very old woman in a 12 year old body? Because that's his exact words.
Two halves of the same character is obviously the younger half and the older half in Alfredson's view. He didn't say they were the same character. It's his words so take it up with him. "A very old woman in a 12 year old body" is very specific about his view of the character. There is no mistaking what that means. He even emphasized the word "old".
John was talking about the film, not his book, that's why I told you that his words were from the commentary.
I agree that JAL has a different view from TA. That's why JAL is the one who said it instead of TA and also why Reeves took JAL's point of view on the subject. share
Ah, I get it.
When it helps you to take things literally, you will. When taking things literally is inconvenient, then you will interpret.
Still the same disingenuous Harpo. I was foolish to expect anything else.
.
- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story
Ah, I get it.
When it helps you to take things literally, you will. When taking things literally is inconvenient, then you will interpret.
Still the same disingenuous Harpo. I was foolish to expect anything else.
No, I'm just taking him at his word. He didn't accidentally say that. He was extremely specific in his description of the Eli character.
"Also I wanted the vampire to be a very old woman in a 12 year old body. And I think we found her...Lina...who played that...she has...she could be my grandmother or something, y'know?" He even emphasized the word "old" and even added the "grandmother" part to further emphasize it.
He made it as clear as possible that he was following up what "two sides of the same character" meant with the "also". This was additional information about the Eli character. There is nothing hard about it unless you just don't want to believe what he said. share
I'll point out again that Eli is a boy in this film, so why would Tomas want a male vampire to be a woman? Could it be that he wasn't being literal, and that he was talking about certain qualities that Lina could bring to the character?
You also have to consider that Tomas himself has stated that his English isn't as good as he needs it to be. So much so that while he was making Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy he had problems getting some of his ideas over to the actors. He even resorted to acting it out himself so that they could see what he wanted because he felt he couldn't explain it adequately. This was three years after the release of Let The Right One In and its interviews, so bear this in mind.
.
- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story
I'll point out again that Eli is a boy in this film, so why would Tomas want a male vampire to be a woman? Could it be that he wasn't being literal, and that he was talking about certain qualities that Lina could bring to the character?
I agree 100%. Obviously TA didn't mean Eli was an old woman since Eli is male. He was talking about the mental age of the character.
You also have to consider that Tomas himself has stated that his English isn't as good as he needs it to be. So much so that while he was making Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy he had problems getting some of his ideas over to the actors. He even resorted to acting it out himself so that they could see what he wanted because he felt he couldn't explain it adequately. This was three years after the release of Let The Right One In and its interviews, so bear this in mind.
That's why he took his time and carefully emphasized what he meant and then backed up "very old woman in a 12 year old body" with "grandmother". He certainly wasn't saying the opposite of what he really meant twice. He obviously knows what "very old woman" means in English. share
This is also from the commentary. A response from Tomas to John's statement quoted earlier...
JAL: So basically Eli isn't a 200 hundred year old inside the body of a 12 year old. Eli is a 12 year old who has lived for a very long time.That was Tomas, agreeing with John that Eli is a "status quo character", that Eli "...isn't a 200 hundred year old inside the body of a 12 year old. Eli is a 12 year old who has lived for a very long time."
TA: A status quo character.
JAL: Yeah.
So there you have it, Tomas sees Eli as a person who has been mentally twelve for a very long time. Tomas was speculating about the character traits of Eli, not the physical or mental reality when he mentioned his "very old woman", and Lina could pull that off because she [Lina, not Eli] could be his Grandmother (even though Lina herself was only twelve). Or do you believe that Tomas thought Lina was really as old as his Grandmother?
"He certainly wasn't saying the opposite of what he really meant twice" - Harpo
Shame on you, I didn't claim he was saying the opposite, stop putting words into my mouth. It's like you've never heard of nuance. Tomas thought that sentence explained what he had in his head, but it really didn't. When someone speaks in a second language, with a self confessed lack of intimate knowledge of said language, you really shouldn't be taking their words too literally.
.
- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story share
That was Tomas, agreeing with John that Eli is a "status quo character", that Eli "...isn't a 200 hundred year old inside the body of a 12 year old. Eli is a 12 year old who has lived for a very long time."
So there you have it, Tomas sees Eli as a person who has been mentally twelve for a very long time. Tomas was speculating about the character traits of Eli, not the physical or mental reality when he mentioned his "very old woman", and Lina could pull that off because she [Lina, not Eli] could be his Grandmother (even though Lina herself was only twelve). Or do you believe that Tomas thought Lina was really as old as his Grandmother?
You've tried that one before.
That's JAL's statement. As I said, they don't see it the same. You want to believe TA thinks the same so you turn his question into "agreement". Or did you not notice that JAL answers his question with the "Yeah"? I noticed that. 😀
Of course he would want to cast an actress who could play "a very old woman in a 12 year old body". Why would that surprise you? Why would he need her to do that if the character was supposed to be mentally 12?
Kinda funny how you put so much stock in his question to JAL upon hearing JAL's view but are able to completely dismiss his carefully worded description of the Eli character in his own solo interview. Did you not notice that he even went to the trouble to actually replace Lina's face with an older actress in the movie itself?
I think TA took more from the scene in the book where Eli is described as "adult" than the scene where Eli describes himself as a child. (JAL played it both ways in the book)
Shame on you, I didn't claim he was saying the opposite, stop putting words into my mouth. It's like you've never heard of nuance. Tomas thought that sentence explained what he had in his head, but it really didn't. When someone speaks in a second language, with a self confessed lack of intimate knowledge of said language, you really shouldn't be taking their words too literally.
Except when you want me to put stock in his question to JAL in English...then you think he has full grasp of the language, right? lol...
So you are now claiming that TA doesn't know what "grandmother" or "very old" means in English? Wow...when you want to believe something, a person can go to extremes!
So instead of saying Eli is a "very old woman in a 12 year old body", you are claiming he meant the opposite of that. And of course he also doesn't know that "grandmother" refers to an old woman either. Are you sure he knows the word "status quo"? 😝 share
"That's JAL's statement. As I said, they don't see it the same. You want to believe TA thinks the same so you turn his question into "agreement". Or did you not notice that JAL answers his question with the "Yeah"? I noticed that." - Harpo
I know that is John's statement, I credited him with it, can you not read?
Listen to the commentary. Tomas is not asking a question, he's confirming John's words. If you were to actually listen to him, you would see that it is not a question. John's "Yeah" is just further agreement.
"Of course he would want to cast an actress who could play "a very old woman in a 12 year old body". Why would that surprise you? Why would he need her to do that if the character was supposed to be mentally 12?" - Harpo
I've already addressed that, maybe you only skimmed my post? Eli is mentally twelve but has some character traits that one would usually associate with older people, presumably because he has lived an isolated life for a very long time and is out of touch with modern societal norms. So Lina also having that quality makes her a perfect choice to play the part of someone like Eli.
"Kinda funny how you put so much stock in his question to JAL upon hearing JAL's view but are able to completely dismiss his carefully worded description of the Eli character in his own solo interview. Did you not notice that he even went to the trouble to actually replace Lina's face with an older actress in the movie itself?" - Harpo
He didn't ask John a question. When someone is aware of their lack of proficiency in a language, of course they are going to word their answers carefully, that doesn't automatically mean that they are going to be accurately voicing their thoughts. Being careful is not the same as getting it right.
Here is the commentary for the scene where Eli drinks Oskar's blood from the floor
TA: Here you see Eli for a short glimpse how she maybe would have looked if she had been her proper age. I think she's... Well the timelessness shows when she's in between human and in between being this monster.As I have pointed out before, what Tomas is trying to get across is Eli's timelessness. Again, you are being too literal.
"I think TA took more from the scene in the book where Eli is described as "adult" than the scene where Eli describes himself as a child. (JAL played it both ways in the book)" - Harpo
Eli is never described as adult in the book, only his mannerisms. John did not play it "both ways" in the book, he went to great lengths to leave the reader in no doubt that Eli is mentally twelve years old. What are you trying to pull?
"Except when you want me to put stock in his question to JAL in English...then you think he has full grasp of the language, right? lol..." - Harpo
It wasn't a question. "Status quo" isn't exclusively English, it was originally Latin. Rome conquered Europe and were in charge for a while. They left quite a few of their words behind when they were deposed, pretty much everyone in Europe knows what "status quo" means as it has been subsumed into their own languages. Have a guess at the Swedish for "Status quo". It's status quo.
"So you are now claiming that TA doesn't know what "grandmother" or "very old" means in English? Wow...when you want to believe something, a person can go to extremes!" - Harpo
That's not what I said at all, stop trying to misrepresent what I wrote.
.
- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story share
I know that is John's statement, I credited him with it, can you not read?
Listen to the commentary. Tomas is not asking a question, he's confirming John's words. If you were to actually listen to him, you would see that it is not a question. John's "Yeah" is just further agreement.
Sure it is. Since TA never says anything like that in his interviews that's obviously JAL's view. As you put more stock in that little "status quo" than TA's carefully worded and very specific description of Eli's character that he made sure to back up with another description. You REALLY want to believe that, so much that you'll tell yourself that TA somehow doesn't understand English while he carefully described Eli but knows exactly what he is talking about as he answers a long description of JAL's feelings about the character.
I've already addressed that, maybe you only skimmed my post? Eli is mentally twelve but has some character traits that one would usually associate with older people, presumably because he has lived an isolated life for a very long time and is out of touch with modern societal norms. So Lina also having that quality makes her a perfect choice to play the part of someone like Eli.
Except he didn't JUST say something about her being grandmotherly...he prefaced that with a very specific description about her "A very old woman in a 12 year old body". But he doesn't understand English there, does he?
TA: Here you see Eli for a short glimpse how she maybe would have looked if she had been her proper age. I think she's... Well the timelessness shows when she's in between human and in between being this monster.As I have pointed out before, what Tomas is trying to get across is Eli's timelessness. Again, you are being too literal.
And you are ignoring that he pointed out what he thinks her "proper age" is. Obviously not 12.
Maybe "status quo" doesn't mean what you are pretending it means here. Maybe that's "too literal" since he never actually says what JAL says about the character....instead he says the exact opposite. Literally the exact opposite.
Eli is never described as adult in the book, only his mannerisms. John did not play it "both ways" in the book, he went to great lengths to leave the reader in no doubt that Eli is mentally twelve years old. What are you trying to pull?
What am I trying to pull? Huh?
I'm "pulling" from what is in the novel. You certainly don't convince me you are the ultimate expert on the novel...you miss quite a few thing in there which don't support your personal interpretations.
"She didn't keep her gaze glued to the floor as children often did in a foreign environment." "The girl blew her nose, and dried her eyes in a very...adult way."
JAL even made the character pause to carefully emphasis the word "adult". I guess JAL doesn't understand English now either? If a person were reading it they could easily take more stock in what another character thought of the way Eli acted than what Eli claimed to be in a conversation....so it could easily be taken either way.
It wasn't a question. "Status quo" isn't exclusively English, it was originally Latin. Rome conquered Europe and were in charge for a while. They left quite a few of their words behind when they were deposed, pretty much everyone in Europe knows what "status quo" means as it has been subsumed into their own languages. Have a guess at the Swedish for "Status quo". It's .
You say it wasn't a question even though JAL follows it up with a confirmation "Yeah". That's just you wanting to believe and discarding anything which doesn't support your belief.
Still doesn't change what TA actually says in his own solo interview when he sits there and very carefully describes his view of the character. He wasn't saying the opposite of what he meant by accident.
That's not what I said at all, stop trying to misrepresent what I wrote.
Oh of course not. You want to say TA doesn't understand English to the extent that he said the opposite of what he meant, but don't want to say he doesn't understand the meaning of "very old woman in a 12 year old body" and "grandmother".
share
This post boils down to you misrepresenting what I wrote, misrepresenting what John wrote, and misrepresenting what Tomas said.
I have never said that Tomas doesn't understand English, I have said that he was certainly not proficient at that time.
"She didn't keep her gaze glued to the floor as children often did in a foreign environment." "The girl blew her nose, and dried her eyes in a very...adult way." HarpoYou've supplied a quote describing Eli's mannerisms. Now supply a quote where John describes him as an "adult". Eli is seen as a girl by many characters, including the nurse you just quoted, does that mean Eli really is a girl? Come on, be honest.
Listen to the commentary, you will hear that what Tomas says is not a question.
.
- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story share
This post boils down to you misrepresenting what I wrote, misrepresenting what John wrote, and misrepresenting what Tomas said.
I have never said that Tomas doesn't understand English, I have said that he was certainly not proficient at that time.
I posted TA's exact words. They mean what they mean and they are very specific. You are the one who is trying to change the meaning of what he said.
..By blaming his English....while you claim you aren't saying he doesn't understand English. O...kay? lol....
You've supplied a quote describing Eli's mannerisms. Now supply a quote where John describes him as an "adult". Eli is seen as a girl by many characters, including the nurse you just quoted, does that mean Eli really is a girl? Come on, be honest.
No...I supplied a quote from a passage that JAL wrote describing how another character saw Eli acting like an adult. Perhaps you believe he put that part in the book for nothing? I tend to think an author puts something in a novel for a reason however. Do you think Eli acts like a child but JAL put that in by accident?
The scene from the book which counters it is the one where Eli describes himself to Oskar....which could be accurate or could be a deception. The thoughts of the character viewing Eli are a valid description of how Eli acts. Really comparing those two things, the more valid passage is the view of the objective character rather than the words of Eli...who may or may not have an agenda.
Obviously Eli acts like a girl for deceptive reasons. If you think he is also acting adult to fool people that could explain it...but I don't see the benefit so this isn't the same thing. He would benefit far more by acting like a child.
Listen to the commentary, you will hear that what Tomas says is not a question.
You mean the part where JAL goes on and on about his view of the character while TA stays silent?
TA obviously feels differently about it. He said so himself in his interview. Not surprising he wouldn't want to get into a debate with JAL on the commentary track. share
"I posted TA's exact words" - Harpo
Yes, and you are taking the "old" part literally, whilst taking the "woman" part with a pinch of convenient salt. Dishonest.
"..By blaming his English....while you claim you aren't saying he doesn't understand English." - Harpo
Understanding and being proficient are not the same thing. Just as someone who has played guitar for a couple of years alone in their bedroom isn't going to be as proficient as someone who has played to a paying live audience for twenty years. They can both be described as being able to play guitar. I know this metaphor will fall on deaf ears because you really really don't want to concede this point. Too bad you have to be dishonest about this as well.
"No...I supplied a quote from a passage that JAL wrote describing how another character saw Eli acting like an adult." - Harpo
One character seeing another acting like an adult is not the authoritative voice of the author stating that Eli is an adult, as you try to paint it. This same character, the nurse, also saw Eli as a girl but that is conveniently not important to you. What a surprise.
"The thoughts of the character viewing Eli are a valid description of how Eli acts" - Harpo
Yes, how he acts, his mannerisms, not his mental age. Lina was described as being almost like Tomas' grandmother, but we know he was describing her mannerisms not her mental age.
"The scene from the book which counters it is the one where Eli describes himself to Oskar....which could be accurate or could be a deception ... Really comparing those two things, the more valid passage is the view of the objective character rather than the words of Eli...who may or may not have an agenda." - Harpo
Regardless of what you say, the nurse is hardly an objective character. She is prone to flights of fancy, making up complete and fantastical life histories and personal scenarios of the people that pass through the hospital reception. Add to that, she was in Eli's thrall, or glamour, whatever you want to call it, desperately searching her mind for something she could give to Eli. Not objective at all. Also, the nurse was not a psychologist, she couldn't determine Eli's mental age, just describe his mannerisms.
Eli doesn't have an agenda, as far as Oskar is concerned.
For a few seconds Oskar saw through Eli’s eyes. And what he saw was … himself. Only much better, more handsome, stronger than what he thought of himself. Seen with love. For a few seconds.
"Obviously Eli acts like a girl for deceptive reasons" - Harpo
Eli doesn't act like a girl.
"You mean the part where JAL goes on and on about his view of the character while TA stays silent?" - Harpo
Four sentences is hardly going "on and on". Tomas' silence for those thirty seconds of John's monologuing would more convincingly be described as complicit agreement than disagreement. But seriously, you're clutching at straws if you think Tomas stayed silent for any other reason than they wanted to produce a commentary track where they weren't constantly talking over each other.
" Not surprising he wouldn't want to get into a debate with JAL on the commentary track." - Harpo
This point is moot, considering they were recording a commentary track, not a debate show.
What were you even trying to suggest with that? Person A doesn't agree with person B about subject C and the fact that they don't debate proves it, somehow? Really?
Listen to the commentary.
.
- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story share
Yes, and you are taking the "old" part literally, whilst taking the "woman" part with a pinch of convenient salt. Dishonest.
I certainly know what "old" means when someone says ""Also I wanted the vampire to be a very old woman in a 12 year old body. And I think we found her...Lina...who played that...she has...she could be my grandmother or something, y'know?"
That's not remotely vague or ambiguous about how TA sees Eli's mental age. He could not possibly be more clear on that subject.
And does TA even see Eli as male? He didn't put anything in the movie to indicate that. If you read the book you'll understand the crotch shot, but that's not going to suggest anything to anyone else. At the very least Eli is supposed to come off as female for most of the movie so of course he would couch it in those terms "woman" and "grandmother". There is no dishonest there other than your refusal to accept TA's own words while putting all emphasis on JAL's description while TA sat there and listened. They said the exact opposite thing about Eli when TA was stating his own opinion.
Understanding and being proficient are not the same thing. Just as someone who has played guitar for a couple of years alone in their bedroom isn't going to be as proficient as someone who has played to a paying live audience for twenty years. They can both be described as being able to play guitar. I know this metaphor will fall on deaf ears because you really really don't want to concede this point. Too bad you have to be dishonest about this as well.
So...are you claiming TA didn't know what he was saying or not? You seem to be trying to say that without saying it. He would have to not understand English at all to describe Eli that carefully and say the exact opposite of what he really meant. If he's that bad, then he also couldn't have known what JAL was saying in the commentary...but I notice you want to give him full credit for understanding English there. 😂
One character seeing another acting like an adult is not the authoritative voice of the author stating that Eli is an adult, as you try to paint it. This same character, the nurse, also saw Eli as a girl but that is conveniently not important to you. What a surprise.
Ok...I'm listening...why would JAL put that in the book? Why include a character who observes that Eli is acting like an adult? Are you suggesting that character included itself in the novel without JAL knowing about it?
I didn't say anything about it not being important that other characters see Eli as a girl. That's what Eli wants people to think...why wouldn't JAL put that in the book too? I can't think of a reason why Eli would act adult to fool people though. There is no benefit for him. Plus...I don't think a child can fake acting like an adult anyway. But a child can certainly pretend to be the opposite gender. You're reaching here.
Yes, how he acts, his mannerisms, not his mental age. Lina was described as being almost like Tomas' grandmother, but we know he was describing her mannerisms not her mental age.
Again...what purpose would it serve to point out that Eli acts like an adult?
I know that TA was talking about the way Lina acted. Obviously acting is about mannerisms...not the mental age of the actor. He wanted an actress who could convincingly portray a very old woman in a 12 year old body. That's why he pointed out they "found her".
Although Lina didn't convince you very well so maybe she isn't the actress TA claimed. But that was his stated goal.
Regardless of what you say, the nurse is hardly an objective character. She is prone to flights of fancy, making up complete and fantastical life histories and personal scenarios of the people that pass through the hospital reception. Add to that, she was in Eli's thrall, or glamour, whatever you want to call it, desperately searching her mind for something she could give to Eli. Not objective at all. Also, the nurse was not a psychologist, she couldn't determine Eli's mental age, just describe his mannerisms.
You keep acting like that character inserted itself into the novel. JAL put her there and included her thoughts for a reason. He could have had her think anything...but he chose "She didn't keep her gaze glued to the floor as children often did in a foreign environment." "The girl blew her nose, and dried her eyes in a very...adult way."
There is a reason why he chose that...to tell the reader that Eli appears adult to other characters.
Eli doesn't have an agenda, as far as Oskar is concerned.
Agreed. But as far Eli is concerned....we don't know. And it is his words.
Four sentences is hardly going "on and on". Tomas' silence for those thirty seconds of John's monologuing would more convincingly be described as complicit agreement than disagreement. But seriously, you're clutching at straws if you think Tomas stayed silent for any other reason than they wanted to produce a commentary track where they weren't constantly talking over each other.
Four sentences is all?
399 00:57:51,284 –> 00:57:58,484 JAL: It’s also important because this isn’t… this is also explained in the original story but not here that Eli is forever freezed in the body…
400 00:57:58,484 –> 00:58:05,969 JAL: …frozen in the year of a 12 year old. And also in Eli’s mind – that Eli has to sleep for long periods of time…
401 00:58:06,517 –> 00:58:13,223 JAL: …and when he wakes up again he has forgotten everything he has learned. He has the memories but he hasn’t really grown.
402 00:58:13,519 –> 00:58:21,116 JAL: So basically Eli isn’t a 200 hundred year old inside the body of a 12
year old. Eli is a 12 year old who has lived for a very long time.
403 00:58:22,286 –> 00:58:24,828 TA: A status quo character.
JAL: Yeah.
404 00:58:25,831 –> 00:58:33,491 JAL: So Eli is not really shifting… or tricking Oskar, not being an old person. Because Eli isn’t.
TA then changes the subject. He had nothing to add. This is all JAL's view of Eli and he is carefully explaining it to TA. Note that JAL feels compelled to explain it because it's NOT explained in the movie? This is all news to TA as he sits there during JAL monologue.
Something else TA wouldn't do on a commentary track is get into an argument with JAL over that subject. Although according to you TA may not fully understand what JAL is saying. 😎
The reality is that TA is not the one talking here and you are clinging on to two words and making excuses for why TA didn't join the conversation while completely dismissing TA's careful description of Eli in his own interview. share
"I certainly know what "old" means when someone says ""Also I wanted the vampire to be a very old woman in a 12 year old body. And I think we found her...Lina...who played that...she has...she could be my grandmother or something, y'know?"
That's not remotely vague or ambiguous about how TA sees Eli's mental age. He could not possibly be more clear on that subject." - Harpo
So you think Tomas is of the opinion that Lina has a mental age of 70? Got it.
"And does TA even see Eli as male?" - Harpo
Yes.
"He didn't put anything in the movie to indicate that" - Harpo
Remnants of Elias' scrotum are seen during the crotch shot.
"At the very least Eli is supposed to come off as female for most of the movie" - Harpo
No, Eli's gender is irrelevant in the film. Just because characters describe him as a "girl" doesn't mean he is one.
"So...are you claiming TA didn't know what he was saying or not? You seem to be trying to say that without saying it. He would have to not understand English at all to describe Eli that carefully and say the exact opposite of what he really meant." - Harpo
He was inaccurate when trying to explain a concept in a language he was not proficient at. How is that so hard for you to understand?
"Ok...I'm listening...why would JAL put that in the book? Why include a character who observes that Eli is acting like an adult?" - Harpo
First of all, Eli wasn't described as "acting like an adult", don't lie, he was described as acting in "a very ... adult way." Notice the pause? The nurse had to think about it, it was not an obvious thing. You're trying to make it into more than it is. You are failing to appreciate the subtle discord that John is trying to convey in Eli's actions.
Eli blew his nose and dried his eyes in "a very ... adult way." That's it, that is the extent of this comparison.
What Maud demonstrates in these scenes is that Eli can generate feelings of confusion in people that unsettles them and makes them easy to manipulate. No matter how strange Eli's manner of blowing his nose was Maud still ended up believing that Eli was a poor mistreated girl that needed her help. Mission accomplished.
"I didn't say anything about it not being important that other characters see Eli as a girl. That's what Eli wants people to think" - Harpo
Wrong, that is not what Eli wants people to think. Eli takes advantage of that, of course, but most of the time Eli wears trousers. What Eli wants is for people to believe that he needs their help, for whatever reason they come up with.
"TA then changes the subject. He had nothing to add" - Harpo
They were recording a commentary track, in real time. Tomas commented on what was happening on screen because it helps if their comments largely keep time with the film.
" Note that JAL feels compelled to explain it because it's NOT explained in the movie" - Harpo
Not being explained in the film isn't the same as not being part of the film. They also didn't explain the reasons the bullies hated Oskar but that was still part of the film.
"This is all news to TA as he sits there during JAL monologue." - Harpo
Are you forgetting that Tomas was intimately involved in the production of the screenplay? This was not news to Tomas.
.
- - - - - - - - - - -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE
http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story share
So you think Tomas is of the opinion that Lina has a mental age of 70? Got it.
You don't get it actually. She's an actor capable of playing a "very old woman in a 12 year old body". Actors are hired based on their ability to play things other than what they actually are. It happens in just about every movie ever made. You are just being willfully obtuse now to support a belief that TA didn't really mean what he said.
Remnants of Elias' scrotum are seen during the crotch shot.
I know that, but did he make any effort to tell the audience that Eli was male? That would determine what he wanted from the actress. Only those familiar with the book have any clue that Eli is male. TA kinda dropped that whole idea.
No, Eli's gender is irrelevant in the film. Just because characters describe him as a "girl" doesn't mean he is one.
If you mean "ultimately irrelevant", that's probably true. But there is no way to deny that Eli is presented to the audience as a female character and that would be something the actress would need to do.
He was inaccurate when trying to explain a concept in a language he was not proficient at. How is that so hard for you to understand?
So you are saying he doesn't understand English to the point where he actually said the opposite of what he really meant. Whatever you need to believe man.
First of all, Eli wasn't described as "acting like an adult", don't lie, he was described as acting in "a very ... adult way." Notice the pause? The nurse had to think about it, it was not an obvious thing. You're trying to make it into more than it is. You are failing to appreciate the subtle discord that John is trying to convey in Eli's actions.
Eli blew his nose and dried his eyes in "a very ... adult way." That's it, that is the extent of this comparison.
What Maud demonstrates in these scenes is that Eli can generate feelings of confusion in people that unsettles them and makes them easy to manipulate. No matter how strange Eli's manner of blowing his nose was Maud still ended up believing that Eli was a poor mistreated girl that needed her help. Mission accomplished.
I'm "lying" when I say "Eli blew his nose and dried his eyes in "a very ... adult way" is "acting like an adult"?
You are just bending over backward to look for things to attack now. It was actual actions from the character which came off in a "very adult way" to another character. And I can't say Eli was "acting adult"? You serious?
You want to believe so strongly that you'll convince yourself a character would project adult mannerisms to manipulate adult characters. ...The opposite would be more logical. Being childlike is always going to garner more sympathy from adults...that's one of our evolutionary traits.
And being capable of projecting something fake like "adulthood" for the purpose of manipulation in the first place proves a character is not childlike. So either way...Eli wouldn't be mentally 12.
Wrong, that is not what Eli wants people to think. Eli takes advantage of that, of course, but most of the time Eli wears trousers. What Eli wants is for people to believe that he needs their help, for whatever reason they come up with.
Sure...that's why Eli let's Oskar believe he is a girl for most of the book/movie.
They were recording a commentary track, in real time. Tomas commented on what was happening on screen because it helps if their comments largely keep time with the film.
I know that. TA spoke up when he had something to say. When JAL was the one with the opinion, he's the one who talked. Obviously that was about JAL's opinion while TA's interview was his opinion. It is kinda funny to watch you try to discount TA's very specific description of the Eli character in his interview and then try so hard to attach him to JAL's opposite opinion based on a brief two words. That's like religious belief there.
Not being explained in the film isn't the same as not being part of the film. They also didn't explain the reasons the bullies hated Oskar but that was still part of the film.
JAL actually mentioned that's why he felt the need to point it out...because it was explained in the book but not in TA's version..."not here". Commentators frequently talk about things which are not in the movie and are interpretive. That's not new.
Are you forgetting that Tomas was intimately involved in the production of the screenplay? This was not news to Tomas.
I didn't forget. That obviously doesn't mean that TA knew about JAL's view of Eli's mental age since he described him exactly opposite.
share