BAD NEWS on the TNT pilot front! - Let Me In (2010) Discussion

[–] drakkar 8 years ago

Not that I think it helps, but in fact Kristine Frøseth turned 20 a couple of weeks ago...

For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.

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[–] cassbtt 8 years ago

Surprising.

It's really difficult to market stories that have dangerous stuff going on around pre-adolescents, so I'm not surprised by the decision of these uber-cautious TV execs. It's probably the main reason both LTROI and LMI didn't do so well in theaters.

I have my own series of horror-fantasy feature screenplays (five of them) featuring 10 year olds (parts 1-3) and then gave them a bit of time to grow up to become 12 year olds for parts 4-5, and it's been a murder of a sell.

I won't even talk about my heroic child soldier story that I'm trying to sell.

http://www.catconsulting.ca/themanyfacesofabby/index.htm

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

It's probably the main reason both LTROI and LMI didn't do so well in theaters

LTROI was a success in Sweden and did very well for a foreign film outside. I don't think making them teens would have improved its success, if anything it might have hindered it.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

LTROI was a success in Sweden and did very well for a foreign film outside. I don't think making them teens would have improved its success, if anything it might have hindered it.

That's not the kind of numbers they are looking for though. "pretty good for a foreign film" is still 11 million worldwide. That means almost no one saw on this entire planet. I doubt LTROI would show up on any list of highest grossing foreign language films.

And even in Sweden it was only 31st at the box office that year: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/intl/sweden/yearly/?yr=2008&p=.htm

Note the movie in the 20th spot...Twilight. So making them older probably would have increased the box office.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

That's not the kind of numbers they are looking for though. "pretty good for a foreign film" is still 11 million worldwide. That means almost no one saw on this entire planet. I doubt LTROI would show up on any list of highest grossing foreign language films.

Well again... I'm referring to the initial comment of "It's probably the main reason both LTROI and LMI didn't do so well in theaters".

The main reason why LTROI didn't "do so well" is 99% because it was a foreign-language film. But it was still undoubtedly a success.

Note the movie in the 20th spot...Twilight. So making them older probably would have increased the box office.

In Sweden maybe but had it been another "vampire teenagers fall in love" movie I doubt it would have received as much acclaim or attention internationally.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

Well again... I'm referring to the initial comment of "It's probably the main reason both LTROI and LMI didn't do so well in theaters".

The main reason why LTROI didn't "do so well" is 99% because it was a foreign-language film. But it was still undoubtedly a success.

It didn't even make the top 30 in Sweden in 2008 so the language thing wasn't to blame. Pick any country you want and it didn't do very well. Frankly I don't consider the story to be mainstream when it fails to capture an audience twice in two languages. This cannot have escaped their notice at TNT. Nothing wrong with not being mainstream of course. That doesn't stop me from loving LMI.

A "success" in the terms you are talking about is the kind of success you or I would have if we made a small movie that managed to make 11 million. We would no doubt consider it a miracle, but relative to other movies, LTROI barely registered on the radar at the box office and almost no one saw it.

It is the latter that matters to a TV show looking for ratings. They aren't looking for a "success" in which almost no one watches the show.

In Sweden maybe but had it been another "vampire teenagers fall in love" movie I doubt it would have received as much acclaim or attention internationally.

Twilight actually did much better internationally too.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

Twilight actually did much better internationally too.

I don't doubt it but Twilight is an English-language film based off a hugely successful book series.

If LTROI had been a teenage romance film the odds are it would be more successful in Sweden but it probably would not have received the level of attention or acclaim outside Sweden that it did. As it is very few Swedish films receive any international attention with a few obvious exceptions like the Dragon Tattoo films.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

I don't doubt it but Twilight is an English-language film based off a hugely successful book series.

But still was far more popular in nations that do not speak English...including Sweden.

If LTROI had been a teenage romance film the odds are it would be more successful in Sweden but it probably would not have received the level of attention or acclaim outside Sweden that it did. As it is very few Swedish films receive any international attention with a few obvious exceptions like the Dragon Tattoo films.

That goes back to Cass' original point that neither LMI or LTROI did very well in theaters.

It's really difficult to market stories that have dangerous stuff going on around pre-adolescents, so I'm not surprised by the decision of these uber-cautious TV execs. It's probably the main reason both LTROI and LMI didn't do so well in theaters.

Acclaim is nice...both movies got that...but TV execs want ratings. Arrested Development and Firefly got acclaim for days and that didn't stop them from being canceled.

Though James did point out that the recent success of Stranger Things does indicate it can work. Although....the Mother and Sheriff characters in that series had very large roles too. Probably not exactly the same as JAL's story.

Speaking of Swedish films, I saw a list of Sweden's "25 Greatest Films" put together by 50 Swedish film critics in 2012. Acclaim for all, but I haven't seen any of them.

Anyone have a recommendation?

http://www.listchallenges.com/flms-25-greatest-swedish-films-of-all-time

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

But still was far more popular in nations that do not speak English...including Sweden.

Statistically speaking 90% of Sweden knows English and most high-profile movies in America tend to get big releases overseas.

That goes back to Cass' original point that neither LMI or LTROI did very well in theaters.

His point was that the main reason LTROI made as much as it did was because it starred kids instead of teens. The main reason why it didn't make a lot of money internationally is primarily because it was Swedish-language.

And as it is, LTROI was considered to be a box office success in Sweden. Being in the top 31 out of over 200 movies released in a year isn't bad at all and it made more in Sweden than films like The Incredible Hulk, Tropic Thunder, Cloverfield, etc.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

His point was that the main reason LTROI made as much as it did was because it starred kids instead of teens. The main reason why it didn't make a lot of money internationally is primarily because it was Swedish-language.

LMI proved that wasn't the reason. I don't think the story is mainstream when it fails to garner any attention twice in two different languages. If I was a TV exec looking for ratings I would certainly notice that.

And as it is, LTROI was considered to be a box office success in Sweden. Being in the top 31 out of over 200 movies released in a year isn't bad at all and it made more in Sweden than films like The Incredible Hulk, Tropic Thunder, Cloverfield, etc.

You are still talking about a relative success that doesn't apply the the subject at hand. Last year in the US, Get Hard was the 31st most successful movie. In Sweden, it was Let's Be Cops. Technically that's a success, but that's not something that's going to look like a big accomplishment to a TV exec. And it's not just being 31 out of 200...it's also being the 7th most popular Swedish film released in Sweden that year. So even having home court advantage didn't help LTROI become a big hit.

We obviously don't know why they aged up the characters, but they did it and there must be a reason for it.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

LMI proved that wasn't the reason. I don't think the story is mainstream when it fails to garner any attention twice in two different languages

Except LTROI did garner attention. That it received an international theatrical release to begin with is far more attention than any Swedish film prior had achieved for years.

LMI being a flop is due to a number of other factors.

You are still talking about a relative success that doesn't apply the the subject at hand. Last year in the US, Get Hard was the 31st most successful movie. In Sweden, it was Let's Be Cops. Technically that's a success, but that's not something that's going to look like a big accomplishment to a TV exec. And it's not just being 31 out of 200...it's also being the 7th most popular Swedish film released in Sweden that year. So even having home court advantage didn't help LTROI become a big hit.

It wasn't a big hit but it was still viewed as being a success in Sweden. It opened at #2 on opening weekend. In comparison LMI opened at #8.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

Except LTROI did garner attention. That it received an international theatrical release to begin with is far more attention than any Swedish film prior had achieved for years.

LMI being a flop is due to a number of other factors.

Well make up your mind which metric you want to use.

Every movie garners SOME attention. But 11 million worldwide is still a tiny box office result. It means almost no one went to see it.

LMI made over twice as much and is still an obscure movie. This was the same story in English so that wasn't the problem. So you can't claim LTROI is a hit and then claim the movie that made over twice as much is a flop. Neither one made any waves at all at the box office. That can't have escaped the notice of the TNT execs.

It wasn't a big hit but it was still viewed as being a success in Sweden. It opened at #2 on opening weekend. In comparison LMI opened at #8.

I would hope a Swedish movie would do better in Sweden.

And you are still talking about a "relative success" that doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about. I could make a movie for $100 and have a $1000 box office, but that's not going to impress anyone at TNT.

Is that the reason they aged up the characters? No way to tell, but they felt the need to do it for some reason.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

Every movie garners SOME attention.

It's not just a matter of some attention it's a matter of achieving something Sweden hadn't in decades. That's a big deal.

This was the same story in English so that wasn't the problem.

Again LMI didn't do well for a number of different reasons. One of them was the financial problems with the distributor and Case 39 opening on the same day. Had things been different and perhaps if there were different people working on it it could have been a modest hit.

So you can't claim LTROI is a hit and then claim the movie that made over twice as much is a flop.

I can because LTROI was considered to be a financial success and LMI was not.

Krampus made a lot less than the new Ghostbusters but was a hit whereas the latter was a flop.

And you are still talking about a "relative success" that doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about.

It is because LTROI was a success within the cards that it was dealt. To imply that it underperformed is false.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

It's not just a matter of some attention it's a matter of achieving something Sweden hadn't in decades. That's a big deal.

1-That still isn't what we are talking about here. TNT won't get bigger ratings due to anything like that.

2-I find that a bit of an exaggeration or LTROI would have made that list of 25 greatest Swedish films compiled by Swedish critics. LTROI wasn't even Sweden's pick to compete for the Oscar that year.

Again LMI didn't do well for a number of different reasons. One of them was the financial problems with the distributor and Case 39 opening on the same day. Had things been different and perhaps if there were different people working on it it could have been a modest hit.

That only explains the USA. It was the same story worldwide. 16 million outside the US. Better than LTROI's 10 million, but still barely noticeable. I mean I love the story and all, but I just don't think it had mass appeal.

I can because LTROI was considered to be a financial success and LMI was not.

Krampus made a lot less than the new Ghostbusters but was a hit whereas the latter was a flop.

You keep talking about something different than what we are talking about. TV ratings. That means counting numbers of people. Like I said, I could make a movie for $100 and have it gross $1000 and that would be a financial success...but it's still a movie that only got enough people interested to make $1000. Being labeled a financial success isn't going to make the number of people who saw LTROI any bigger. It's still a movie that almost no one saw at the end of the day.

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[–] drakkar 8 years ago

There are several of these lists. Here is one including *beep* Åmål"/"Show me Love" and Lilja 4-ever, which I noticed Jameron missed.

http://listor.se/kultur-noje/sveriges-basta-filmer-genom-tiderna/

For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.

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[–] Jameron 8 years ago

"Here is one including *beep* Åmål"/"Show me Love" and Lilja 4-ever, which I noticed Jameron missed." - drakkar

Not sure what you mean here. I cited both those films as worth watching.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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[–] drakkar 8 years ago

Oh, my bad, I didn't notice them on the other list.

For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

2-I find that a bit of an exaggeration or LTROI would have made that list of 25 greatest Swedish films compiled by Swedish critics. LTROI wasn't even Sweden's pick to compete for the Oscar that year.

There's no exaggeration. No other modern Swedish film prior since some of Bergman's films had received as wide as a release LTROI did. I'm willing to bet few to none of the recent films on that list had as wide a release unless the Dragon Tattoo films are included on that list.

As for the Oscars, horror films haven't been recognized in any capacity for a long time.

That only explains the USA. It was the same story worldwide. 16 million outside the US. Better than LTROI's 10 million, but still barely noticeable. I mean I love the story and all, but I just don't think it had mass appeal.

The Witch IMO has far less mass appeal; it's a slow moving film where almost nothing happens and all the characters speak in old English dialect. And that made twice as much as LMI did.

You keep talking about something different than what we are talking about.

Again my initial argument was to the assertion that LTROI wasn't a success. It was. And being a success within its context is enough for film producers to take notice. If a foreign film is successful locally then film producers view it as something that could work elsewhere which is why so many foreign films get remade.

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[–] cassbtt 8 years ago

This conversation has been had for the full 3.5 years I've hung around here, but...

... which is why so many foreign films get remade

Remember, it's not like somebody stole poor Lindqvist's story and made it without his consent or without paying him.

As he said, (paraphrasing) "...I'm lucky to have had two great films made from one of my stories..."

I'm a writer, too, and getting closer and closer to "cracking this nut", I hope, and when that happens I will want every one of my screenplays to be produced, made into TV series, theatrical musicals, Saturday-morning cartoons, make it to ComicCon, sequels and spin-offs made, remade every ten years, etc.

But no doubt, the fans of the first "version" will be bad-mouthing everything that comes thereafter. C'est la vie.

http://www.catconsulting.ca/themanyfacesofabby/index.htm

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

Remember, it's not like somebody stole poor Lindqvist's story and made it without his consent or without paying him.

Where did you infer that?

But no doubt, the fans of the first "version" will be bad-mouthing everything that comes thereafter. C'est la vie.

On the contrary I remain hopeful that the tv series is good. I figure if you can make a good show about Norman Bates as a modern teenager anything is possible.

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[–] cassbtt 8 years ago

Remember, it's not like somebody stole poor Lindqvist's story and made it without his consent or without paying him
Where did you infer that?

Meaning, the writer authorizes everything that's happened, including "permitting" LMI to proceed. If people have complaints about LMI, or the TV series, perhaps they can complain here:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0512137/board

Of course, I jest. But you'd think from some of these threads that "the damn Americans (I'm a Canuck) are evil for parlaying poor little Sweden's film classics into trash".

The writer let it happen.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

I'm still not sure what your point is as nowhere did I suggest that LMI was made against his will.

That being said JAL had no idea this tv show was being made until we all did. So I think you overstate the level of control he has or the respect Hammer has for him.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

There's no exaggeration. No other modern Swedish film prior since some of Bergman's films had received as wide as a release LTROI did. I'm willing to bet few to none of the recent films on that list had as wide a release unless the Dragon Tattoo films are included on that list.

Apparently a "wide release" is not considered as big a deal in Sweden since the Dragon Tattoo films didn't make the list either. They did include another 2008 film called Involuntary though. How many decades were you claiming there?

As for the Oscars, horror films haven't been recognized in any capacity for a long time.

But...awards! They matter! (except when they don't)

The Witch IMO has far less mass appeal; it's a slow moving film where almost nothing happens and all the characters speak in old English dialect. And that made twice as much as LMI did.

That is another one that didn't have mass appeal then if that's all it made. LMI made over twice what LTROI made but doubling a tiny box office isn't much.

"Mass appeal" isn't what we say it is...it's what the public says it is. And the public has spoken twice on this story. They tried it two different ways and it didn't work either time. Now TNT is trying it a different way with older characters and in a different format that will delve into the book further.

Again my initial argument was to the assertion that LTROI wasn't a success. It was. And being a success within its context is enough for film producers to take notice. If a foreign film is successful locally then film producers view it as something that could work elsewhere which is why so many foreign films get remade.

This is about eyeballs and you are talking about a tiny "success" that has nothing to do with that. Every person who watched both movies could tune in and it would have very low ratings and get canceled. They will need to attract a LOT more viewers than the movies did.

LMI was made because the Swedish producers of LTROI wanted an English language version. (note they are also producers on LMI) In fact they tried to get it made before LTROI even started filming.
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/30/local/la-et-let-me-in-20100930

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

Apparently a "wide release" is not considered as big a deal in Sweden since the Dragon Tattoo films didn't make the list either. They did include another 2008 film called Involuntary though. How many decades were you claiming there?

That film you mentioned just played in film festivals in the US. As far as I can tell it didn't get anything resembling a theatrical release outside of Sweden. So that just backs up what I said.

As for how long, probably 25 years. Maybe since 'Fanny and Alexander' in 1982 and even then I don't know how many theateers I got. I can't find much to indicate there were any more recent films to get a standard limited theatrical release (as in more than twenty theaters). Lilya 4-ever was a pretty famous Swedish film but that only got 7 theaters in the US.

Mass appeal" isn't what we say it is...it's what the public says it is. And the public has spoken twice on this story. They tried it two different ways and it didn't work either time. Now TNT is trying it a different way with older characters and in a different format that will delve into the book further.

To suggest that LTROI was a failure in any capacity is flat-out wrong. It exceeded all possible expectations that were set for it.

This is about eyeballs and you are talking about a tiny "success" that has nothing to do with that. Every person who watched both movies could tune in and it would have very low ratings and get canceled. They will need to attract a LOT more viewers than the movies did.

Again, that's not how these things work. That's not the mindset a producer uses when they adapt or remake foreign properties. They see if something is successful with its intended audience and see that as a property that has been tested and proven to be successful and they try to bring it to a wider audience.

When producers remade "Ring" (or "Ringu") they didn't do it because it was a huge international blockbuster, they saw that it was a hit in Japan and figured that it would be a bigger success in English. If anything if it's NOT a huge success with international audiences that's all the better for them because their audience will treat it like its new. When Simon Oakes saw billboards for 'Let the Right One In' outside his office he went "This is terrible!" for that very reason.

Sometimes they purchase the rights to sit on it until after the remake comes out (see the US release for Rec).

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

That film you mentioned just played in film festivals in the US. As far as I can tell it didn't get anything resembling a theatrical release outside of Sweden. So that just backs up what I said.

As for how long, probably 25 years. Maybe since 'Fanny and Alexander' in 1982 and even then I don't know how many theateers I got. I can't find much to indicate there were any more recent films to get a standard limited theatrical release (as in more than twenty theaters). Lilya 4-ever was a pretty famous Swedish film but that only got 7 theaters in the US.

Then we should be talking about Girl with the Dragon Tattoo if we want to talk about Swedish movies that got a wide release. That's the one that "achieved something Sweden hadn't in decades"....not LTROI.

If 7 theaters in the US discounts Lilya 4-Ever, then LTROI is out too since it was only shown in 4 theaters in the US. And Swedish critics don't think LTROI is among their 25 best films. I like it an all, but let's not exaggerate how it's perceived. There are 5 other films from the last two decades that are higher regarded in Sweden.

To suggest that LTROI was a failure in any capacity is flat-out wrong. It exceeded all possible expectations that were set for it.

I have no idea who you are arguing with. Other than some knee jerk reaction to a perceived insult to LTROI, I guess? Nothing was stated other than this:

It's probably the main reason both LTROI and LMI didn't do so well in theaters

That's about eyeballs as it relates to TV ratings and is just the facts. LMI didn't get many viewers and LTROI got less than half of that. You are talking about something different...a "relative success" that is not the subject here.

Again, that's not how these things work. That's not the mindset a producer uses when they adapt or remake foreign properties. They see if something is successful with its intended audience and see that as a property that has been tested and proven to be successful and they try to bring it to a wider audience.

I know that. That's exactly what Simon Oakes was saying when Hammer released LMI. And the audience stayed away again. This was with the assumed language barrier removed.

So they did try what you are saying and it didn't work. That's why I keep mentioning that it's been tried twice and failed twice. There is something about this story that keeps it from being mainstream. I would not be a bit surprised if people in charge started thinking about the age of the characters as the culprit. Especially since Hammer already toyed with the idea with LMI. The story failing to garner an audience again probably reinforced that feeling at Hammer. You just know who ever was behind that idea saw the box office and said, "See? I was right!"

Just speculation of course, but they are changing the ages for a reason.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

Then we should be talking about Girl with the Dragon Tattoo if we want to talk about Swedish movies that got a wide release. That's the one that "achieved something Sweden hadn't in decades"....not LTROI.

It was definitely a bigger success but LTROI was still the first to get a wide release.

If 7 theaters in the US discounts Lilya 4-Ever, then LTROI is out too since it was only shown in 4 theaters in the US.

I think you're mistaken. LTROI had over 50.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=lettherightonein.htm

I have no idea who you are arguing with. Other than some knee jerk reaction to a perceived insult to LTROI, I guess?

You said "They tried with LTROI and it didn't work". That's false.

The issue here is you're acting like it being in Swedish wasn't a factor at all when you know full well that 99% of foreign language films aren't even seen period outside of their native countries and that for a foreign film to get one it has to be the cream of the crop (it can't just be some average time-waster). LTROI was a Swedish-language film that became the first Swedish film in over two decades to get an international theatrical release solely by positive acclaim. By all standards it did work.

And the audience stayed away again. This was with the assumed language barrier removed.

Again, LMI's failure has to do with more than just "the story isn't mainstream". There was almost zero buzz or advertising for it aside from the horror fans who probably already didn't have much interest in a remake. There was the issues with the studio. No high-profile people working on it. etc.

Had even a few things been different (like say Wes Anderson or Tim Burton directing) it could have made more.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

It was definitely a bigger success but LTROI was still the first to get a wide release.

Neither one made the top 25 Swedish films compiled by Swedish critics so that cannot be as big a deal in Sweden as you are claiming. The film you claim was not as "successful" as LTROI, Lilja 4-Ever, did make the list. Involuntary, the film chosen by Sweden as their submission for Best Foreign Film in 2008 over LTROI, also made the list and it didn't get a release in the US at all.

I think you're mistaken. LTROI had over 50.

True. But I hear "release" and think "opening". Miscommunication.

You said "They tried with LTROI and it didn't work". That's false.

It's not false. That's what happened. It's nice to make a profit on a tiny audience but that doesn't change that it's a tiny audience. In the context of this particular conversation, neither movie was successful. TV ratings don't care about "relative success", they care about the number of people.

The issue here is you're acting like it being in Swedish wasn't a factor at all when you know full well that 99% of foreign language films aren't even seen period outside of their native countries and that for a foreign film to get one it has to be the cream of the crop (it can't just be some average time-waster). LTROI was a Swedish-language film that became the first Swedish film in over two decades to get an international theatrical release solely by positive acclaim. By all standards it did work.

By all standards? No...by the standard you are using. If you use the standard this conversation was based on (number of people interested in the property), LTROI was not a success. LMI was not even a success by that standard and it was seen by over twice as many people.

I would certainly buy into the language barrier thing if LMI didn't fail too. Changing the story to English only doubled the audience. "Doubled" may sound impressive, but doubling a tiny audience still isn't very big. And I'm talking worldwide numbers here so any US excuses for LMI don't explain that away.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

Neither one made the top 25 Swedish films compiled by Swedish critics so that cannot be as big a deal in Sweden as you are claiming.

On the contrary it indicates that the list isn't at all representative of what Sweden views as a 'big deal' when you factor in how successful 'Dragon Tattoo' was at the box office there.

It's not false. That's what happened. It's nice to make a profit on a tiny audience but that doesn't change that it's a tiny audience. In the context of this particular conversation, neither movie was successful. TV ratings don't care about "relative success", they care about the number of people.

"Relative success" is exactly what producers look at when they adapt foreign properties. LTROI was successful with its intended audience and then some, LMI was not.

I would certainly buy into the language barrier thing if LMI didn't fail too.

This implies that there is no language barrier for for foreign-language films to reach an audience internationally which is false on every level.

And again... LMI's failure was not a given. Most people didn't even know it existed when it was in theaters according to the polls and a lot of the press was trying to prove itself to an audience who had no reason to see an English-language version of LTROI in the first place. If Blumhouse had remade it instead of Hammer it could have been a big success.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

On the contrary it indicates that the list isn't at all representative of what Sweden views as a 'big deal' when you factor in how successful 'Dragon Tattoo' was at the box office there.

I'm trying to figure out what you are talking about. You mention "acclaim" at times...which would mean the Swedish critics who do not think of LTROI as one of their greatest films. Now we are talking about box office...and LTROI was the 7th or 8th highest grossing Swedish film that year in Sweden. Which group of people are you claiming think LTROI is the biggest Swedish achievement in decades?

This is where the whole "measure art" thing falls apart. Some claim it can be done, but then immediately disregard the methods we use to try and measure it.

"Relative success" is exactly what producers look at when they adapt foreign properties. LTROI was successful with its intended audience and then some, LMI was not.

That's why I question that an "intended audience" ever existed in the first place. Who are all these people who were supposed to be interested in this story? They got rid of the "language barrier" used as an excuse for LTROI and that didn't work either. That "relative success" you are claiming is so impressive will get the TV show cancelled very quickly.

Is that why they are changing the characters? I don't know, but they are doing it for some reason.

This implies that there is no language barrier for for foreign-language films to reach an audience internationally which is false on every level.

No it implies no more than what I said...that the language barrier was not the overriding reason why almost no one saw LTROI in theaters. Not other movies...LTROI.

And again... LMI's failure was not a given. Most people didn't even know it existed when it was in theaters according to the polls and a lot of the press was trying to prove itself to an audience who had no reason to see an English-language version of LTROI in the first place. If Blumhouse had remade it instead of Hammer it could have been a big success.

That's what I mean. There was a tiny audience for the story in the first place.

We can talk about what "could have been" all day...but in the end we only know what actually happened. Two movies....neither of which managed to garner a large audience. ...Or even a medium audience.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

Which group of people are you claiming think LTROI is the biggest Swedish achievement in decades?

It's not an opinion, it's objective statistics. LTROI was the first Swedish film in over twenty years to get an international theatrical release.

They got rid of the "language barrier" used as an excuse for LTROI and that didn't work either. That "relative success" you are claiming is so impressive will get the TV show cancelled very quickly.

No it implies no more than what I said...that the language barrier was not the overriding reason why almost no one saw LTROI in theaters. Not other movies...LTROI.

The overwhelming majority of people aren't interested in foreign films. That will always be the main obstacle. For LTROI to be even noticed period outside of Sweden it needed to go above and beyond. But there was never any chance that a Swedish-language film based on an obscure source material (in comparison the 'Dragon Tattoo' books were huge international successes) would ever become a big blockbuster and to suggest it could have happened is disingenuous.

LMI being a flop isn't proof that any version will flop it's just evidence that no one at Hammer knew what they were doing. Which is probably why they're still doing remakes and DTV crap.

We can talk about what "could have been" all day...but in the end we only know what actually happened. Two movies....neither of which managed to garner a large audience. ...Or even a medium audience.

You say two films as if one wasn't a foreign film from a country with less than ten million people that hadn't produced a film to garner an international theatrical release in over twenty years. You're suggesting that both received the level of same of exposure and promotion and were made available to the same amount of people.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

It's not an opinion, it's objective statistics. LTROI was the first Swedish film in over twenty years to get an international theatrical release.

I guess I'm trying to figure out who it's a "big deal" with. It wasn't Swedish critics or Swedish movie goers. It wasn't international audiences since it only managed 11 million from getting an international theatrical release. As It Is In Heaven, another Swedish film released that same year, made over 36 million internationally. So LTROI wasn't even the only Swedish movie to get an international release that year.

Do you mean LTROI was one of several "big deals" maybe? The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo was released the very next year and made over 100 million. I think you are exaggerating.

The overwhelming majority of people aren't interested in foreign films. That will always be the main obstacle. For LTROI to be even noticed period outside of Sweden it needed to go above and beyond. But there was never any chance that a Swedish-language film based on an obscure source material (in comparison the 'Dragon Tattoo' books were huge international successes) would ever become a big blockbuster and to suggest it could have happened is disingenuous.

Well just comparing it with As It Is In Heaven demonstrates that a Swedish film released in 2008 could at least manage 36 million so LTROI didn't do any box office numbers that maximized the potential. And of course the Girl films showed what the box office potential really was for a Swedish film the very next year. The 100 Year Old Man recently made over 50 million as well.

LMI being a flop isn't proof that any version will flop it's just evidence that no one at Hammer knew what they were doing. Which is probably why they're still doing remakes and DTV crap.

You do know the Swedish producers of LTROI were involved with LMI too, right?

If you are talking about marketing, maybe Hammer isn't good at that, but LMI was a critically acclaimed movie. So by the standard we believe somehow measures art, they were successful at making a good movie and it failed to garner an audience. When it happens twice, the excuses start to pile up. That's the sort of thing TV networks notice.

You say two films as if one wasn't a foreign film from a country with less than ten million people that hadn't produced a film to garner an international theatrical release in over twenty years. You're suggesting that both received the level of same of exposure and promotion and were made available to the same amount of people.

The fact that they were two movies with different situations and both failed is the reason it appears the story is not mainstream. The Swedish producers wanted an English language version for the reason you state, and that didn't work either. Not to mention that other Swedish language films have gotten a much bigger audience (bigger than LMI even) so the potential was there.

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[–] Jameron 8 years ago

"Anyone have a recommendation?

http://www.listchallenges.com/flms-25-greatest-swedish-films-of-all-time"; - Harpo

For what it's worth, my nominations are...

Lilya-4-ever - Pretty depressing film about hopeless situations and bad choices.

F**cking Åmål (AKA Show Me Love) - Romantic story about an outsider finding love 

Not in that list but Flickan is well worth a watch.

.

Edit: IMDB decided the name of the second film is offensive, despite using it themselves. 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

Danke. Now comes the part where I try to find them.

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[–] Jameron 8 years ago

"Now comes the part where I try to find them." - Harpo

You can get them all via Amazon.com. If you don't want to buy them, they are available ... elsewhere.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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[–] drakkar 8 years ago

In "Den enfaldiga mördaren"/"The simple minded murdered", an Hasse&Tage film, Tomas Alfredson plays the fairly big part as the teenager son.

You should also check out the other Hasse&Tage films, mostly quirky comedies, however very watchable. "Äppelkriget"/"War of the Apples" is a gem.

For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

In "Den enfaldiga mördaren"/"The simple minded murdered", an Hasse&Tage film, Tomas Alfredson plays the fairly big part as the teenager son.

You should also check out the other Hasse&Tage films, mostly quirky comedies, however very watchable. "Äppelkriget"/"War of the Apples" is a gem.

Thanks! I've definitely gotta check out the young TA.

The Seventh Seal has been on my bucket list for a while.

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[–] drakkar 8 years ago

Good luck :) :

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasse-Tage-Box-Portraits-Äppelkriget/dp/B01H3PLBDY/ref=sr_1_4?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1475868333&sr=1-4&keywords=the+apple+war

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasse-Tage-Box-Christophers-Karl-Bertil/dp/B01H3Q60DY/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1475868416&sr=1-1&keywords=hasse+tage

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hasse-Tage-Box-Simple-Minded-Pettersson/dp/B01H3PAWA2/ref=sr_1_6?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1475868416&sr=1-6&keywords=hasse+tage

For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

I wish they had the streaming option at Amazon for those. There will come a time very soon when we will be able to stream any movie ever made at a moment's notice. I can't wait for that.

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[–] drakkar 8 years ago

Speaking of, anyone heard about Frostbiten, a Swedish vampire film released a year before LTROI?

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[–] Jameron 8 years ago

"Speaking of, anyone heard about Frostbiten, a Swedish vampire film released a year before LTROI?" - drakkar

I've heard of it, I haven't seen it yet. Isn't it a comedy?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e3tGxnFKfE

http://tinyurl.com/LTROI-story

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[–] drakkar 8 years ago

Mainly, yes. A horror comedy, sort of.
A petite with incoherent plot, but also scattered with good lines and funny characters (teenager vampires galore!), so I actually like it. The end is the worst; suddenly it is over, with enough loose ends to make a follow-up - which probably was the intent.

For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.

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[–] cassbtt 8 years ago

Well, it's nice to talk about this TV derivation here, but I just went to the source forum on IMDB (for the LTROI TV show) to get more info.

This Kristine Froseth who's being cast for the little vampire... well, that pretty well settles the issue of how they're going to approach the gender thing right there.

http://deadline.com/2016/09/let-the-right-one-in-kristine-froseth-cast-eli-tnt-pilot-vampire-1201828738

Sounds like LMI, then, but with older teens, and using the title of the original movie.

I bet nobody will be happy with that, ha! 😝

http://www.catconsulting.ca/themanyfacesofabby/index.htm

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

This Kristine Froseth who's being cast for the little vampire... well, that pretty well settles the issue of how they're going to approach the gender thing right there.

http://deadline.com/2016/09/let-the-right-one-in-kristine-froseth-cast-eli-tnt-pilot-vampire-1201828738

Sounds like LMI, then, but with older teens, and using the title of the original movie.

I bet nobody will be happy with that, ha! 😝

Well, no fans of any of these properties anyway. And that's a small group of people so I doubt that's who they are targeting.

They definitely leaned more toward Moretz than Leandersson with that casting.

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[–] 8 years ago

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

Hmmm. Speculation time. Is this a result of no Matt Reeves?

This could come from the Hammer producers. As you mentioned, they wanted to age up the characters in LMI. (This was before Twilight so that feeling could only have gotten worse with the studios since then) Reeves balked at the idea and stopped it. Reeves is really stubborn about not doing things he doesn't want to do...he's turned down several projects since LMI because he felt they were wrong for him.

This quote is interesting:

Rian Johnson’s doing “Star Wars,” Gareth Edwards made “Godzilla,” you got to make an uncompromised and dark “Planet Of The Apes” film. Do you feel a return to filmmaker-based big-budget movies rather than studio-driven ones?

Maybe to some degree, yeah. I turned down a lot of studio tentpole offers including ones from Fox. But I loved what they did with ‘Rise,’ so I was really open to it because and they specifically reached out in the spirit of looking for a filmmaker. It’s actually what they said they wanted and actually meant it too.

Despite a couple key collaborations Fox had with say, James Cameron, they weren’t necessarily known of wanting to work with filmmakers on these kinds of big movies and that seemed to be a big part of their approach on this film. I kept waiting for the moment when they would say no and they didn’t. We certainly had our debates about things—that happens no matter where or what you do. But they let me make this movie which is incredible.

Do you see the business changing at all?

Well, certainly Chris Nolan did that with the Batman films, they were hugely successful. But at the end of the day success is the driver and if they make a number of these filmmaker-based films and they fail miserably then it probably won’t be the order of the day. It always comes down to the same thing. The studios… it’s a business and always has been, and it has to work. In my experience they loved the idea of doing something that both fulfills the summer tentpole spectacle, but also has some ambition and if that works then they’re going to go that route. And if it doesn’t work then of course they won’t.

Change will come first and foremost from audiences. If they connect to it, great. If they don’t connect to it, then wherever audiences go, that’s where the studios are going to chase.

http://www.indiewire.com/2014/07/interview-director-matt-reeves-explores-the-anatomy-of-violence-in-dawn-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-274541/#blogPostHeaderPanel

So the box office for LMI and LTROI being so small can't have escaped the notice of the people producing this one. Two tries and two tiny box office runs. And to be honest, if that's what people want then it's hard to blame studios for giving it to them.

I love the way Reeves thinks. He's so picky about accepting offers that he may not make as many movies as other directors.

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[–] MartenBroadcloak 8 years ago

One reason could be if you're planning on multiple seasons having a twelve year old actress for Eli would pose a problem given how fast kids mature and you'd have a difficult time selling the immortal concept. Less so with a nineteen year old.

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[–] jamescraig2000 8 years ago

My understanding was that it would be based on the book. Maybe they are just adopting the premise. Either way I agree with Matt Reeves in that it really removes the potency of the characters. To say that people won't give two minutes of attention to a story involving a band of twelve year olds is bull. Stranger Things has been a huge hit with older audiences, along with Stand By Me.

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This is my sig Not that ^

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

My understanding was that it would be based on the book. Maybe they are just adopting the premise. Either way I agree with Matt Reeves in that it really removes the potency of the characters. To say that people won't give two minutes of attention to a story involving a band of twelve year olds is bull. Stranger Things has been a huge hit with older audiences, along with Stand By Me.

Good point.

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[–] itfollowedme 8 years ago

I don't think the aging up has anything to do with appealing to the Twilight audiences because both network and basic cable television have gotten a whole lot darker so I expect the show to push boundaries for a basic cable show in a way that is not going to appeal to teenage girls (or at least not intentionally). However, while the aging up does bother me a little, it's bugs me more they're having an underage actor in a romance with a 19 year old, that skeeves me out a bit.

If it weren't for that and the fact that Jeff Davis is writing it I would be super excited for this series. Teen Wolf is a horribly written show and Dylan O'brien's scenery chewing performance is the only reason that show is still on air.

I'll still watch the TNT show though, I love this story too much to not at least give it a chance, but I'm even more eager to rewatch LTROI and LMI this month it's been too long since I've seen them.

Btw hey HarpoSpoke!!! I'm imnotazombie and omg hearing this announced messed with me because it brought back all my LTROI and LMI feels. It makes me feel old that they're already re-adapting it again. But it's not like it's been that long. Regardless good to see you're still on the LMI board. The love hasn't died <3

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

I don't think the aging up has anything to do with appealing to the Twilight audiences because both network and basic cable television have gotten a whole lot darker so I expect the show to push boundaries for a basic cable show in a way that is not going to appeal to teenage girls (or at least not intentionally).

I hope you are right there. Maybe it's just so any violence or disturbing imagery will be easier to take if the characters are older than 12?

If it weren't for that and the fact that Jeff Davis is writing it I would be super excited for this series. Teen Wolf is a horribly written show and Dylan O'brien's scenery chewing performance is the only reason that show is still on air.

I guess we'll have to hope for the best there. I'm going to give it a chance too.

Btw hey HarpoSpoke!!! I'm imnotazombie and omg hearing this announced messed with me because it brought back all my LTROI and LMI feels.

Oh hey! You still made the coolest tribute videos I've ever seen. You should have some kind of career in film...editing at least.

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[–] cassbtt 8 years ago

What gets me is the IMDBpro listing of a Dakota Guppy playing a 12-year-old Eli, in episode #1.

I think LTROI/LMI movie fans are going to have to prepare for this TV series being something that has very little to do with either movie, only so much to do with the book as cable TV will permit, and as much as the corporate profiteers can squeeze out of whatever its proposed audience is.

http://www.catconsulting.ca/themanyfacesofabby/index.htm

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[–] HarpoSpoke 8 years ago

What gets me is the IMDBpro listing of a Dakota Guppy playing a 12-year-old Eli, in episode #1.

I think LTROI/LMI movie fans are going to have to prepare for this TV series being something that has very little to do with either movie, only so much to do with the book as cable TV will permit, and as much as the corporate profiteers can squeeze out of whatever its proposed audience is.

You might be right. I don't see how they can fit the stuff in a TV show that made me love this movie. Pretty much impossible.

So I guess they'll have a flashback and then have Eli get older? Hmmm...maybe that's a way to explain away an aging actress if the show lasts a few years.

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