MovieChat Forums > Brave (2012) Discussion > Merida was willing to kill her mother

Merida was willing to kill her mother

posted 11 years ago by aleusong
27 replies | jump to latest

There is one significant moment that I remember from the film that was probably the film's lowest point...the way the witch warned Merida of the possible consequences behind giving the spell to her mother strongly suggested (in my mind) that it could be something that could kill her. And still Merida agreed to use the spell on her mom.

Any human being with any concept of right or wrong would start questioning whether using such a spell would be a good idea at this point. I don't think any of the other Disney Princesses (regardless of unhappy they were) would go as far as to kill a relative to get what they wanted. Even Cinderella and Snow White have never thought about physically harming or endangering their stepmothers no matter how awful they were.

This is what makes Merida, to me, the worst of the Disney Princesses, even worse than Ariel. Ariel may have made some stupid choices but I think she would've given it a second thought had she known that it would've endangered her father's life in the process.

[–] rbrtck 11 years ago

the way the witch warned Merida of the possible consequences behind giving the spell to her mother strongly suggested (in my mind) that it could be something that could kill her. And still Merida agreed to use the spell on her mom.

This is where Merida lost my empathy and the movie as a whole lost my interest, although it's not the only reason. I was really getting into it, too (despite the silliness of the witch), but it never recovered after this (how could it?).

Any human being with any concept of right or wrong would start questioning whether using such a spell would be a good idea at this point.

Even if a character is hopelessly ignorant and naive, and never learned to be anything but selfish, there should be some kind of instinctual protectiveness of or concern for one's own mother. A story can only push things so far, and this one went too far for many of us.

This is what makes Merida, to me, the worst of the Disney Princesses, even worse than Ariel. Ariel may have made some stupid choices but I think she would've given it a second thought had she known that it would've endangered her father's life in the process.

Ariel is bad enough as it is, but yeah, Merida strikes me as even worse. It's one thing to have faults, as we all do, and to hurt the ones we love in some ways (don't we all occasionally?), but for goodness' sake this was not merely foolish but unnaturally cold and calculated! What does Disney and now Pixar have against redheads, anyway?

[–] magnusplin 9 years ago

I completely agree. Merida just isn't a very likable character at all. Not to mention the fact that, even with her mother in pain, all she cares about is Elinor changing her mind. I don't know about you, but I would be terrified and incredibly concerned if my mother were in severe pain like Elinor was.
Even Ariel (whom I personally love) would think twice about feeding POISON to others who pissed her off.
Feeding her mother without knowing what the cake would do was a completely cold and calculated move on Merida's part. At least Ariel knew the conditions when she made the deal with Ursula (three days to get Eric to kiss her, being Ursula's slave if she failed, etc.). Merida didn't even KNOW what the cake would do, other than the vague "it will change your fate" crap.

[–] thetuffpuff 11 years ago

Merida is rude, spoiled, selfish, disrespectful and insensitive. I have two nieces who are a little too young for this now; however, I am going to warn their parents. I know my sister-in-law will turn it off after the second time that Merida gets all sassy mouth with her mother.

I actually have the DVD going right now, but I was SO TURNED OFF by her absolute lack of concern for her mother after seeing that the cake was obviously making her sick... let alone what happened afterwards. Zero remorse! It's making me contemplate not finishing the film.

It's a Disney film, so I'm sure she will "learn the lesson" in the end. It'll be all heart warming. However, I'm tired of the entertainment industry constantly modeling disrespectful & argumentative behavior to children.

Great hair. But.......

SPOILER:
OK, just finished the film and in Disney fashion, in the end Merida FINALLY took some responsibility for her actions and after tearful repentance, the curse was lifted and everyone lived happily ever after. But I still have a problem with her attitude for most of the film. I would love to see a little bad ass who still showed her mom some respect and not only at times of utter despair.

[–] The-Rebexorcist 11 years ago

It's a Disney film

It's actually a Pixar film.... but that makes it a million times worse! I could almost forgive all of this in a Disney film - if it had been pulled off just a little better, that is. But it feels so OFF for Pixar of all studios to stoop to this level of storytelling. They've NEVER resorted to this degree of trope-y cliched TYPICAL storytelling, on top of how cynical the whole thing is.

----------
I used to want you dead but
Now I only want you gone.

[–] RbSnedlap 11 years ago

Interesting that the automatic assumption is that she SHOULD love her mother when said mother is quite willing to use her as a political bargining chip and marry her off to some man she`s never met in her life before a few days/hours earlier.

The fact is though, as we find out at several points later in the film the two of them DO care a great deal about each other but both are strong willed and stubborn and their relationship has been suffering as a result.
Merida SHOULD probably be more careful in her dealings with the witch and listen a bit more carefully to what she`s being told but she`s just come from a major confrontation with her mother where both have managed to seriously hurt one another so she is angry, confused and not altogether thinking straight.

And this whole thing with the Wisps, the Witch and Mor`du has been somewhat lying in wait to trap another first born of royalty ever since the `Lost Prince` failed to resolve it the first time.

Even Cinderella and Snow White have never thought about physically harming or endangering their stepmothers no matter how awful they were.

Complete doormats in other words, perhaps they SHOULD have done something instead of just passively taking the bad treatment they got?
I do seem to recall though something about somebody`s wicked stepmother being forced to dance in red hot shoes later in one of the stories though you dont see that in the Disney version.

"Any plan that involves losing your hat is a BAD plan.""

[–] ricky_says_hi 11 years ago

Um wasn't Merida hoping that the spell would change her mother's mind about the marriage? You think if the witch had flat-out told her it would turn Elinor into a bear, she still would have gone through with it?

Merida is a child and thus not prone to making smart decisions. How exactly did the witch imply that the spell would kill her mother? Merida specifically asked for a spell to change her fate by changing her mother

People seem to be overly hard on Merida and completely ignore Elinor's faults as well. Rather than actually listening to her daughter's problems and trying to solve things diplomatically (like y'know, she's been drilling into her head for years) she reacts by yelling and trying to force her own will on Merida. Elinor should serve as a cautionary tale for parents - be very careful how you treat your children or else they could run off and so something stupid

I'm gonna die of long hair!

[–] celticank88 11 years ago

I am agreeing with ricky_says_ni, everyone on this board seem to forget about Elinor's faults I mean forcing Merida into a marriage with guys she never meet and not working their problems is not much of a healthy relationship.

Second of all everyone here seems to railroad Merida on attempting murder. First, Merida wanted the witch to give her a spell to change Elinor's mind! I doubt Merida intended to kill especially when she was protecting her mom from her dad and was upset when Merida thought was too late to change her mom back. Honestly I think in my Merida made an error in judgement when she got the spell from the witch, but Merida in a way had no choice at the time, especially when Elinor was hell bent on the marriage. I mean think about would u rather have Merida attempt to reason with Elinor even though she would not listen to Merida?

[–] LukeLovesFilm28 9 years ago

I am agreeing with ricky_says_ni, everyone on this board seem to forget about Elinor's faults I mean forcing Merida into a marriage with guys she never meet and not working their problems is not much of a healthy relationship.

This is how it was for MANY years to ensure the future and safety of their daughters. Was it "right" by our standards? No. BUT people today keep forgetting how hard life was for them without all of the conveniences and comforts we take for granted today. Mom didn't just buy the sewing supplies at Wal-Mart. She had to make everything that went into that marriage quilt BY HAND. And her average lifespan is about 40 to 50 years old.

[–] RbSnedlap 9 years ago

It wasn`t a marriage quilt, it was a decorative tapestry or wall hanging for the castle.
The design on it is extremely significant for the plot as well as it represents the kingdom and ties in with the broken stone in Mohr Du`s story.

"Any plan that involves losing your hat is a BAD plan.""

[–] Abbalish 9 years ago

Yes Elinor was awful as a mum. I wanted her to stay as a bear she was better as the bear.

[–] magnusplin 9 years ago

Complete doormats in other words

It's called being patient; much better than assaulting others. Also, if that's "passive", then I guess I'd rather be a "complete doormat" (as you put it, though that's far from what Cinderella and Snow White are) than POISON people to get what I want. I didn't know showing kindness, compassion, and patience was bad; just goes to show what kind of society we live in today. Shameful.
Ignorance at its worst.
Also, here's some food for thought:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0465940/board/thread/219305512
Plus, in Cinderella III: A Twist in Time (a much better movie than Brave could ever hope to be), Cinderella gets fed up and even breaks out of a goddamn evil carriage (all without having to poison anyone, mind you). So damsel-in-distress, my glass-slippered foot. Not to mention, she's still the same person we know from the original, just expanded upon.
Snow and Cinderella are strong feminists, and they're strong and well-done characters with a lot of things to admire about them.

[–] manchof1 11 years ago

That's why I laugh when people say this was a good film, you have to be a total wacko to think so.

[–] celticank88 11 years ago

Manchof1 that's your opinion, but seriously does everyone really believe that Merida was really gonna to kill her mom?

[–] SelenaQP 11 years ago

It really did made me cringe just to see the sight of it.

Don't be calling me no bitch! If I'm a bitch, then your mama is a bitch, BITCH!

[–] Katachthonios 11 years ago

I must be watching an edited version. At no point does the witch say "This spell could kill your mother," and there's a dancing merriment in Merida's eyes when she says, "I'll TAKE that risk!"

The movie that I watched has a stubborn and petulant teenager requesting a spell to change her mother's mind, and not paying attention to the implied threat of dire consequences.

[–] OffensivelyPC 9 years ago

If only poeple could take the essence of parent and teenager issues in communication and played them out in a fictional setting where people weren't really harmed. It would be even better if there could be people watching this unfold for entertainment so they don't have to take what they see so seriously and perhaps maybe those viewers could learn a thing or two about themselves and their parent/child. Sounds like a potential goldmine...

[–] emadhatter 10 years ago

The other thing that bothered me was when Merida had to bribe her 3 brothers to help their mother escape the castle after she turned into a bear. Like seriously, those triplets were negotiating desserts to save their mother's life.

[–] TheChamCham 10 years ago

Did they know that the bear was their mother ? (I am going to watch it again.)

[–] SkySoar 10 years ago

I'm not this movie's biggest fan, but one of the things that really resonated with me from this movie was the mother/daughter relationship. Merida is a child. There's a reason children aren't given adult responsibilities. They are not adults. Merida is a child. She is. As sweet as her mother tries to be, she forces these traditions down her throat with very little visible compassion. From Merida's perspective, everything her mother forced down her throat antagonized the way she believed, thought, and wanted to live her life.

Her mother could have been more compassionate. Perhaps tried to lovingly reason with her daughter's want for adventure instead of labeling it as a negative. That's one of the things I really wanted for the characters in the beginning and it was a cliche move for them to have to discover it toward the end. It's a story ending we all saw coming. Pixar could have been smarter.

So yeah, Merida did an awful deed with that spell. But not only did she realize it but she was a freaking child. Yes, children are capable of mature behavior, but it depends on who raises them. Merida had a dad who was a total goofball and a mother who antagonized her at every direction. Of course she won't have any real guidance. I have always believed that right and wrong are taught. Not only taught but shown. It certainly wasn't right for Elinor to try to shove her beliefs down Merida's throat, and this is speaking from somebody who follows Christianity.

Everybody had a lesson to learn in this movie. If Elinor can learn to live with her daughter's thirst for adventure then why can't we accept Merida's growth either? Honestly the bravest things these characters learned to do was to accept each other's faults and make the choice to love each other regardless. It wasn't handled in the way I would have preferred it, but it was there.

[–] LukeLovesFilm28 9 years ago

I'm not this movie's biggest fan, but one of the things that really resonated with me from this movie was the mother/daughter relationship. Merida is a child. There's a reason children aren't given adult responsibilities. They are not adults. Merida is a child. She is. As sweet as her mother tries to be, she forces these traditions down her throat with very little visible compassion. From Merida's perspective, everything her mother forced down her throat antagonized the way she believed, thought, and wanted to live her life.

It's a false, modern perspective on a 16 year old girl of that period. Kids back then had to grow up a lot faster. Not many real princesses like Merida would've reacted anywhere close to that.

[–] magnusplin 9 years ago

People complain about Walt's three original princesses needing to be "saved by a man". Merida doesn't need to be saved by her "man", just by three little boys and a bear. 😂

[–] Voice-of-Discernment 10 years ago

Exactly! Given how the witch speaks about it, it's surprising it wasn't actually "poison" that her mother's ingesting. And for all Merida knew, it could've been. But it's obvious what her priorities are (first and foremost, to get her mum off her case) and that makes her very unsympathetic to me. There is absolutely no excuse for such behavior - no matter how much you might disagree with said parent, no matter how much you may hate each other, no matter what their plans are... if you risk a person's well-being for your own selfish reasons you're a terrible human being.

And I've actually seen fans compare Merida to Mulan! Because they're both weapon-wielding princesses or something... Apparently these fans forget that Mulan went to war to save her father's life, while Merida poisoned her mother to get her way.

Horrible, horrible character.

And the movie itself... It's so "broken". No cohesive plot, the Mordu thing just comes and goes... plus the emotional manipulation played very badly and expectedly.

I'm not a fan.