MovieChat Forums > Kill the Messenger (2014) Discussion > On Rotten Tomatoes it says:

On Rotten Tomatoes it says:

posted 10 years ago by seanmaster25
17 replies | jump to latest

"Kill the Messenger's potent fury over the tale of its real-life subject overrides its factual inaccuracies and occasional narrative stumbles."

Could anyone clarify what are these 'factual inaccuracies'? Because by all that I've read, everything Gary Webb said about the CIA operation ended up being true. Idk where they embellished or anything in the writing of the movie, maybe the part where they raid his house? It's just frustrating that some people might write this story off as Hollywood making stuff up when that's not the case at all here. I'm sort of sad that RT would write that about an important story like this which for all intents and purposes, is very real.

[–] ryan-anderson 10 years ago

"Kill the Messenger's potent fury over the tale of its real-life subject overrides its factual inaccuracies and occasional narrative stumbles."

Could anyone clarify what are these 'factual inaccuracies'? Because by all that I've read, everything Gary Webb said about the CIA operation ended up being true.

See the links below. They point out the numerous inaccuracies with some of Webb's claims (in fact, the more significant his claims were the more inaccurate they were).

http://ajrarchive.org/article.asp?id=3875

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/special/cia.html

Idk where they embellished or anything in the writing of the movie, maybe the part where they raid his house?

To my knowledge, even Webb didn't claim some of the things in the movie (i.e. his children being threatened, or a CIA guy approaching him and telling him he was right) happened. That part was probably "dramatic license" (as Oliver Stone use to call it). Furthermore, the claim at the end of the film that the CIA's IG report vindicated him isn't true. That report and the DOJ's report blew a bunch of holes in his story.

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[–] Sausage_Carius 10 years ago

Except most of what you just wrote, minus the part about the movie, is full of *beep* http://www.thenation.com/blog/181940/new-york-times-wants-gary-webb-st ay-dead#

[–] ryan-anderson 10 years ago

Sorry but it isn't. As much as people want to believe in this stuff: it just simply isn't true. The timeline of cocaine introduction into this country doesn't fit Webb's story (the part most people forget). Before the Nicaraguan revolution even happened, the pipelines had already been opened and Colombia's leading export had already become cocaine. It's kind of funny you post this from The Nation because even some of their writers admitted they had a hard time keeping a straight face reading some of Webb's allegations in Dark Alliance (i.e. the book).

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[–] Caulk_Rocket 10 years ago

So, because the Colombians already had been shipping in cocaine no one else could have?

That cocaine largely wound up in Miami. We're talking about the crack epidemic beginning in Los Angeles. Oscar Danilo Blandón really was Ricky Ross' supplier, and where was he from?

[–] ryan-anderson 10 years ago

That cocaine largely wound up in Miami. We're talking about the crack epidemic beginning in Los Angeles. Oscar Danilo Blandón really was Ricky Ross' supplier, and where was he from?

Actually that cocaine wound up all over the country. But more/closer to the point, the Medellin cartel had already established contacts in LA and was importing the stuff well before Ross was in business. For example, in 1979 (before the Nicaraguan revolution happened), federal agents busted up a Colombian ring in Granada Hills that had been flying in 200-kilo loads via Lear jets and Cessnas. Kingpins in south central like "Tootie" Reese had established links with the South American cartels well before then. 3 Federal investigations into this established that. (Most notably the DOJ investigation.)

Furthermore, the Dark Alliance series by its own numbers undermines the notion of Ross & Co. starting or maintaining such a epidemic: Webb gives the number Blandon sold to Ross at around 5 tons. By DEA estimates, more cocaine went to Los Angeles in a single year (i.e. 1980; before Blandon was selling to Ross) than Ross sold over 8-10 years.

Also its important to put into perspective who Ross's suppliers were: they were not Contras who went into dealing to support them.....they were dealers sympathetic to their cause who kept most of the money they made (while maybe giving a 5-6 figure amount to them). That's an important distinction.

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[–] Caulk_Rocket 10 years ago

Did Webb allege the Contras sold directly to Ross?

Has anyone said that?

[–] ryan-anderson 10 years ago

Did Webb allege the Contras sold directly to Ross?

Yes since he made Meneses & Co. out to be some kind of bigwigs in the Contra organization. (What would be the point of the story without that anyway?)

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[–] rjbmuse-1 9 years ago

The CIA was funneling cocaine into black and student communities in the 1970's to undermine the Black Panthers and the anti-war movements. Those drugs were largely coming from Columbia.

[–] Lady_Elaine_Fairchild 9 years ago

I don't think anyone thinks that they introduced cocaine into the country at that time but the fact is that our government was flying additional amounts of cocaine into this country to make money to arm the Sandinista.

Any illegal drugs being brought into my country by my government is not ok with me.

We are supposed to be above this.
We are supposed to be the good guys.
Why and when did that stop?

As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.

[–] ryan-anderson 9 years ago

I don't think anyone thinks that they introduced cocaine into the country at that time....

In that case you need to re-read 'Dark Alliance' (the book and the series).

...but the fact is that our government was flying additional amounts of cocaine into this country to make money to arm the Sandinista.

Not "our government" but CIA assets on the payroll who were used to keep the Contras in supply. Granted the CIA suspected (and knew in some cases) what these guys were up to. But that's hardly government sanction.

We are supposed to be above this.
We are supposed to be the good guys.
Why and when did that stop?

 Your naivety is touching. The question is (or should be): how do you conduct a foreign policy without dealing with people like this? In the case of the Contras, do you seriously think the people who run guns in that part of the world are the Boy Scouts?

When did it stop? When did it ever start? One of the first things we did during the Cold War was to recruit Nazi war criminals and use them in our efforts.

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[–] Lady_Elaine_Fairchild 9 years ago

I meant that I believe Cocaine has been coming into our country longer than that (mid 1800sat least ) just not hitching a ride with CIA ass(ets).
Drugs have been brought in by our government to "create crime" (and justify budgets jobs etc) since at least the 1940s.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/11/creating-a-crime-how-the-cia-commandeered-the-dea/

Not "our government" but CIA assets on the payroll who were used to keep the Contras in supply. Granted the CIA suspected (and knew in some cases) what these guys were up to. But that's hardly government sanction.

So these are not Members of our Government ...

Alan Fiers, Jr. Central American Task Force, Chief CIA
https://www.brown.edu/Research/Understanding_the_Iran_Contra_Affair/profile-fiers.php

Oliver North National Security Council staff member
Richard Secord, Air Force General
http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB2/docs/doc02.pdf
In a July 12, 1985 entry, North noted a call from retired Air Force general Richard Secord in which the two discussed a Honduran arms warehouse from which the contras planned to purchase weapons. (The contras did eventually buy the arms, using money the Reagan administration secretly raised from Saudi Arabia.) According to the notebook, Secord told North that "14 M to finance [the arms in the warehouse] came from drugs."

Dois Gene Tatum, Helicopter Pilot, US ARMY 82-86 and CIA Agent 86-92
Testimonny:
I was a helicopter pilot for the United States Army from 1982 to 1986, during which time I flew missions in Central America and also from Ft Campbell, Kentucky. From 1986 to 1992 I was an agent for the Central Intelligence Agency, operating under a deep-cover assignment. During this time I witnessed activities involving high-level U.S. personnel that I felt were unlawful, and I reported these activities to my superiors in the U.S. Army and to my handlers in the Central Intelligence Agency, to the National Security Council, and to various individuals, including William Barr, Oliver North, George Bush. Among these activities were rampant drug smuggling into the United States involving people in control of the Central Intelligence Agency, the Drug Enforcement Administration, the armed forces of the United States, among others.

I have documented some of these activities on military flight plans, showing as passengers on certain flights, the following: William Barr; Buddy Young; Felix Rodriguez; Oliver North; Joe Fernandez; Manuel Noriega, and Mike Harari. I have visited cocaine laboratories with the above people, who were inspecting the drug smuggling operations in Central America. I have documented on some of these military flight plans the nature of the cargo being carried in white coolers that were fraudulently marked as "medical supplies," which I accidentally discovered to be cocaine.

Felix Rodriguez, CIA Agent

Duane Clarridge European Division, Chief CIA

A Central Intelligence Agency anti-drug program in Venezuela shipped a ton of nearly pure cocaine to the United States in 1990, Government officials said today.
In the late 1990, Customs agents in Miami seized a ton of pure cocaine from Venezuela. To their surprise, a Venezuelan undercover agent said the CIA had approved the delivery. DEA Administrator Robert Bonner ordered an investigation and discovered that the CIA had, in fact, shipped the load from its warehouse in Venezuela.
The “controlled deliveries” were managed by CIA officer Mark McFarlin, a veteran of Reagan’s terror campaign in El Salvador.
http://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/20/world/anti-drug-unit-of-cia-sent-ton-of-cocaine-to-us-in-1990.html

I could add more but why? its a fact that the drug busies is a vicious cycle that feeds itself.
(and of course it isn't going to be officially sanctioned)

As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.
Conceive Deceive or Leave

[–] ryan-anderson 9 years ago

These allegations have been looked into before. For example: Felix Rodriguez. The Kerry committee tried their best to get him but failed. In a closed session of that committee (despite Rodriguez's demand for an open one), Kerry accused Felix of money laundering. And was later forced to apologize when this story turned out to be false. CA was a hotbed of these types of rumors at the time.

And I've heard Tatum's story before and I'm not buying it. He accompanied Rodriguez, North, and Noriega to a drug lab? (Was this lab at Area 51?) For what purpose would guys like that go to one and bring somebody like Tatum with them? He claims it was for an "inspection"? (Hey guys, great crack lab you've got here.) And how would a guy like Tatum be in any position to report this to George Bush? He was a ways down in the chain of command to be speaking directly to him.

By the way, didn't Tatum claim (at one point) to be a personnel assassin for George Bush.....and that Bush ordered him to "neutralize" Ross Perot? (Guess that solves the mystery as to why he would be talking to him. )

I think he's one of those sources for the kind of stories you read in the checkout line at the supermarket (i.e. Weekly World News). 

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] RobSac 10 years ago

Rotten Tomatoes is owned by Time Warner, one of the major corporate media companies, so I'd imagine their reasons for bashing Gary Webb and anything which humanizes him, like this movie, are the same reasons that the LA Times and Washington Post bashed him when he first wrote the Dark Alliance story.

[–] sdrywer 10 years ago

Illumintati much?

[–] SamoanJoes 9 years ago

Are you referring to the top of the page underneath the percentage? If so, those comments are just based on what some of the critics have said. Funny enough, those comments aren't accurate themselves.

[–] TheRealJaneDoe 9 years ago

Still, what a good movie - and a sad story. Love Jeremy Renner.

Look at us. You pretending to be me, signing a book I didn't even write. -Selina Meyer