MovieChat Forums > Kill the Messenger (2014) Discussion > What do Americans think about this movie...

What do Americans think about this movie?

posted 9 years ago by EpicalypseAfter
16 replies | jump to latest

not in terms of how it's made, filmed, acted

but about the actual story

curious, because i always hear how America always does the right thing, and it's very a propos in terms of the current war on terror and how America can be blamed for a lot of the mess because they often support either the wrong groups, demonize another, condemn some bad regimes but condone some even worse, etc...

but everytime these things are pointed out, people are conspiracy theorists, anti-American, or anti-Semite etc etc

so with keeping the current political situation in mind, what do Americans think about this story?

i personally felt it's the most in your face film about how dark the American government can get, an important film nonetheless

[–] ryan-anderson 9 years ago

curious, because i always hear how America always does the right thing

That sounds more like propaganda than what an actual (well informed) American really believes. I think we are all very well aware that our government has done the wrong thing on more than one occasion.

so with keeping the current political situation in mind, what do Americans think about this story?

I've always had mixed thoughts on this thing. On the one hand, I liked Webb's moxie in being willing to report on something like this and challenge the establishment. On the other hand, the overreaching (and sometimes ridiculous) claims of the series and book have put some myths into the nation's blood stream that abides to this very day.

And (as you alluded to) it is an important reminder as to the type of people we sometimes get mixed up with in these types of operations. But that presents a problem: if you are going to have a foreign policy......these are the kind of choices that have to be made. Who were these angels in the third world we were supposed to work with? They didn't exist. (And they still don't.) Take South Korea for example: should we have thrown them to the wolves because they didn't (at the time) have a very democratic government? Should we have let Saddam Hussein keep Kuwait because putting the Emir back on the throne wasn't particularly appealing? Should we have not taken advantage of the Intel the Nazis had gathered on the USSR at the end of the WW II (which meant ultimately protecting some of them from prosecution as war criminals)? The list goes on and on. The realities of foreign policy aren't pretty. But its the real world. Unless someone wants to be an isolationist (something I was kind of hoping we would become after the Cold War ended) these are the choices that have to be made.

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[–] silentmovie 9 years ago

Just watched this flick. I remember the series of articles because I regularly read the San Jose Mercury News. I remember also that some of the information was reputed to be false, such as the premise that the CIA was actively peddling the drugs in the U.S. in order to profit so that they could fund the Contras. I think this was a typical "smear Reagan" movie. In fact, Reagan was right to stand up to the Soviet Union.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] ryan-anderson 8 years ago

So I suppose the CIA itself is not to be believed when they admitted it?

They admitted nothing of the sort. At most, what they admitted was that they were aware that some elements of the Contras (and assets that supplied them) were mixed up in the drug trade. That isn't anywhere near the equivalent of actively selling drugs in the United States.

The drug trade did not rise and fall based on the Nicaraguans who got mixed up in it. (That much (at least) should be obvious by this point since the drug trade was well established before the Nicaraguan revolution and continued (unabated) after the Contras folded.)

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[–] tom-1674 8 years ago

They admitted nothing of the sort.

You need to quit pretending that a newspaper headline, or even an article, contains anything more than a few facts and a lot of spin. I've studied the CIA for decades. The information is there, but you need to dig deeper than the newspapers.

The CIA's own documents going back to the founding of the agency contain records of their agents (do you know what a CIA agent is? it's not what you think) selling drugs within the USA and all over the world. They have been caught red handed setting up proprietaries (including airlines) for the sole purpose of running drugs. They routinely fund raise using drugs and guns so they can evade congressional oversight.

Many ex CIA officers have written articles and/or books corroborating these crimes. Congress has made numerous investigations, and even the whitewashed ones contain loads of evidence which will never make it to the mainstream headlines.

Even Wikipedia, famous for being boot lickers for the government and corporations, has an article on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_drug_trafficking

[–] ryan-anderson 8 years ago

Did you read your own link? If you'll note, a lot of these allegations are just that: allegations. (Including the subject of this movie.) Plenty of ex-CIA guys have made all sorts of (unfounded) claims in the past that didn't pan out. Needless to say, if they had the goods, we wouldn't be talking about it (i.e. they wouldn't be allegations).

I think most intelligent people realize the CIA is going to rub elbows with some pretty rough people in these types of activities. (The people who run guns in that part of the world aren't the Boy Scouts.) Indeed, on both sides of the aisle during the latter part of the Cold War insurgents got mixed up in the drug trade. But to say that was somehow was officially sanctioned......or played a critical role in the emergence of a drug epidemic (which is what the Dark Alliance series claimed).....is just absurd. The timeline doesn't fit that scenario.

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[–] tom-1674 8 years ago

Did you read your own link?

Did you? It's packed full of proof, not allegations. This is undeniable, yet you lamely try to weasel out of it.

Obviously you're an apologist for criminals in government, so there is no point wasting my time trying to cure you of your wilful ignorance. People like you are disgusting. You are a traitor to your nation. Your nation is hated all around the world because scum like you let their government commit all manner of crimes in their name while you sneer and smirk and use weasel words like "alleged".

Your military is currently guarding the world's largest opium crops in Afghanistan. Go ahead and deny that, a$$hole. While you're doing that, just remember how much of it is ruining the lives of your fellow citizens, that is if you give a $hit.

[–] ryan-anderson 8 years ago

Did you? It's packed full of proof, not allegations.

Here is what it says (for example) regarding the Dark Alliance allegations:

In 1986, the United States Senate Committee on Foreign Relations began investigating drug trafficking from Central and South America and the Caribbean to the United States. The investigation was conducted by the Sub-Committee on Terrorism, Narcotics, and International Operations, chaired by Senator John Kerry, so its final 1989 report was known as the Kerry Committee report. The Report concluded that "it is clear that individuals who provided support for the Contras were involved in drug trafficking, the supply network of the Contras was used by drug trafficking organizations, and elements of the Contras themselves knowingly received financial and material assistance from drug traffickers."[32]

In 1996 Gary Webb wrote a series of articles published in the San Jose Mercury News, which investigated Nicaraguans linked to the CIA-backed Contras who had smuggled cocaine into the U.S. which was then distributed as crack cocaine into Los Angeles and funneled profits to the Contras. His articles asserted that the CIA was aware of the cocaine transactions and the large shipments of drugs into the U.S. by the Contra personnel and directly aided drug dealers to raise money for the Contras. The Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, and The Washington Post launched their own investigations and rejected Webb's allegations.[33] In May 1997, the Mercury News executive editor Jerry Ceppos, who had approved the series, published a column that acknowledged shortcomings in the series reporting, editing, and production, while maintaining the story was correct "on many important points."[33] Webb later published a book based on the series, Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and the Crack Cocaine Explosion.[citation needed]

And that proves absolutely nothing with regards to the CIA. It's simply repeating Webb's allegations which (to this day) still stand unproven.

Obviously you're an apologist for criminals in government, so there is no point wasting my time trying to cure you of your wilful ignorance. People like you are disgusting. You are a traitor to your nation. Your nation is hated all around the world because scum like you let their government commit all manner of crimes in their name while you sneer and smirk and use weasel words like "alleged".

Your military is currently guarding the world's largest opium crops in Afghanistan. Go ahead and deny that, a$$hole. While you're doing that, just remember how much of it is ruining the lives of your fellow citizens, that is if you give a $hit.

You know somebody has lost the argument when they resort to name calling like this. Someday if/when you grow up.....maybe you will be able to talk about this like an adult. (Maybe you'll get some perspective along the way.)

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ryan-anderson 8 years ago

Cut the red herring bull$hit. The CIA has been forced to admit they deal drugs. Evidence is everywhere. You cannot deny this.

If it's everywhere I suppose you could cite it.....but you cannot.

I don't give a $hit about your stupid arguments.

You cannot argue anything like an adult.

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[–] tom-1674 8 years ago

If it's everywhere I suppose you could cite it.....but you cannot.

I already did a$$hole. Just one of THOUSANDS of links. But you chose to LIE about what's in that link. Others can click the link and see who is telling the truth and who is a whitewashing boot licker for creeps. Anyone who's studied the history of the CIA knows I'm right and you're full of $hit.

You cannot argue anything like an adult.

I already told you I don't give a $hit about arguments. I already told you it's about exposing the truth about your sick government. Like you give a fück anyway, creep.

[–] Lady_Elaine_Fairchild 9 years ago

Here's is what a military brat, American daughter, who works for the military industrial complex thinks ...one who bought into all the propaganda and used to cry when I heard my national anthem.
I am disappointed and pissed off.

As a renaissance chick, I paint, write, and sing loudly off-key.
Conceive Deceive or Leave

[–] Nixon_Carmichael 9 years ago

A bit of a sweeping statement. I think you'd be hard pressed to find an ordinary American who claims and/or believes that the government does the right thing.

I'd imagine that you might find quite the opposite. Despite the talking haircuts you might see on tv, not all Americans are flag waiving, walking hard-ons.

J.

[–] AtheistRevolution 8 years ago

Only brainwashed Americans that fell for propaganda believe US government is good.Its as evil as any other empire throughout history. Does nobody notice that CIA created our worst enemies? Al Qaeda,drug cartels,etc.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] spookyrat1 8 years ago

They voted with their feet and chose not to see the movie, though apparently promotion and distribution of the film was limited. It's probably a good thing the film didn't have a mega-budget. 🐭