MovieChat Forums > La piel que habito (2011) Discussion > Sympathy for the Rapist??? (Spoilers)

Sympathy for the Rapist??? (Spoilers)


If you've seen it.... It IS an interesting punishment - justice: twilight zone style.
but the movie sets it up that we are to sympathize with poor Vincente.
But remember Norma's life was shattered. SHATTERED because some dumb guy wanted to get his rocks off.
I have no problem with destroying the life of anyone who rapes.
This movie however.... handled it badly.
Vincente doesn't even think he raped the girl.
And instead of inflicting punishment..... the Doctor falls in love????
in love with the guy who raped your daughter and drove her to suicide? right?
and we are supposed to feel bad for Vera and hope she can be reunited with her family?
Boo.
Boo, I say.

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I can't believe anyone interpreted the scene between the two of them as rape, it was clearly demonstrated as being quite the opposite. We're shown the time within it happening, from kind of two points of view. The aftermath of what happened, and from the doctor's point of view, she was raped, that's what we were lead to believe. Then they showed it to us again, but showed everything leading up to it. Why else should we been shown it in this way?

They both went outside quite happily, and holding hands, flirting, then they begin kissing, and begin to have sex, and everything was going fine, until the song, and then she abruptly wanted to stop, and it took him a moment to realise it, then she flipped out. He stopped having sex with her a moment later, he didn't keep going, it took a short moment for him to realise the situation, and she was losing it. He panicked, and knew that if someone was walking by, or heard the commotion would think he was raping her, so he wanted to quieten her, by putting his hand over her mouth (clearly not a wise idea), she bit him, and he hit her. He wasn't a great dude, for sure, and he acted a little poorly, but given the panicky situation & the fact he was drugged out, there's no way he could be called a rapist, and certainly not someone worthy of the horrible punishment he was served (even if he was a rapist!).

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He misunderstood her, she didn't want to have sex, you can see how she doesn't enjoy it at all when he begins to undress her and kiss her hard, he forced himself on her for a moment until she bit him and he knocked her out, it was rape, brief but it was.

Like the view? It's the only thing you'll be catching tonight

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Even though Vincente was responsible for Norma's death, there are plenty of stories, where a bad guy becomes the victim you root for in the end, and I don't think this is an exception to the rule or anything.

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And instead of inflicting punishment..... the Doctor falls in love????
in love with the guy who raped your daughter and drove her to suicide? right?


But that is end of the Dr's story arc. Initially his objective is to seek vengeance or justice. In the process though he uses his wives image as a template to reconstruct and emasculate Vicente, perhaps because he has studied and knows it so well. The Dr's own obsession with seeking justice leads to his destruction as he draws on the morphology of the woman he loved.

In the end even people who are not aware of the perverse mutilation Vicente is subjected to regard Vicente's transformed form as the body of Robert's previous wife. Robert was seduced by the precision of his own work or to put it another way he began to regard what was left of Vicente's carved up body as that of a lovely women who he could love resulting in a total change of attitude for the Mad Dr.

The Dr. gave Vicente all the weapons he needed to escape despite never intended this. It really is a recycling of the man vs science theme started by Marry Shelly.

One might say there is a cautionary message about seeking revenge here.

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If you watched this movie and thought that he raped her, you're an idiot.

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^^^^^^ This.


You`re my wife now.

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Put it in front of a judge then see whether it is deemed rape.

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I'm a girl and I don't even consider that rape. The only thing he did that was a little on the rapey side was cover her mouth.

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That, and the threshold of either party saying'no'.

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That was the biggest indicator for me. Lol.

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Didn't occur to me that it was rape either. I think a lot of guys would react in a manner similar to how he did if right in the midst of the act the girl started freaking out like that, because we all know just being accused of rape can screw or lives up.

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Wow, if you didn't think he raped her, you have the mind of a rapist.

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Within the context of this particular film: it isn't rape, and that's what makes what happens to Vincent all the more horrifying - that in the end it's the result of a terrible, albeit understandable, misunderstanding of a tragic situation.

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Even if he did rape her this punishment was way too sick and twisted for any sane person not to feel sympathy for. Especially if you're male I presume...

On the plus side I guess Vincente will finally chances of sleeping with his hot lesbian co-worker just went up after release.

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It was not rape, not even date rape. They were both stoned, he was horny, and for something to be called rape the words "NO!" or "Stop!" must be somehow uttered. Mid way it turned into a sort of abuse, but after she resisted, covered her mouth and then smacked her (not hard, but it was apparently enough to drop her unconscious), he did not continue the intercourse. That would be rape, because she revoked her (silent) consent, even though she did it mid way. When you start kissing someone and she says absolutely nothing this is not legally or even morally rape, because she does not have to say "YES!", her consent is silent but clear. And do not forget that they were both stoned. He abused her because he panicked people would hear her screams and accuse him of raping but he did not rape her. If he was sober and she was stoned that would be like he roofied her, sort of, but that was not the case. They were both roofied.

Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.

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I am shocked at the outright ignorance and perversity of some people here. It is no wonder that our culture is so embracing of rape and other mysogynist behaviour.

1. Just because "he didn't mean to" rape her, it doesn't mean he didn't.

She said no- pushed and git him. It took him waaay to long to stop. The fact that he wasn't sober is not a justification. The other fact that he could hot understand from the awkward conversation that this young girl was under heavy psychiatric medications again, does not exonerate him from his actions.

To the guy that is putting blame on the girl because she was "stoned". You imbecile! She was taking prescribed drugs. She was probably forced to do so by the doctors. But even if she was "stoned" with her own free will (like the dude was) she can refuse sexual advances. That the other person does not comply with her request (out of whatever reason) makes this...A RAPE.

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Thanks! finally a consequent person here. TOO sad that people won't see this as rape lol... thanks rape culture, one person just needs to see these comments to know how affected people are by it.

Regarding the OP... well gosh after I finished this movie which, by all means, was shocking, I felt so conflicted with my feelings because well, Vicente was guilty and after all, he knew it... and I can't believe I didn't realized Vera was him until the movie made the transition of images... Actually I thought the movie was really good, I didn't know it was a book and gave credit to Almodóvar for this twisted and bizarre plot and concept (tho his mind is a similar place, considering his previous movies)... I don't know if we're supposed to feel sympathy for the rapist, like someone said above me, it was more about realizing Robert's insanity. The rapist did deserve a some sort of punishment, and if the Doctor thought that making him a woman with Gal's body and then falling in love with her/him was a punishment, even if he wasn't intended to fall that way, well...

Still, this movie will really be around my head for a while.

------
I hate you, I hate us both

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So literally every many man who has ever had sexual intercourse with a woman is a rapist.? Ok. You're both gynosentric misandrists.

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Simon-tomte and all other "It wasn't rape" believers, I think you all have to rewatch that scene.

First, not once does she reciprocate any of his advances. She breaks her heel and he leans in and kisses her. She has closed lips and eyes wide open before moving away from the kiss and laughing about her shoe. To any sober person she clearly, from this point is politely rejecting his advance. Also, that is the only lip to lip interaction of the entire scene.

The fact he is stoned has absolutely zero relevance on the rape itself. That would be like saying a drunk-driver who commits vehicular homicide should not be to blame because he wasn't sober. Intent aside, a manslaughter charge would be the result.

As to the rape itself, she does not reciprocate to a single thing he does. When he begins to undress her, she backs away from him with twitching eyes and a nervous look. Again, clear to anyone. He kisses her body and forces her to the ground. She lays motionless as he begins to undress her, dry hump her, and kiss her body while talking to her. She does not kiss him back, her hands are against his body, not pulling him in and the only words she utters are a completely non-sexual "Are you in treatment too?".

By the time he pulls down both his pants and her underwear, she has not kissed him, embraced him, or said any words indicating her desire for his advances. As a man, I find it incredibly insulting that many on this board, in a sober capacity watching this film, have not noticed all of these tell-tale signs to this point.

Next she begins to softly say "No" while pushing back against him just as he begins to enter her. Again, I find it unbelievable, that still no one in a sober state would watch this and think "She wanted it."

Although we can all agree it wasn't his intent to rape her, ignorance, drugs, and misreading the situation are all poor excuses.

Finally, once he realizes she is pushing him and saying no he covers her mouth and repeatedly says "shut up". I don't know about anyone else, but if I were in what I believed was a consensual act, I would probably start with, "What's wrong?" or "Are you okay?" or something to that regard rather than quickly moving to cover her mouth and tell her shut up. Those that defend this action are completely off-base.

Finally, she starts biting him, and instead of getting off of her and moving his hand away from her mouth (which she clearly wants considering the whole defensive biting maneuver) He repeatedly says "Stop" as if her biting is the problem. Once he removes his hand her scream is justifiably loud and he hits her to quiet her?

Again, intent aside, as a man, I do not know how anyone can defend any of his actions or make excuses for his character.

To be clear, this is not an argument for or against the punishment he receives (that is a discussion for another thread), it is just a clarification on that particular scene which is clearly rape.

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I am about to watch this... But btw it is not legally considered rape if she waits until after penatration to say no. After that if she says no, it is an almost impossible case to win. Not really "right" but fact.

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2 denniswhurley - but the fact that the Dr went as far as to exact an act of massive revenge shows that rape isn't just bad because of it being a "legal" offense and besides, as life itself has proven, the laws in such cases often don't work and are very ineffective. That's why he didn't even try to report him to the police but exacted vengeance.

By the way I wonder - say if the law allowed such acts of revenge to take place, would it make the world a better place in general?

The greatest trick the Devil has ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist!

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The best ending to me.. would have been if they had both killed each other.. shot each other in the room that night as she/he shot the Dr. He should of had a gun in his nightstand... that we never saw until then.. because he just had that inkling he couldn't trust her/him. lol

"Why are you wearing the stupid man suit?"

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I did identify it as a rape, see another forum post of mine here.

I found it interesting that she mentioned Rohypnol RIGHT before the rape... as she said she was no longer on it. That seemed to suggest to me.. a rape is about to take place .. as Rohypnol is "the date rape drug" however she would have been taking them for insomnia. Rohypnol has never been approved for use in the United States. However, it is legally prescribed for medical use in more than 50 foreign countries for the treatment of insomnia and as a pre-anesthetic.

"Why are you wearing the stupid man suit?"

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