Nice doc. Too bad they LIED about the order of events. - Anvil: The Story of Anvil (2009) Discussion

[–] cadillac20 15 years ago

Because people want to see the band succeed in the end. It really isn't about the fact of the order of the events, but about creating a true-to-life underdog story. We're more interested in seeing that this band does indeed have the potential to succeed by showing a sold out concert rather than see them forced to create and sell their own cd's. Personally, I don't really care, and I am very happy with the way the doc ended.

--What if Jesus was a time traveler?

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

But then it makes me wonder what other things in this "documentary" were fudged:

Did Rob really have a falling out with Lips while recording This is Thirteen? Or was that completely contrived? Why was there no footage of them arguing in the studio WHILE recording since it seemed that was where the conflict originated?

Was it Lips' idea to really try to work as a telemarketer or was that completely contrived?

Did Lips really physically threaten the club owner, or was that completely contrived?

Where was Lips staying when he was in Los Angeles? Not in a hotel? Whose yard was that he was standing in while pondering how well he might do back in Canada with the new CD? Seemed a bit obvious to me that was completely contrived, what with the overgrown yard and beat up yard furniture.

Was Lips really able to support a family with a salary as a delivery driver for a catering company?

I don't know. This whole thing smacks of "Reality TV" if you ask me and I'm sorry, but even though the band probably deserves recognition, I'm not really sure what to think of a "documentary" that isn't really a documentary as much as it is an extended reality tv show.

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[–] metaldj 15 years ago

<Did Rob really have a falling out with Lips while recording This is Thirteen? Or was that completely contrived? Why was there no footage of them arguing in the studio WHILE recording since it seemed that was where the conflict originated?>

300 hours of footage was shot..good chance its on there and the director used only the part that he wanted to.

Runing out of time & $$...and having conflict with your best friend & drummer
it happens all the time. Dont see how you felt that or any of this was contrived.

<Was it Lips' idea to really try to work as a telemarketer or was that completely contrived?>

<Did Lips really physically threaten the club owner, or was that completely contrived?>

If you dont get paid..you get pissed+ see above reply.

<Where was Lips staying when he was in Los Angeles? Not in a hotel? Whose yard was that he was standing in while pondering how well he might do back in Canada with the new CD? Seemed a bit obvious to me that was completely contrived, what with the overgrown yard and beat up yard furniture.>

They all stayed at the directors House in the Hollywood Hills...thats been said at many screenings.

<Was Lips really able to support a family with a salary as a delivery driver for a catering company?>

Dunno maybe..you only see one part of it all.

<I don't know. This whole thing smacks of "Reality TV" if you ask me and I'm sorry, but even though the band probably deserves recognition, I'm not really sure what to think of a "documentary" that isn't really a documentary as much as it is an extended reality tv show.>

Think what you will...its a real band with real problems. The director was a roadie and has befriended them by doing this film.

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"Runing out of time & $$...and having conflict with your best friend & drummer
it happens all the time. Dont see how you felt that or any of this was contrived."

Because, they showed not a second of the actual conflict (during the recording process) and then spent many minutes showing the aftermath. Seems a bit odd to me. Did they not shoot footage of the actual conflicts, re: Rob's supposed laziness in playing the drum tracks? Just sayin'...

"If you dont get paid..you get pissed+ see above reply."

But, taken in context with the nature of Lips, a guy who is too polite to mislead people on the phone in order to sell some sunglasses and pay for the new release..? Huh?

Don't get me wrong, I dig the band and support them, but I HAVE TO question the entire film now based on the big lie at the end of the story.

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[–] secondeye 15 years ago

Yeah and then there's the whole "THE BAND ISN'T REAL YOU SCHMUCK!" thing too.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] tgallo 15 years ago

as for the argument....if you listen to any of the DVD commentaries.......the camera guy happen to be walking by and heard them arguing ...you see his hand opening the door. They weren't being filmed EVERY second.

It was also mentioned that the argument was an all day event...well 6 hours...so we are only seeing a small portion

He was standing in Sacha's yard...also mentioned in the commentary tracks

Lips' wife also works

trust me....if you knew these guys....you'd no it wasn't contrived

the Japanese concert was out of sequence......but only becuase Sacha liked the way it bookended the film......but it didn't really alter their story be doing it

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

I'm not saying the guys (Lips or Rob) are full of sh!t I'm saying the filmmakers are full of sh!t.

Did the guys have any affect on the edit? Were they ever induced or directed to do or say anything during the taping of the doc footage?

Saying Sacha liked the way the concert scene "bookended" the film (a documentary) doesn't really negate the (most important) fact that it's a BIG lie, because they deliberately suggested that the Japanese concert happened as a result of the CD release.

It's not the same kind of choice (say for example) that Sacha decided to use Steadicam because he liked the smooth camera movement, compared to showing events out of chronological order IN A DOCUMENTARY.

Sorry, but that one obvious LIE casts every other thing in the documentary in a dubious light. Michael Moore doesn't get a pass for that kind of sh!t, so why should Sacha?

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[–] amsyco13 15 years ago

But it does alter their story. It changes everything.

As far as the movie goes and not counting everything that has happened to the band since its release, Anvil's story did not end with a triumphant return to Japan in front of a huge audience.

The filmmaker uses the making of This is Thirteen as a difficult time that the band had to work through leading up to this sort of Anvil resurgence. And that was not the case. The making of the album was not this trial the band had to endure en route to the huge Japanese show.

In fact, and again I am just going off of Anvil's lives before the film was released, The Story of Anvil did not have a happy ending as depicted in the film. It had a happy middle and a truly sad ending.

By the filmmaker mixing it up simply because he liked the way it bookended the film, he was being very manipulative and did not show the truth of what really happened. A documentary filmmaker should show you what really happened. Not manipulate the audience because he likes a false version of events better or because it makes a better movie.

So of course people are going to question everything the see in the movie.

I mean I was so stocked for Anvil when they hit the Japanese stage and the crowd was huge and full of crazy Japanese Anvil fans. Now seeing the true order of events, I feel manipulated.

**************************
Are you a bug Bill Murray?

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[–] iscream22 15 years ago

Nice sig amsyco13 WU TANG FOREVER!

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[–] amsyco13 15 years ago

Nice. A few people have gotten it from the movie, but no one ever got the Wu Tang reference out of it. That line has always cracked me up.

**************************
Are you a bug Bill Murray?

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[–] djsnafu23 13 years ago

Forever and ever!!!!!!!

myspace.com/bankrupteuropeans

Coz lifes too short to listen to Madlib

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[–] tgallo 15 years ago

The recording took place BEFORE the show. They CD was in the can before the show. As you can see in the film, Lips sent out copies in hopes to get it distributed. The Japanese promoter ended up hearing it (from what I have heard). That would mean the recording needed to take place for the show to happen.

The only part that was out of sequence was the self release of the CD....that took place after the show...the rest is chronological.

That being said....I don't necessarily agree with Sacha's decision to change the order. It does cast doubt on everything...especially on those not in the know.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] tgallo 15 years ago

My repsonse was not for you...it was for amsyco13

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

Which was apparently deleted by the administrator for some strange reason...

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 15 years ago

The Story of Anvil did not have a happy ending as depicted in the film. It had a happy middle and a truly sad ending.

I thought the story was sad even when I didn't know that the Japan concert was placed out of order. Now I feel even more strongly that it's sad. They just need to accept that their chance for stardom is long gone, and that they won't is just sad. And it's dishonest that the documentary didn't show us that truth.

So how many of those CDs did they sell back in Canada and the US?

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

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[–] architectimage 15 years ago

That Japanese fan came up to them and told them they had fans in Japan. This was established during their tour.

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"That Japanese fan came up to them and told them they had fans in Japan. This was established during their tour."

What's that got to do with the price of cheese in Africa?

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[–] architectimage 15 years ago

Hahaha....you know what? It doesn't, come to think of it.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

Yeah, I feel the same way. Just that simple manipulation renders the whole film very much less than a documentary and casts doubt on so many other aspects of the story.

It's a extremely dishonest approach that unfortunately is somewhat of a trend of late.

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"That scene is followed by the delivery of the Anvil CDs in August, 2007, followed by the concert in October, 2006."

Wow. Good catch. And I didn't even notice the beards. I guess I was right that if they lied about the Loud Park concert as having happened after the delivery of the CD's then they must be lying about other sh!t in the film.

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[–] chimar29613 15 years ago

Too bad the director chose to manipulate the audience by placing events out of order. That is just blatantly dishonest. Now it's hard to believe anything they showed in the movie. Thanks Mongo for pointing it out.

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

You really know nothing! You have no personal connection to any one involved,in the making of this movie, Do you feel lied to, are you questioning the truth?, The sequence of events?, are you people completely pointed. Any time you want to bring this public, in a big broad media coverage, I will be there to challenge all your accusations. I KNOW , and your way off, What film school did you go to! And if you dont like the way doc. film making is made.. make your own!! Get off your high horses. I will be watching for your next movie Mongo.

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Some times you just have to shake the tree to see what really falls to the ground,I am glad you took time to speak to "SomeOne" connected to the film to give you the Lowdown. Anvil groupie nutballs!!! A total of three people took umbridge with you, Really what would you expect hundreds of thousands of fans burning the ANVIL in effigy. on a facebook site, to back up content that was taken out of context. The story is way more than that, Dig as deep as you want,you will never besmirch the blood sweat and tears Steve and Robb have put into this, and to have Sascha Document it. Do you honestly think he tried to put something over you. Why?

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

Dude... it's right there in black and white. The story is presented in a very linear fashion and clearly shows multiple events out of chronological order.

If we're missing something, why don't you enlighten us with your inside scoop?

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[–] RobVentura 15 years ago

He has no inside scoop. He's a nutball Anvil groupie who can't handle the truth. The interview with the KNAC disc jockey took place in 2006, the meeting with the EMI exec took place in 2007, Lips received the box of CDs in 2007, and Anvil played the Loud Park concert in 2006. That's when the events occurred but they showed those events out of order so they'd have a happy ending. Watch how Lips' beard changes from scene to scene. Beard, no beard, beard. Totally manipulative.

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[–] chimar29613 15 years ago

Right on Mongo and Rob....this also means that the scene where Lips takes the phone call telling him that he has a gig in Japan was completely staged....what a ripofff!

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[–] robert0777 15 years ago

And so what?

Are you going to discard the fact that these guys had a hard life fighting for what they believed? just for a change of scenes? The facts are still there, it's their lives there. Instead a sad ending you got a happy one, most people like happy endings and that was what the director was thinking.

I don't understand these people storming on a glass of water on a internet forum, perhaps you should get a life, or something to fight for.

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[–] chimar29613 15 years ago

"Are you going to discard the fact that these guys had a hard life fighting for what they believed?"

What does that have to do with the fact thatthe director LIED about what happened? Do you like it when people lie to your face?

"most people like happy endings and that was what the director was thinking"

I thought Anvil wassupposed to be a documentary not a fairy tale...I guess you believe in Santa Claus too.

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"Instead a sad ending you got a happy one, most people like happy endings and that was what the director was thinking."

Oh-brother.

In a *documentary* the events depicted are supposed to be REAL, not fictionalized reality.

How is this so hard for people to understand? THEY LIED.

Not only is the order of events that occurred (in real life) now in question, but the actual events shown in the film are in question.

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

sorry mongo but you are now questioning the actual events of the movie? I will be more than happy to debate all and any questions you have! No one cares about your ridiculous LIE campaign . Wheres the BEEF!!! You will not get 15 minutes on this one. The I.D.A. just awarded it tonight with the Best DOCUMENTARY .

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"Best DOCUMENTARY", huh?

That still doesn't negate the fact that THEY LIED.

Oh and by the way, A!TSoA producer Rebecca Yeldham is director of the L.A. Film Festival, which is based in the same town as the I.D.A.

Dare I elaborate on other relationships between the two?

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

My o My!!! Dare you!!!! Now your bringing Rebecca's credability in to this now? Any other LIES you need to get off your chest?

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

You really know nothing about the BAND. Your ridiculous accusations, and chronological fudgeing does nothing to discredit them as people and musicians, If you cared and were as a big of a fan. you would turn down inane rederick. Get over your *beep* extended reality T.V. wank. The I.D.A. voted and gave this movie all the Fvuking critical acclaim it deserves, This group incidentally consists of only DOC. makers. Are you saying they all drank the Koolaid. Your ledge is getting smaller and smaller, Painting yourself into a corner is no EXIT! Getting the Best Movie and best music Awards goes much further than anything you could ever do to discredit an amazing true life story!!!!!!

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"Your ridiculous accusations, and chronological fudgeing does nothing to discredit them as people and musicians..."

No sh!t.

And

I didn't do the "fudging," Sacha did the fudging. Look at it:

http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn467/manohwar/081407.jpg

http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn467/manohwar/101406.jpg

Fudge.

They receive their new CD's then get a call about a big concert then go play the concert (which took place over a year before they received the CD's).

That, in a nutshell, is a LIE.

In case you forgot, go watch the movie again. See how the last event shown in the film takes place last while in reality it took place BEFORE events shown before it in the film?

Who drank the koolaid again?

This film depicts about as much of an "amazing true life story" than it does a bunch of deliberately contrived scenarios and timelines.

Sorry, but an award from some LA based org doesn't mean they didn't LIE in the film.

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

So what!! The dates on the boxes have no bearing on the concert in Japan what so ever!!

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[–] chimar29613 15 years ago

"The dates on the boxes have no bearing on the concert in Japan what so ever!!"

The film is a LIE...the director is a LIAR

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Do all the smashing your army of 2 can do, You will never ever change anyones opinion as long as the movie gets recognized for the wounderful piece of work that it is. Your heart must of sunk when the movie picked up the two awards last night. LIE LIAR LIAR LIE thats it you have been lied too?. Stick Mongos Unicorn on your wall Warm up some Eggnog and have a merry what ever!!! You can always go on to youtube and listen to a holiday fav. of mine a song by ANVIL called BULLSH"T A nice toetapper festive. HO HO HO

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[–] Howlin Wolf 14 years ago

There's normally a disclaimer at the end of the film stating that 'Certain events may have been altered... '; yadda yadda - have you checked for one of those?

Love United. Hate Glazers.

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[–] obliv 12 years ago

I really suggest you check out other documentaries for their accuracy, then. Films are manipulated ALL THE TIME for story purposes. Documentary REALLY just means that they shot real people's lives, without hiring actors or using a script, etc. These days its more a "style" than any promise that everything happened exactly the way it happened. Do you think reality TV is exactly as depicted? The number one goal for ANY filmmaker is to tell a compelling and dramatic story. The fact that they changed the order of events isn't even something I would consider a "lie". Everything happened, regardless. And i fact, the BIGGEST event that happened to the band isn't shown at all, and that is the effect the film had on their career. Honest;y, it doesn't matter what show they played or when the cd was released because the film was the event that made the single biggest difference in their lives and careers, and everything before that was really just up and down, a solid show or two followed by the frustration of mediocrity. It would have pretty much continued like that until the film came out. This idea that it is somehow less than valid because it isn't a daily diary of their lives for a year and a half is a little naive. but hey, good catch on that. I didn't really pay that much attention to the dates and what have you... seriously. That took some sharp eyes. so good catch.

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[–] Howlin Wolf 14 years ago

The events are still real because they DID happen, they're just out of order. Nowhere is it stated that documentaries have to show everything chronologically; whether or not you think that they should is a totally different matter.

Love United. Hate Glazers.

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[–] oldewill 15 years ago

HEY buy their CD make Anvil's dream come true
buy the movie ..hey why not buy all their crap
make em rich
give all your money to em

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[–] RobVentura 15 years ago

@Jon Death: "I think this movie was a very clever fabrication."

The events apparently weren't fabricated but they were shown out of order, which is manipulative to say the least. If the last thing shown wasn't really the last thing that happened then it's not a documentary, it's reality TV, like the Real World or Survivor.

When I saw the movie I thought it was too good to be true, and like most things in life, Anvil! The Story of Anvil was too good to be true, too. How disappointing.

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[–] dirtydeen 15 years ago

i don't get it. they played that show in japan. it wasn't a lie. it doesn't matter when it happened. it doesn't change anything. what matters is that it DID happen. they also showed parts of the interview with slash, and other parts at the end. i don't think anyone assumes that slash must have been interviewed twice. the story is tragic, no matter how you look at it. clearly, rob and lips have lost a lot more money than they have made in the 30 years of being a band. the only true "happy ending" is what has happened as a result of this film.

austin film critics association tabs "anvil! the story of anvil" as best documentary feature.

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[–] chimar29613 15 years ago

A documentary film director makes a film...he shows events A, B, C, D, E, F in order and makes you think they happened in that order...in fact the events happened A, B, F, C, D, E, but the director doesn't tell you that...that's a lie in my book

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[–] RobVentura 15 years ago

Chimar of course you're right but apparently it was more important for Sasha Gervasi to create a marketable story arc than to tell the audience what actually happened in the correct order of events. If he showed Lips meeting with the KNAC DJ in 2006, and then playing the Loud Park concert in Japan in 2006, and then meeting with the EMI exec in 2007, and then receiving the CDs in 2007, which is what really happened, then it wouldn't have been as good a story. Anvil is a nice movie, nice story, but totally manipulative and ultimately disappointing.

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"i don't get it. they played that show in japan. it wasn't a lie. it doesn't matter when it happened. it doesn't change anything. what matters is that it DID happen."

doc·u·men·ta·ry
adj.

Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film.

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[–] oldewill 15 years ago

TRUE true true Mongo Lloyd

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Ho Ho HO Mongo Loyd merry christmas!!!!!! and I hope your christmas wishes come true. Chilmar and bob the same good cheer for you two!! and oldewil too, nearly forgot!! Its tough keeping the continuity straight here. You meet the nicest people here on the imdb boards. HO HO HO!!!!!!

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[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 15 years ago

i don't get it. they played that show in japan. it wasn't a lie. it doesn't matter when it happened. it doesn't change anything.

It's not just whether A happened before or after B. It's about cause and effect. The documentary tells us that they put out their 13th CD, and because of that CD, they got the concert gig in Japan. But how can that be true if the concert actually took place before the CD was released?

Lips says that a promoter heard the CD and invited them to do this Japan concert. Now some have speculated that the promoter heard a demo copy, but does anybody have ANY proof of this? Besides, that is NOT what was said. The film wants us to believe a cause and effect that may not have actually occurred.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

what do you want a sworn statement from the promoter. Whats next? What is the real agenda here.. I smell a bad odour emanating.

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[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 15 years ago

Sounds like I struck a nerve. Get over yourself msg777. I am at least open enough to the possibility that it was a promo CD, and am asking for any evidence that was the case. It is a legitimate question that I asked. You just can't address it. Which leads me to conclude that it WASN'T a promo CD, and the documentary is simply deliberately misleading. Your getting your panties into a knot about it only confirms this. If you had any information of substance, you would have provided it.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Its funny, My nerve is not shaken, I am quite resolve in my knowledge and perspective.seems like the only panties in a bind are yours still tightly wound up in an awfully large space. Why is this doc. movie misleading, because you and a chosen few of your buds have spoken, now the entire movie has to be fact checked for validity, so make a list and submit to the people who made it, make a phone call use your creative forces and get out there, instead of your assumed anonymous faceless accusations but I doubt you could even bluster a wind in front of a real camera.

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[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 15 years ago

Oh, I say asking what "agenda" is going on shows something is shaken in that brain of yours. Hmm, what agenda would someone have on a discussion board? How about, to discuss the movie? And that a purported documentary seems to have deliberately misled the audience is a valid point of discussion. Other people who have made the same comments are not my "buds", just other people with critical thinking skills.

"Why is this doc misleading?" you ask, as if you didn't know. As I stated and you have not refuted, this movie indicates that the concert not only happened after the CD release, but because of the CD release. The order of events presented is not true as a matter of fact. I asked anyone for indication that there was a demo CD that the Japanese promoter could have gotten to make "concert happened because of the CD" part of the movie true, and instead of providing some kind of proof, in spite of "the resolve of your knowledge", all you do is whine that "the entire movie has to be fact checked." Uh, where did I say that? I asked a legitimate question about one thing in the movie, and you go off the deep end. I'd say you're the one with the agenda.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Well you got me there MTBGF I do have an agenda my undies are all bunched up and I am flattered that you think I am a person of importance to give you all the information you want answered. Sorry Dont have the goods to give. If I personally wanted my questions answered I would go to the source, plain and simple. Sorry for lumping you in with the other critical thinkers and referring to you as BUD'S, but I guess your all on your own "Agendas" The Truth is out there. if you really want the answers go to the ones that know. Do you think maybe Dexter was in a dream sequence,When he saw his wife in that bathtub? Now thats some good S..t!!!!

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[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 15 years ago

Hmm, I like discussing movies and post on the boards of many/most movies I have seen. Anvil is just one movie I've posted about recently, and on the Anvil board I have posted not just on this topic, but many other threads about the movie and the band itself. But msg777's posting history shows the username was created on November 18th, and ALL the posts are on the Anvil board; further, all attack the people who point out that the movie is deliberately misleading. msg777 apparently has no interest in adding to the threads about why Anvil didn't make it, discussion of how influential they were and whether they are actually good or not, their friendship, the doc's similarities to Spinal Tap, accounts of people who have actually seen Anvil in concert then or now, etc.

So it's pretty funny that msg777 accuses everyone else of having an "agenda". The username has been used solely to attack people who point out that the film was misleading about the order of events. It would be one thing if the attacks had substance, but msg77 admits to having no information to refute what is being posted.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Well I guess I have nothing pertinent to bring to the table for all the truth seekers out there, which is fine by me. It humors me to see so many now concerned with and disturbed by the movie and the lack of continuity and events that played out in whatever order they played out in,I am an Anvil fan have been for over 30 years, seen it all and I will not go down that line with you, Take up your beefs with the people that made it, if I wanted an answer I would go to the source , instead of this intellectual fishing expedition. Its not that I dont have the "goods" but I choose not to discuss them. with a faceless nameless wannabe. .If you want the lowdown move your mouse to other sites do your research, fill in the blanks and maybe you will get it!! and I will be Grateful for it. You gotta admit Dexter really pulled one out of the hat Eh!!! Some of my "Attacks" were warranted, they come in all shapes and sizes. many of the team were as obtuse a group I have ever seen!! I guess there sitting waiting there turn to debase once again. Quid pro quo clarice !!! Merry Christmas to all!!!!!

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[–] chimar29613 15 years ago

msg777 is a kook Anvil fan from Facebook...he can't stand it that some of us figured out that the movie is a fraud, so the only thing he can do is write his nonsense and try and attack people who have correctly pointed out that the director of Anvil misled the audience about the order of events and invented a happy ending and who know what else...msg777 knows nothing and has no insight into anything related to Anvil other than he's a fan...no one has attacked the band members just the movie director who's a big fat LIAR

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

A kook Anvil Fan your too kind chimar, thats about the nicest thing any ones ever called me. I knew I had a meaning in life thanks so much for pointing that out for me. Wow never felt so much camaraderie as I do here. You got it wrong. You have taken this to a very personal level, you have travelled through facebook many times trying to expose the lie. You turned every one off. Your Lie Liar Lyeing, Liar Liar diatribes against Sasha have won you no favor. they are looked at as a personal attack .My nonsense is my business you can reply or ignore it, you always do the former. And your Big fat Liar line, with words like that BUD the only attention you will get is from the sparrows singing in your head.

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[–] oldewill 15 years ago

Season's Greetings msg777 and all my "BUD'S" on this thred
Anvil still SUCK Stomp Stomp Stomp :P

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[–] RobVentura 15 years ago

>>If you had any information of substance, you would have provided it.<<

How can msg777 provide any information of substance when the evidence that the order of events was manipulated is actually in the film for all to see?

The scene where Lips met with William Howell, the DJ at KNAC, took place in 2006. Here's a picture to prove it:

http://www.flixster.com/photos/william-howell-anvil-the-true-story-of-anvil-lips--djwill-12275663

MongoLloyd already showed that Lips received the box of CDs in August, 2007. It's right there in the film for all to see.

Anvil played the Loud Park concert which is shown at the END of the film as the culmination of their efforts in October, 2006. That's an irrefutable fact.

Not to mention how Lips' beard appears and reappears in successive scenes. In the KNAC studio he has a beard. When he meets with the EMI executive in Canada (which took place in 2007) he has no beard. When he receives the box of CDs in August, 2007, no beard. When he supposedly takes the call from the promoter about the concert in Japan, he has no beard. When he shows up for the big show in Japan, he has the beard.

Nothing msg777 or any other nutball groupie Anvil fan says can change what really happened. It took Sasha Gervasi to rearrange things to make a happy ending. Anvil is therefore not a documentary but just a reality TV show like Survivor or Top Chef -- phony, contrived and manipulative.

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Beard no Beard Beard No Beard Beard no Beard, man o man Bob what an eye. You want me to provide you with information, dont have any, I am just a nutball groupie fan taking umbridge with you and all the Sasha haters out there. I see you equally hate Micheal Moore also, nothing like discrediting film makers because you dont like the way they put a "Doc" together, happy endings . BOB

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

This was copied off facebook, This is Lips reply:

Lips Anvil:
"Guys it's a simple answer...the cd was completed before we went to Japan as it happens in the movie...it's true....we didn't actually manufacture until later...so? The cd was sent out as burned copies and mp3s to find a deal and or gigs which it did...what's the issue?"
November 23 at 11:58pm

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[–] chimar29613 15 years ago

>>The cd was sent out as burned copies and mp3s to find a deal and or gigs which it did...what's the issue?<<

The issue is that the concert in Japan didn't happen at the end as the movie showed...yeah you didn't manufacture until later...so that should have been shown AFTER the 2006 concert in Japan...NOT BEFORE IT!...Lips just doesn't want to admit that his film is misleading and therefore phony...too bad Lips...Sasha Gervasi made a cartoon not a documentary

Keep trying msg777...too bad the evidence of Sasha Gervasi's LIE is right in the movie...OOOOOOOPS!

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

OOOOOOPS, how much correspondence have you made to lips had in the past two months,How many hit and runs have you posted over facebook to try to start your revolution, how many people really give you the ounce of attention you crave? how many critics other Doc.makers look at you for the last word. how did Sasha pull this over there eyes. Two years and counting. the movie is still receiving critical acclaim and collecting award after award, you can not denie that, and film critics with more cred. than all you Pseudo this is the way its done doc. wannabes, keep singing the praises of this movie. Are they all stupid!! what do you got that they are all missing ? It must burn you to the core that the movie is successful. With every award this movie recieves you retreat back to mount a new attack. The more you go on, the more suspect you all look!!!!! You Can Never Break IT IT Will Never Bend, The Anvil Was Forged In Fire.

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"...the cd was completed before we went to Japan as it happens in the movie...it's true....we didn't actually manufacture until later...so? The cd was sent out as burned copies and mp3s to find a deal and or gigs which it did...what's the issue?"

OK...

That still doesn't explain why Sacha showed us events "record tracks" - "receive CD's" - "get gig" - "play gig" when in reality how it happened was "record tracks" - "get gig" - "play gig" - "receive CD's".

Why even show that 15 second (or so scene) with the CD's in the van at all?

.

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[–] RobVentura 15 years ago

>>Why even show that 15 second (or so scene) with the CD's in the van at all?<<

Mongo, you're leaving out the scene where Anvil meets with the EMI executive.

Shown: record tracks, meet with DJ, meet with EMI, receive CDs, get gig, play gig
Actual: record tracks, meet with DJ, get gig, play gig, meet with EMI, receive CDs

Why show it? Because it fit in the fantasy story arc the director wanted to convey.

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

fantasy story Arc are you guys for real!!! is this where you go to load up!!! Sorry for looking!!!!!!!!!! I feel so dirty....... Oh dont forget that scene mongo LOL LOL LOL !!!!

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[–] RobVentura 15 years ago

Yeah, the story arc, the plot, the part of the narrative structure which provides the storyline -- introducing the characters, creating conflict and drama, and reaching a climax -- like, say, we meet Lips and Robb, they struggle mightily to succeed, and they triumphantly play the big concert at the end of the story. You know, fiction.

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

>>Mongo, your leaving out the scene where Anvil meets with the EMI executive<< Hey Bob make sure your BUD'S are all on the same page!!! Seems like your the spiritual leader of the truth seekers. I see they dont make a move with out your scrutiny. I always knew bob that you were a cut above.... Mongo the puppet??? This has turned into your own little side show.

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"I always knew bob that you were a cut above.... Mongo the puppet??? This has turned into your own little side show."

The bottom line is, this film is not a pure documentary. How is this not obvious?

.

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[–] chimar29613 15 years ago

@msg777: "how much correspondence have you made to lips had in the past two months"

Actually I didn't contact Lips...he contacted ME...here's what he said:

"Hey Chimar, I'm trying to comprehend your observation. I sent burned cds to Japan...one of the many you see in the front seat of the car I was driving in Los Angeles. You have concluded that I meant manufactured cds....that's what you assume....... but that is never actually stated exactly what I meant by "I've sent the cd all over the place" I did but it wasn't only unmanufactured copies but also emailing mp3s. I know you are mistrusting about this but sometimes when something is so honest it's too hard to believe because we've been lied to about everything. It was such a miracle that we got a show in Japan that it was difficult to even believe it myself. Sacha had told me a year before we needed to somehow find a way to get a show in Japan. He really needed it to happen sometime in the middle of October. I began sending cds out when I finished mixing it in LA a few months ahead of the show in Japan. My friend Mike Milic who is listed in the special thanks gave me the address of a Japanese promoter who he knew personally. I sent him the cd with a request to possibly come to Japan. I finally was sent an email telling me he was going to call me at a specific time with an offer. I called Brent our Toronto camera guy to come over as I was going to be receiving a call about a possible show in Japan. If anything is confusing it's seeing the late date of manufacturing but it hasn't really any impact on the truth. I lived all this... I don't know what your motives are or why you're so disbelieving....We've done nothing to mislead anyone...all is how it was. We received the manufactured cds after Japan....so? The cd was completed and was sent out before the actual manufacturing as burned cds and mp3s...so what exactly is the issue...what is it that you don't believe? I have nothing to hide or lie about....as naked as I am in the picture...I bared my soul...no shame no regrets..... .....I'm the same person as depicted in that film...I'm real and I'm not living a lie or creating any....believe it or not....Steve(LIPS)Kudlow"

Here's what I said back:

"Lips...A few things make the movie suspicious...the movie shows you being interviewed by William Howell in 2006...then you receive your order of CDs dated 08/14/07...then you play your triumphant concert in Japan -- which was presented in the movie as being the result of the CD release -- on 10/14/06...There's no dispute that those events actually happened...but they didn't happen in the order shown...the thing that was shown last didn't happen last...instead it shows 2006 then 2007 then 2006 in a straight line...that's not right in a documentary...it's manipulative and it's not cool...sorry...and I'm not the only one who noticed either..."

Here's what he said back:

"We went to the radio station during the mixing of the album...before Japan...it was a burned cd from the studio DJWill put on the radio. We had quite a few as a matter of fact...the section of me going to record companies I had some in the car. I'm still at a loss as to what the huge issue is. Is this still unclear as to what transpired? If I'm personally telling you there is no intention on anyones part to mislead or misrepresent the facts. If anyone should or would be upset about things like this it would be me!! If there was something really incorrect I would have flipped out. I hate inaccuracies...Truth be told I never noticed the dates on the box because I didn't think it mattered. I felt the scene was only depicting we manufactured ourselves. It wasn't telling you when. It makes sense to me it's after Japan that we manufactured because that's the truth. Seeing that date pointed out didn't prove one way or another of anything other than we manufactured cds ourselves. They all represent facts that are all completely true...the overall picture is exact what more could one say..."

So even Lips himself can't explain why events were shown out of order...even your own hero can't figure it out

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

And who is your hero? Let me guess!!!

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

how about the rest!!!! You left out the best part......

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Bud, chilmar, BULLETIN......... NO ONE CARES!!!!!!!!....................

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

No one cares, more importantly, about this doc or the band I'm afraid.

.

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Maybe in your Universe LLoyd, closeing your eyes and wishing that it will go all away wont work. There going on tour next month, maybe they will hit your city. Check them out before you pass judgement>.

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[–] oldewill 15 years ago

If its less than $20.00 I will B there just to yell "You Suck" in fact im looking up the tour dates right now

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] MongoLloyd 15 years ago

"Maybe in your Universe LLoyd, closeing your eyes and wishing that it will go all away wont work. There going on tour next month, maybe they will hit your city. Check them out before you pass judgement>. "

I'm not closing my eyes and wishing anything, chief. I have nothing against the band, as I mentioned. The truth is, judging by the current zeitgeist, Anvil is very much more of an oddity than an impending success story.

Will new and old fans embrace a metal band fronted by 2 senior citizens? If they rock well, I hope so, but I'm afraid it's not very likely, despite how many of their posters you have on your bedroom wall.

.

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

The embrace has begun, Mongo click your mouse to the other side of the dial. senior citizens? your joking right !!!! Your knowledge of Metal Mongofloyd,?? ...leave my posters out of this!!! now you've struck a nerve!!! I am rattled, where is my ritalin............. Metal on Metal bro!!!!! Cheif!!!!

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[–] tgallo 15 years ago

many of the classic metal bands have members just as old or older...age is not an issue

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[–] MyLuck 15 years ago

I just finished watching the movie and absolutely loved it. Was a bit disappointed to find this thread. The change in sequence is a lie, but in the scheme of things, I believe it's an inconsequential white lie.
You weren't supposed to think that the cd release triggered the show in Japan.
We knew that they've always had a good fan base in Japan and the concert would have happened regardless.
I was mostly disappointed to read something in the interaction between Lips and Chimar. The part revealing that Sacha needed for the movie to end with a Japanese concert. This was his intent before filming even began.
Without Sacha pushing for it, it seems that the Japan concert wouldn't have happened. In that way, he took himself out of the observer role and became a writer.

Apart from the chronological switches, the one part in the movie that seemed contrived was the English lawyer that came up to them after the gig where the promoter ripped them off. That dialogue seemed very contrived to me. I hope I'm wrong.

All that being said, I still loved the movie. Director aside, I believe the guys of the band were the real deal and I'm grateful I got a chance to see their world.

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[–] tgallo 15 years ago

English lawyer was very real and very drunk. Sacha had a hard time tracking him down later to get permission to use him in the movie.

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[–] MuchToBeGratefulFor 15 years ago

You weren't supposed to think that the cd release triggered the show in Japan.

There was a scene where Lips says that a promoter heard the CD and called to book them for the show in Japan. So I believe that is exactly what the film makers wanted us to think.

You must be the change you seek in the world. -- Gandhi

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[–] tgallo 15 years ago

They did hear the CD. Recall earlier in the movie he was submitting burned copies to labels. It was out there (just not released yet)....promoter heard a copy.

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[–] tgallo 15 years ago

well put easypz

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

the three Amigos, all puppets on a string!!! next....

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[–] chimar29613 15 years ago

>>>>And who is your hero? Let me guess!!!<<<<

My hero is a person who doesn't LIE and pass off his phony documentary as fact when it just a LIE like the LIAR Sasha Gervasi

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[–] msg777 15 years ago

Get over it Chilmar>>> why is this movie so stuck up your annal canal!!! Who is your hereo!!!!!

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[–] GottaLoveItAgain 15 years ago

I cant believe how long this thread is...

I guess musicians sending tracks from a product before it's been mass produced is just unheard of, even if they do own the master.

Just because Loud Park happened before ...but was showed at the end, shouldnt be a big freaking deal..the material on TI13 is still responsible for getting them the damned gig. wow..you REALLY need to GET OVER it. Go have sex...even if you have to pay for it....damn

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[–] gallonofwood 15 years ago

You're all taking this way too seriously. This isn't a documentary about genocide or sex slaves. It's a documentary about two lifelong friends living their dreams and doing what they love together. The story told was as truthful as it needed to be to convey that.

They are on tour right now. Some nights they'll be playing to packed houses of old school metal heads. Some nights there will be 20 disinterested douchebags. Rob and Lips will be there, rocking their asses off either way.

And you'll be at home with sand in your vagina about the "authenticity" of an uplifting movie about them made by an affectionate and talented fan. Congrats to you.

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[–] syeahskate 15 years ago

I found another inconsistency in the chronological order of the events depicted in the film,

in about 20:00 the band goes on a European tour and theres this little montage of some shows in various countries, one of them being Thessaloniki, Greece. After various scenes of touring in 27:00 as the titles said, in Munich Germany where that blonde lady screams at the club guy, one the band members says to another that he will be not playing tonight and so on..In the scene right after Lips is warned that he might even be sued by his buddy who wants to quit the band etc, This scene is shot in Thessaloniki,Greece. I can see Greek letters on shops, a Greek bus is on the road, Greek kiosks, handrails on the street which are only found in Thessaloniki, etc.

This way of cutting in non chronological order helps to develop the story better, but if this technique is used in more "serious" documentaries, then it should be even called manipulative to the audience. The debate about what is documentary and what is not is a huge one, and there are all sorts of documentaries, even those which are completely staged but want to pass on a true message.

However talking about this film, thought it was really great and touching, dont really care that there is a chronological inconsistency cause the story is not about an worldwide important issue or anything, its more about high hopes and relationships, all the events happened for real with the real characters, the people in the band are awesome,theres tons of cool footage from all over those guys lifes, so...so what if its a bit staged, it was fun and moving.

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