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Licorice Pizza VS There Will Be Blood, The Master, And Phantom Thread

posted 2 years ago by ecarle (14979)
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We've had Paul Thomas Anderson (PTA) films for about 25 years now.

Evidently, that number is open to question.

His first film was "Hard Eight" which seems to have been released in 1996 OR 1997. Which is important given that "Boogie Nights" was released in 1997. In any event, Hard Eight comes first and Boogie Nights comes second...

...and they play rather like Reservoir Dogs and then Pulp Fiction for Quentin Tarantino(QT.) A "first small film that caused critics to take notice" followed by a SECOND big breakthrough film.

Of course, QT's splash was bigger. Reservoir Dogs was a bigger deal than Hard Eight, and Pulp Fiction was a bigger deal than Boogie Nights.

But Boogie Nights was certainly big ENOUGH, and for his next two films, PTA managed to grab two very big stars -- Tom Cruise(Magnolia) and Adam Sandler(yep, don't deny it -- and getting him to "go serious" was a big deal.)

If QT is a "bigger deal financially" than PTA, I'd say the reason is simple: QT makes films of violence and action and people getting killed and, well, audiences LIKE that. Whether crime thriller, Western, or war movie -- people die in QT movies. He ALMOST went a whole movie without murders in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood..but then brought on the table-turning Manson killings (OF the Mansons) at the end. Plus the fake TV Western shootings en route, and Brad Pitt's early on beat-down of another Manson goon.

And what of PTA during these same years?

Unlike QT, PTA rather "split" his movies:

Put aside "Hard Eight"(which is set, I believe, in Vegas and Reno.)

Then you get:

"Hip modern Los Angeles movies":

Boogie Nights
Magnolia
Punch Drunk Love
Inherent Vice
Licorice Pizza

and THEN you get:

"Elegant prestige pieces":

There Will Be Blood
The Master
Phantom Thread

I'm already in some trouble here. If I try to split away the three "prestige movies" from the "hip Los Angeles movies"... I can't remember. Did There Will be Blood and The Master have Los Angeles scenes? (Albeit historical ones?)

And of the "hip modern Los Angeles movies" fully 3 of them are NOT set modern day. Inherent Vice and Licorice Pizza are set in the 70's; Boogie Nights splits right down the middle- fun 70's to dark 80s.

Still, I think I got my main point down:

There Will Be Blood
The Master
Phantom Thread

are...

roughly...

"Merchant-Ivory movies." You know, those impeccable, staid, elegant, oh-so-serious and somewhat snobbish movies that are made for a "rarefied audience." Room With a View, Howards End, The Remains of the Day.

QT , in defending his movies against charges of their being "offensive" said something like "Hey, you know what's REALLY offensive -- those horseshit Merchant-Ivory movies!" (Or something like that. You could look it up.)

Personally, I don't feel that way about Merchant-Ivory movies. I acknowledge that they are beloved in some quarters, particularly by critics, but also by very intelligent movie goers of a certain viewpoint.

And I am NOT the intended audience or customer for a Merchant-Ivory movie. I don't hate them, I just don't think I'm invited to them.

I'm primarily a guy who likes, and has always liked -- genre movies. Hitchcock thrillers. Peckinpah Westerns. Don Siegel action(Dirty Harry, Charley Varrick.) Scorsese in his gangster mode. And yes, QT (who gives you the "bonus" of great dialogue spoken by top actors along WITH the violence.)

But its not just action and violence. There is no action or violence in Licorice Pizza. What the movie is -- what I respond to -- is the love story and the 70's nostalgia (the LOS ANGELES 70's nostalgia -- I grew up there.)

And here's the thing:

I can remember practically every scene and every line in Licorice Pizza, particularly the final line of the movie.

But I can't remember hardly anything about Phantom Thread or The Master. And I've come to wonder WHY.

I think I've found my answer: those two movies are "Merchant-Ivory movies" under another cover(as INTENDED by PTA - whaddya know, he SOMETIMES wants to BE Merchant-Ivory), and I neither much enjoyed either film when watching them nor remembered much about them later.

I will stipulate that PTA is a great director and ALL three of these films are of equal greatness "objectively": The Master, Phantom Thread, Licorice Pizza.

Its just that I love only one of them, and simply don't care about the other two.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Guess that makes me a bad guy but it also speaks to a rule I have had about movie stars that I think now can be affixed to directors:

"The movie, not the movie star."

This rule applies best to the long-gone Paul Newman, who made a LOT of different movies in his career. Truth is, a lot of them weren't that good --Rally Round the Flag, Boys, A New Kind of Love, The Secret Life of Harry Frigg, The MacIntosh Man, Quintet..."

...but, every so occasionally, Newman would stumble into a GREAT one: The Hustler, Hud, Harper, Hombre, Cool Hand Luke, Butch Cassidy, The Sting, Absence of Malice, The Verdict, The Color of Money, Nobody's Fool.

"The movie, not the movie star."

Well, with PTA, its "the movie not the movie director."

Except ALL his movies are great. Its just that I have no interest in two of them(The Master, Phantom Thread) and I even find the third of that group(There Will Be Blood) pretty Merchant-Ivoryish even with a couple of murders in it.

Speaking of murders, one thing about Boogie Nights: in addition to all the porn-star sex(tastefully filmed) in the movie, it sure has plenty of violence. Several people are shot to death, one commits suicide, and two are beaten to a pulp. Boogie Nights isn't a thriller, but it had plenty of "sex and violence" and that put PTA on the map. I doubt that The Master or Phantom Thread would have gotten to such a broad audience -- though I expect critical acclaim and Oscar noms would have been there.

And hey: There Will Be Blood and Phantom Thread both have that rare thing -- a great Daniel Day Lewis performance. He got an Oscar for one, and declared the other his 'final one." No way I'm gonna diss a DDL movie...again...I stipulate greatness in all of PTAS work.

But I also stipulate some boredom and that Merchant-Ivory feel in some of his work.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

This interests me: PTA brought, I felt, the same kind of auteur-expressive detail and theme to "Licorice Pizza" as he brought to Phantom Thread -- no matter what TYPE of movie he makes, we respond to the fact that he's one of our best writers AND directors -- whether adapting someone's novel or creating his own story.

That said, a self-indictment:

I can't remember how The Master ends. Indeed, I can only remember these elements:

A gorgeous shot at night of a "golden lit" pleasure ship floating under the Golden Gate bridge.

The photographic perfection yet comically mocking look of the "family and children photographs" taken by Joaquin Phoenix.

An early "up close and personal" psychological interrogation of Joaquin by Philip Seymour Hoffman (in which, as I recall, PSH's low-voiced mumbly authority was just as present as in his more fun character in Charlie Wilson's War, but I lilked THAT character better.)

PSH shouting "PIG-FK" at a guy who challenges his Scientology-like religion.

Joaquin later beating the crap out of that guy.

...and that's it.

Beautiful movie, The Master. Thought provoking. But I can barely remember it. I didn't much care for the subject matter or the characters.

Phantom Thread?

Elegance personified. Very Merchant-Ivory. Some Hitchcock-like detail in the close-ups, insert shots and montages. DDL's co-dependent relationship with his guardian-sister (a bit of Rebecca here.) The coming of the woman who will change everything(this is another love story and DDL and the young woman have some of that Gary-Alana conflict in them.) The threads hidden in the clothes.

And that soup....

And that's it. But at least I can remember how that one ended.

But what of Licorice Pizza? What do I remember of THAT?

Everything. Every scene , every line, every shot, every background song. Gary and Alana as nostalgic throwbacks to a time when I was young and knew people like that.

And a happy ending.

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Personally, I think that "There Will Be Blood," "The Master," and "Phantom Thread" have to be set aside and examined for being "that kind of film."

PTA seems much more "rough and ready and sexy and tough" in all those other movies, and (taking Hard Eight out, I haven't seen it since it came out), I rank THOSE this way:

Licorice Pizza(a late-breaking surprise in the PTA canon, to me)

Magnolia(loved the opening coincidence stories, voiced by the great Ricky Jay; loved all the character except the caterwauling women; loved PSH, loved Tom Cruise in look, character, and performance; loved the Aimee Mann songs and the portentious score; loved the FROGS and how they affected everything)

Boogie Nights("Put PTA on the map," but the movie is a lot meaner than Licorice Pizza, with bad ends coming for a lot of the characters...the sex was pretty great, though...you can't judge them.)

Inherent Vice (Son of The Big Lebowski, grandson of The Long Goodbye; Joaquin more funny and accessible than in The Master; great scene with Josh Brolin and Benecio del Toro, hot sex scene...Martin Short?)
Punch Drunk Love(Adam Sandler is always an acquired taste but he is surrounded here with Art and Love and brutish comedy. And weird colors and weird sounds.)

That's where the action is with PTA for me.

I wish the fans of TWBB, The Master, and Phantom Thread well. Great movies, all.

[–] DaveBowman2001 (517) 2 years ago

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

As to the LA thing. Yes the Master takes place in/around LA and many references to Scientology. Inherent vice is in the same area too...also Scientology refefences.

TWBB, though seems kinda like Texas, is also in the deserts of CA, I believe in the LA region. PTA made some point in interviews about his movies centering around LA

---

Thank you for that information, I simply couldn't remember or perhaps couldn't be sure even as I was watching it.

PTA made the San Fernando Valley his HQ for four films -- Boogie Nights, Magnolia, Punch Drunk Love, and Licorice Pizza -- and I suppose we can say those are "peas in a pod" except that two of those films are "period pieces" from the 70's and 80's. Still, they all look to be in the same place.

The other movies go other places, both inside Los Angeles and outside (does not The Master have a great shot of a fully lit pleasure boat gliding under the Golden Gate bridge in San Francisco at night?)