What plot holes? - Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen (2009) Discussion

[–] artimak 14 years ago

There are a billion threads about this already. Do some reading. Oh, and you may want to refresh your knowledge of proper comma usage. Your skills are weak, my young Padawan.

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[–] turock 14 years ago

Theres a billioin threads about things like shoelaces tied differently in different scenes, but none of them actually address plot holes.

While it sounds like you think there are plot holes I noticed you mentioned not a single one.

Be happy I break up paragraphs to make it easier to read and stop whining about grammatical errors they are insignifigant.

And incase you were going to correct my spelling I dont really care what is and what isnt mispelled.

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[–] artimak 14 years ago

Be happy I break up paragraphs to make it easier to read and stop whining about grammatical errors they are insignifigant. And incase you were going to correct my spelling I dont really care what is and what isnt mispelled

Way to stick it to the man, dude.

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[–] raginfanz 12 years ago

Someone needs to slap you in the face you arrogant prick.

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[–] Drappelfed2000 14 years ago

I tend to judge a movie on what it TRIES to do. If it tries to be campy and its campy then job well done.

Sooooooooooooooo...

If a film tries to be good but fails miserably (like this one did), does that mean you like it because it tried, or do you dislike it because it didn't succeed in what it tried to do?

Please excuse my "snarkiness". I'm just trying to understand your logic.

www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/797-T ransformers-Revenge

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[–] turock 14 years ago

This film didnt try to be good as you put it. It was intentionally ham fisted, grabbing the best bits and pieces of the cartoon and adding in a few new things (crude humor) for one.

This film didnt fail its budget was 200 million estimated and grosed 400 million. It was considered a success by the box office as well as the studio which is why they are making Dark of the Moon.

And Ill excuse your snarkiness Im not looking for a fight, I just wanted people to point out ACTUAL PLOT HOLES.

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[–] galahadfairlight 14 years ago

Plenty of plot hole have ACTUALLY been pointed out to you.

The film DID fail, because virtually everyone involved realised that Revenge of the Fallen wasn't quite the movie it should have been.

When you have the director admitting it wasn't all it should have been, you should stop deluding yourself otherwise.

A financially successful movie does not make a great movie.

Of course Dark of the Moon is being made, both previous movies made money, but its telling when Bay admits that some of the elements of the second movie will be toned down.

Dark of the Moon will have less goodwill toward it, and will need to garner a few big named positive reviews, otherwise it will do LESS business than either of the previous two movies.

Revenge of the Fallen wasn't intentionally ham fisted or crude, Bay without Spielbergs guidance was left to run riot and didn't fully understand what made the first movie the hit it was.

You've been given plot holes aplenty, I think this thread has run its course.

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[–] MisterJeff 14 years ago

About the Alice thing, what the *beep* was she even supposed to do? Get close enough to Sam to make out with him and then go into "kill everyone" mode and start blindly shooting up the campus? If so, mission accomplished *beep* retarded decepticons of the movieverse! The other decepticons could have easily crushed his head like a melon or just blown entirely to little pieces when they were capturing him and lost the information they needed forever, but that's okay because explosions are cool, right? Could they have really been that stupid?

Jetfire was in such *beep* condition that he was hardly capable of holding himself together, yet his body parts somehow super powered Optimus.

Also, they fixed Optimus after they resurrected him. That is, he still had the big *beep* hole in his chest from where Megatron stabbed him.

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[–] Drappelfed2000 14 years ago

Wow. I never thought of those things. It's amazing - this movie actually gets crappier with age.

www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/797-T ransformers-Revenge

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[–] MisterJeff 14 years ago

Just think of what I could notice if I didn't drink myself stupid every night.

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[–] whatchacallit 14 years ago

just putting my little 2 cents in but i liked the film overall. not to say it was a PERFECT movie, it wasn't even much of a really good film, but watchable if you are looking for some entertainment and the action wasn't too bad.

i was thinking about the cover up after Mission City but i mean theres also a possibility that if the united states goverment really wanted the alien stuff hidden they couldve poisoned the food of the people who witnessed the attack. I mean it kinda seems like a far fetched theory but if you look into it during prohibition the goverment had put poison in food to discourage the people from drinking too much alcohol.
as i said seems kind of a far fetched theory but i guess if some people do want to get really defensive about some plot holes you could say the goverment could pull it off.

plus it wasnt like the coverup was too good either.

it seems that alot of websites were competing with each other too prove what a bogus it was at an accelarated rate judging from ROTF.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] Clifford_Starfox 14 years ago

I have to say Deadpool, those are some quite well made points, but I do think you missed the mark on some;

*The Fallen sitting on his ass for thousand of years instead of going back to Earth before Prime and Megatron even came to Earth, what prevented him, was he too lazy

Notice the chair he was in? His body was connected to cables. Its quite strongly implied that whilst he was "sitting on his ass", he was on life-support.

And that's just if we ignore the tie-in comics... if we take those into account, the The Fallen had been imprisoned in a sarcophagus for around 17,000 years, and had only just been freed in present day.

*Why did the Ancient Egyptians built over the Harvester and not bother mentioning this to anyone and how the heck didn't the Archaeologist know it was there, they take samples of things which could've exposed the Harvester

The part about why Ancient Egyptians built over the Harvestor is definitely worth questioning, but as to why archeologists had never found it... only a small fraction of the interior of the particular Pyramid has ever been explored. Scientists take samples, yeah, but not really anything that would tell them "Hey, just FYI, there's a giant robot gun inside the walls here, come take a look!"

They'd have had to have done considerably greater mapping of the interior otherwise.

*The Smmithsonian has open field with old planes and mountains in the back

That is a geographical error, not a plot hole. A plot hole actually needs to affect the plot. Its still stupid, (and there is an even bigger one in the form of Egypt and its position to Jordan) but still not a plot hole.

*There was a giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles in the first movie, witnessed by thousands of people, were told worldwide by Keller that they were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to their own" but somehow in the sequel the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor

The scene with Keller was only made for the trailer... its not part of the actual film.
This year's "Predators" for example, had a scene in which Adrien Brody's character in covered in dozens of Predator target-sights, which never happens in the film (well, it does, but there's only one of them).

So, basically, while it still seems ridiculous the American government was able to cover the event up, the public still has no idea that the battle involved alien beings until The Fallen's broadcast.

Otherwise, there are some real good ones here, especially on why the Primes didn't destroy the Harvestor before/instead of sacrificing themselves.

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[–] JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies 13 years ago

The post you're responding to was deleted, but I just want to point out that (despite the fact that IMDb promotes stupidity about this in the "goofs" section) plots holes have to be internal to the story--that is, something is NOT a plot hole because of its relation to what you believe to be true of the actual world.

So, for example, the fields and mountains behind the Smithsonian are not a plot hole--and they're not a "geography goof" either. Films take place in FICTIONAL worlds. In this fictional world, that's what it's like behind the Smithsonian. A plot hole (or geography goof) would occur if in scene A, that's what it's like behind the Smithsonian (fields and mountains), and plot elements hinge on this, and in scene B, we see behind the Smithsonian being just like it is in the actual world, AND plot elements hinge on that too, plus the film makes it clear that it's the SAME Smithsonian we'd just seen, or at least gives us no reason to believe that it isn't same Smithsonian, but this is never explained in the film.

So the comments about archaeologists examining the pyramids, etc. are also NOT plot holes--the existence of archaeologists isn't even mentioned in the film (and even if they were, we can only go by what the film tells us about its fictional world's archaeologists if there are discrepancies between the film and the actual world), archaeologists have nothing to do with the plot or content in general of the film, etc.

As I said, IMDb helps promote this stupidity because it allows listing things as plot holes, goofs, etc. when they simply do not match what people believe to be true of the actual world. But that's a gross misconception/misunderstanding of what fiction is, how fiction works, etc.

http://www.rateyourmusic.com/~JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies

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[–] Deadpool-1992 13 years ago

Yeah apparently I'm that poster that starfox responded to.

have to be internal to the story

What about the Fallen, the Primes, half the story didn't make any sense in this movie. If you continue reading the responses on this topic, you'll see the plot holes that I mentioned, that someone quoted.

So the comments about archaeologists examining the pyramids, etc. are also NOT plot holes--the existence of archaeologists isn't even mentioned in the film (and even if they were, we can only go by what the film tells us about its fictional world's archaeologists if there are discrepancies between the film and the actual world), archaeologists have nothing to do with the plot or content in general of the film, etc.

That's it, because archaeologists are not mentioned in the movie, you believe they don't exist?

Why not, everything else that exist in the real world is featured in the movie so why not Archaeologists?

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[–] rds24 12 years ago

Here are a few plot holes I noticed right off the bat:

1. The movie says that the Primes vowed to never destroy a star that supports life, yet at the beginning they show the Primes building the solar harvester on Earth. How could they have been oblivious to the fact that Earth had life on it?

2. They say that only a Prime can kill another Prime. So when the Fallen battled the Primes, why didn't they just kill him? They outnumbered him six to one. I don't see any compelling reason for them to just give up and commit mass suicide to hide the Matrix beneath their bodies when all the Fallen had to do was scour the planet to find it. It's not like they were even that far away from the Harvester. Which brings me to my next point...

3. ...why didn't the Fallen stay behind on Earth to look for it? Why did he leave and then try to find it 17,000 years later?

4. Why did the Primes even need to harvest Energon from suns? The Allspark was an Energon source, and it hadn't been launched into space when the Primes were alive.

5. If the Matrix has to be earned and crumbles to dust in the hands of those unworthy, then how could the Fallen steal it in the first place?

6. If Jetfire is falling apart from lack of Energon, why aren't any of the other Transformers?

7. Starscream says that without Energon the hatchlings would keep dying. Why did they create the hatchlings if they had no means to sustain them?

8. If the Primes were the earliest ancestors of the Transformers, then wouldn't all Transformers be descended from Primes, not just Optimus and Sentinel?

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[–] turock 14 years ago

There are a lot of plot holes if you noticed when watching the film, I'll give you some of the Plot Holes that I know of

*The Fallen sitting on his ass for thousand of years instead of going back to Earth before Prime and Megatron even came to Earth, what prevented him, was he too lazy

I thought the Fallen feared the Primes in general as in ANY Prime? Optimus was still walking around.

*Why didn't The Primes destroy the Harvester, that would've been better than killing themselves to hide the key, destroy the door and key would be useless

I agree about the hervester but if its designed to destroy suns for energon, the energy source needed to sustain their race, wouldnt the Autobots want to keep it intact to revive the other Autobots?

*Why did the Ancient Egyptians built over the Harvester and not bother mentioning this to anyone and how the heck didn't the Archaeologist know it was there, they take samples of things which could've exposed the Harvester

Maybe for the same reason no one knows why Stone Henge was there, theres a lot of speculation but no hard facts. As for archiologosts not knowing it was there I recall seeing a documentary on the Pyramids and one of them has an inaccessable chamber, as far as i know no one has been inside. As for heiroglyphics which they now understand fairly well, theres also a lot that are too ruined to read.

*Alice's mission was to find Sam, but how did she predict ahead of time what college he would be at and how did the college accept her in, she was a made up robot not a real human, she would need ID, good grades, and parents/guardians

Alice was a Decpticon Pretender, their like the C.I.A. they can get in anywhere, remember in the first movie when the tiny robot hacked into Airforce One? Whos to say they couldnt do that again? They could hack the college computers, fake some records. Just because Alice was the only one shown does not mean she was the only one. There could have been a whole legion of Pretenders.

*Sam and Co wanted to find a Decepticon to read for them, when they find one, they're like "Sh!t, it's a Decepticon",, They wanted to find a Decepticon but they are surprised that it was a Decepticon and Wheelie

Thats just a bad judgement call, and the Autobots were kind of on lock down at the time. They couldnt just call them up and say "hay whats this say?" Also it blends right in with the cartoon, the good guys working on an honor system decide to trust the little punk. And it backfires.

*The Smmithsonian has open field with old planes and mountains in the back

Thats called a goof not a plothole.

*The Navy were guarding Megatrons body but they happen to let a freighter full of Construction Vehicles go by

Just because they are the Navyu does not mean they have the same equipment used by the special forces. Whos to say they even know what they are guarding?

*Apparently a Navy Captain listens to a lunatic over the Walkie-Talkie claiming a former agent of a government branch that never existed

Not a plot hole, a stretch of imagination sure. If they had a rail gun something they arent even adimtting to have built, chances are teh guy on the other end of the phone knows a lot more then you do about whats going on. I thought that was a bit odd myself, but just like in the cartoon this kind of thing happened all the time.

*Simple way to get past the Jordanian Border Petrol, tell them you're an American from New York and they'll kiss your ass and let you through without checking your ID or passport to back up your statement

Cheech and Chong were mistaken for Dolly Pardon and Burt Reynolds in Next Movie i think it was. Them getting through is not a plot hole again its a stretch of imagination. A plot hole would be saying the border patrol is inpenetrable, these guys wont let a fart slip by them, then getting through by saying were from NY.

There are other plot holes that I don't know of but someone else will tell you but now

====*THE BIGGEST PLOT HOLE*===

*There was a giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles in the first movie, witnessed by thousands of people, were told worldwide by Keller that they were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to their own" but somehow in the sequel the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor

During the Bush administration they had "Training Exercizes" where they enacted things like a subway gassing or a suicide bomber. Even with the Pres on television they could say it was all part of the drill. Americans are stupid, just look at who they vote for.

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[–] Sebastian_B 14 years ago

*There was a giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles in the first movie, witnessed by thousands of people, were told worldwide by Keller that they were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to their own" but somehow in the sequel the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor

During the Bush administration they had "Training Exercizes" where they enacted things like a subway gassing or a suicide bomber. Even with the Pres on television they could say it was all part of the drill.

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[–] Drappelfed2000 14 years ago

*The Fallen sitting on his ass for thousand of years instead of going back to Earth before Prime and Megatron even came to Earth, what prevented him, was he too lazy

I thought the Fallen feared the Primes in general as in ANY Prime? Optimus was still walking around.

Prime was on Earth for only 2 years. The Fallen could have searched any time before that.

*Why didn't The Primes destroy the Harvester, that would've been better than killing themselves to hide the key, destroy the door and key would be useless

I agree about the hervester but if its designed to destroy suns for energon, the energy source needed to sustain their race, wouldnt the Autobots want to keep it intact to revive the other Autobots?

Not at the cost of destroying an inhabitable world.

*Alice's mission was to find Sam, but how did she predict ahead of time what college he would be at and how did the college accept her in, she was a made up robot not a real human, she would need ID, good grades, and parents/guardians

Alice was a Decpticon Pretender, their like the C.I.A. they can get in anywhere, remember in the first movie when the tiny robot hacked into Airforce One? Whos to say they couldnt do that again? They could hack the college computers, fake some records. Just because Alice was the only one shown does not mean she was the only one. There could have been a whole legion of Pretenders.

I'll accept that Alice killed a student and took over her identity. What I won't accept is why can robots suddenly transform into flesh with no explanation whatsoever.

*Sam and Co wanted to find a Decepticon to read for them, when they find one, they're like "Sh!t, it's a Decepticon",, They wanted to find a Decepticon but they are surprised that it was a Decepticon and Wheelie

Thats just a bad judgement call, and the Autobots were kind of on lock down at the time. They couldnt just call them up and say "hay whats this say?" Also it blends right in with the cartoon, the good guys working on an honor system decide to trust the little punk. And it backfires.

I believe he was talking about Jetfire. They needed a Decepticon, searched for a Decepticon, located a Decepticon, then were completely shocked to find that they found...wait for it...a Decepticon!

*The Navy were guarding Megatrons body but they happen to let a freighter full of Construction Vehicles go by

Just because they are the Navyu does not mean they have the same equipment used by the special forces. Whos to say they even know what they are guarding?

Regardless, how many Naval missions in the middle of the ocean require a dump truck and a cement mixer? Like I said in another thread, they can scan new forms at will. Why wouldn't they at least scan naval vehicles/equipment?

*Simple way to get past the Jordanian Border Petrol, tell them you're an American from New York and they'll kiss your ass and let you through without checking your ID or passport to back up your statement

Cheech and Chong were mistaken for Dolly Pardon and Burt Reynolds in Next Movie i think it was. Them getting through is not a plot hole again its a stretch of imagination. A plot hole would be saying the border patrol is inpenetrable, these guys wont let a fart slip by them, then getting through by saying were from NY.

I'm sorry, but WHAT?!? You're comparing the events of this film to a Cheech and Chong movie? What about when Pee Wee Herman got past the police roadblock dressed as a girl in Pee Wee's Big Adventure?

We expect those type of things in silly comedies. That's part of the slap-stick humor. In rotf, getting through border patrol by telling a midget you're from NY and not showing any ID is not only a plot hole, it's absolutely ridiculous.

*There was a giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles in the first movie, witnessed by thousands of people, were told worldwide by Keller that they were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to their own" but somehow in the sequel the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor

During the Bush administration they had "Training Exercizes" where they enacted things like a subway gassing or a suicide bomber. Even with the Pres on television they could say it was all part of the drill. Americans are stupid, just look at who they vote for.

40 foot tall robots blowing up a populated city was a drill? People aren't that stupid - especially the people who were injured/killed in that battle, along with their families. I'm sure the guy who got attacked by his XBox remembers it pretty well, along with the woman who's steering wheel became a face hugger. No one had a camera phone? There were no tourists with camcorders? Unless Superman flew in and gave everyone a memory-erasing kiss (ala Superman II), I'd say that's a pretty friggin' big plot hole there.

www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/797-T ransformers-Revenge

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[–] turock 14 years ago

"Prime was on Earth for only 2 years. The Fallen could have searched any time before that."

As was mentinoed in another thread it appears as though the Fallen was on some sort of life support system, and if i recall correctly i thought that was addressed in the comics released between filnms 1 and 2. I didnt read it but it addresses a lot of information not covered in the movie as im to understand it.

"Not at the cost of destroying an inhabitable world."

As for the Hervester, theres nothing that said it couldnt be transported off planet and to another solar system. The fact that they might want to save it to try and salvage it is a very real posibility.

"I'll accept that Alice killed a student and took over her identity. What I won't accept is why can robots suddenly transform into flesh with no explanation whatsoever."

Alice is I believe also explained in the comic between films, as well as the Pretenders being a fairly big part of the comic franchise, I dont know myself because i dont read them. This is not a plot hole this is information not covered but its not a plot hole.

"I believe he was talking about Jetfire. They needed a Decepticon, searched for a Decepticon, located a Decepticon, then were completely shocked to find that they found...wait for it...a Decepticon!"

Wheelie said only an old transformer could read ancient kryptonian. He had one in mind who was old enough to remember, but maybe he knew why Megatron himself never reactivated Jetfire. Though I do feel that Jetfire was a bit of a waste.

"Regardless, how many Naval missions in the middle of the ocean require a dump truck and a cement mixer? Like I said in another thread, they can scan new forms at will. Why wouldn't they at least scan naval vehicles/equipment?"

Whos to say the construction equipment wasnt required for building of barracs when they got into port. As i recall it though the construction equipment was on a giant transport ship not nessicarily a war vessel, the fact that it could be taking reliable equipment to a forign country is not impossible.

"I'm sorry, but WHAT?!? You're comparing the events of this film to a Cheech and Chong movie? What about when Pee Wee Herman got past the police roadblock dressed as a girl in Pee Wee's Big Adventure?

We expect those type of things in silly comedies. That's part of the slap-stick humor. In rotf, getting through border patrol by telling a midget you're from NY and not showing any ID is not only a plot hole, it's absolutely ridiculous."

You keep thinking of this movie as if its supposed to be accurate to the letter, but its based off a cartoon that was full of stupid humor and silly coincidences. The Decpticons would get a Destructicon and the Autobots would get a Constructicon in the same episode to battle said Destructicon. This is nothing new it was just made shorter to move the story along.

"40 foot tall robots blowing up a populated city was a drill? People aren't that stupid - especially the people who were injured/killed in that battle, along with their families. I'm sure the guy who got attacked by his XBox remembers it pretty well, along with the woman who's steering wheel became a face hugger. No one had a camera phone? There were no tourists with camcorders? Unless Superman flew in and gave everyone a memory-erasing kiss (ala Superman II), I'd say that's a pretty friggin' big plot hole there."

Sams family was paid to STFU, anyone else could be paid to stfu as well, those who didnt get up close and personal could be foold into thinking it was just some sort of drill. The damage could have been blamed on metorites (the transformers) landing.
Most of the footage taken from the first movie was low quality handicams, the footage might almost have looked as good as Cloverfield if not for the fact that there were no 1080P hd camcorders that small at that time. None of the footage is tripod ready hd cameras.
Its not hard to gloss it over as some kids making videos using photoshop, and video editing software. They can drum up some fake charges to put someone leaking government secrets just to get him in jail, they can sure as hell discredit any kid with a camera.

Was it dumb to gloss over the sec def's assertions of the last film? Yes but its not a plot hole.

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[–] Drappelfed2000 14 years ago

First off, I hate it when people use the excuse "It was in the comic/novel". Spin-off comics are for stories that happen before or in between the films. They shouldn't be needed to explain things the films didn't. Believe it or not, the majority of the people who watch these films aren't going to read the comic. As I've said many times before - no one should have to do research to understand a film. Simply put, if it didn't happen in the film, it didn't happen.

Most of your other points, well, you're really stretching there.

As for the Hervester, theres nothing that said it couldnt be transported off planet and to another solar system. The fact that they might want to save it to try and salvage it is a very real posibility.

Why would you think they would transport the harvester? Actually, why did the Primes build it on an inhabited world in the first place?

Wheelie said only an old transformer could read ancient kryptonian.

Like General Zodbot?

Whos to say the construction equipment wasnt required for building of barracs when they got into port. As i recall it though the construction equipment was on a giant transport ship not nessicarily a war vessel, the fact that it could be taking reliable equipment to a forign country is not impossible.

No offense, but you're kidding, right? Those ships were guarding the abyss where Megatron was. There was no need for construction vehicles. I'm trying to figure out how they got on board in the first place. And why did no one notice Ravage land on the ship? Did they forget to install radar? Pretty crappy security they have there - especially considering what their guarding.

You keep thinking of this movie as if its supposed to be accurate to the letter, but its based off a cartoon that was full of stupid humor and silly coincidences. The Decpticons would get a Destructicon and the Autobots would get a Constructicon in the same episode to battle said Destructicon. This is nothing new it was just made shorter to move the story along.

Again, as I've said many times in the past: If you think the source material is only the 80's cartoon, then you don't know the source material. Besides, are you saying that a $200 million major motion picture doesn't need to be better than an 80's after school cartoon made on a shoe-string budget? I think it should. It wasn't.

And what's a "Destructicon"?!?

Sams family was paid to STFU, anyone else could be paid to stfu as well, those who didnt get up close and personal could be foold into thinking it was just some sort of drill. The damage could have been blamed on metorites (the transformers) landing.
Most of the footage taken from the first movie was low quality handicams, the footage might almost have looked as good as Cloverfield if not for the fact that there were no 1080P hd camcorders that small at that time. None of the footage is tripod ready hd cameras.
Its not hard to gloss it over as some kids making videos using photoshop, and video editing software. They can drum up some fake charges to put someone leaking government secrets just to get him in jail, they can sure as hell discredit any kid with a camera.

Where does it say that the government paid off Sam's family and everyone in the city? Sorry, there is no excuse you or anyone can make to explain this. The writers couldn't. Bay can't. Just admit that this is a huge gaping plot hole.

I'm not saying you shouldn't like this film. Just accept that it is EXTREMELY flawed.

www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/797-T ransformers-Revenge

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