MovieChat Forums > Flash of Genius (2008) Discussion > Was This Idea Worthy of a Patent?

Was This Idea Worthy of a Patent?


Just to be clear Mr. Kearns did not patent the intermittent wiper but rather an electronic mechanism to create this function. It's described as a capacitor, variable resistor and transistor. Someone points out that he didn't invent any of these things but the point is made (in a clever way I should mention) that it was the arrangement of these components that was the original idea.

Bzzzt...hold on here.

A resistor and capacitor being used to create a delay? That's absolutely NOT original. It even has a name: RC network. RC circuits are used to create tiny delays in oscillators and longer intervals in other sorts of time delays. In fact it's pretty much THE way you do a delay in the analog (non digital) world. Not original in the least.

He may have been the first to apply it to a windshield wiper. But does taking an obvious and already existing approach to a problem qualify for a patent? Don't say yes just because it was granted; lots of questionable patents get through.

Any patent attorneys out there?

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You are right. RC circuits are way common and most every small device that had a blinker (before digital) used them. Probably since about WWII or so.

I'll have to see the film, but basically ideas tend to be a dime a dozen and if you proposed a new idea on a car and it became a standard, it would be hard to get money for it. If a Ford engineer came up with one, he'd probably get a small award, maybe a cash bonus - but not millions.

If you were super careful, patented the idea first with good attorneys (bad attorneys can often get patents that don't hold up, you are right again) and then SOLD the idea, you might earn some moolah. Probably not millions. It would take something big, like a battery twice as good as what we have now - that could be worked up for millions. I don't think the idea itself was worth a patent. Nowadays it would be a tough sell, anyway.

It's quite a thin premise to base a David-vs.-Goliath story on. And the moment you get an offer, you TAKE it! At least after a little negotiation. Just like Mitch McDeere narrated in The Firm - It's all about getting that settlement, baby! Take the cash.

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He may have been the first to apply it to a windshield wiper. But does taking an obvious and already existing approach to a problem qualify for a patent?


It may not be completely ORIGINAL, but the process led to a product that is newer (improved upon the prior art) and has utility. I think the idea was definitely worth a patent.



Carpe Diem!

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A Ford engineer wouldn't get millions... because he was being paid to make it.

I think that you would feel much different if this was something that you created, had stolen from you, slandered you and then they still didn't want to admit was yours even though they were willing to pay you millions.

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My understanding is that it was a process exclusively designed for vehicles. So in that sense it is 100% patentable regardless of its use in many other electronics. I had the same question when I first heard the story, too.

Also, he was awarded millions because of the lost revenue that he would have gotten from every car produced since his patent. At least, that's the way I heard the story. I still haven't read the book or seen the flick.

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I agree with eugene. Dont get boggled by the massive sum he got in the end. If that same verdict had come out much earlier, he would have got only few thousands I guess. The point of the compensation granted is to slam the guilty in such a way that none dare to repeat it. In this case, a worthy inventor spent precious years of his life fighting for his honour, when instead his further work may have benefited the society.
Also, those who talk abt patency in this idea; I dont think patency of the idea was the base of legal case here. It was infact the original idea of using it in a windshield wiper, AND the the premise that the guilty used that idea from him for its own monetary gain. Ideally, the idea proposer should have got a royalty for every implementation of that idea. However, plaintiff preferred to have it manufactured by his own new corporation (this may be challengeable, but I guess all Bob wanted, was to make sure his family line benefited from it, not just his generation, and perhaps use the profit for scientific research).
If the accused was not willing to accept that offer, then they should not have used it either. If they did want to use it, then they should have given the plaintiff due credit for it, thus slapping Bob's offer in a legal way (and surely make him agree on a royalty amount later). Instead, they totally threw him out of the picture, and claimed the idea came originally from within the organisation. The guilty did that purely to maximise their profits and maintain a monopoly in the market.

That is not acceptable in a judicial based society and rightfully explains the final verdict of the jury.
I wish the jury is also allowed to explain their verdict, rather than saying a yes/no at the end. Currently the legal system does not follow that, maybe to relieve the jury from stress and think solely for justice.

***DISCLAIMER*** The statements made here are based on the facts enacted/presented in this movie, and does not necessarily indicate the same inclination, for the actual events that occurred.

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"The point of the compensation granted is to slam the guilty in such a way that none dare to repeat it. In this case, a worthy inventor spent precious years of his life fighting for his honour, when instead his further work may have benefited the society. "

Well said.

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Let's try something different here....

Say I do have an idea on improving this Dr. Kearns wiper thing further (as I really do and would work even better). Is it patentable?

I know, you'd tell me to tell you the idea isn't it? LOL

Honestly the only people I would give my idea is his children, if anyone knows them, let me know....

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There were probably many people who saw the problems caused by fixed timing windshield wipers. Kearns is almost certainly not the first to say "gee wouldn't it be neat if the wipers could wait just a bit between wipes". If the use of resistors and capacitors to create that delay was so obvious, why didn't "the Big Three" engineers think of it? Ford engineers were experimenting with a bimetallic timer, which apparently didn't work. Eventually, they likely would have used a resistor/capacitor system, but Kearns thought of it first. He not only thought of it, but built it, tested it, and refined it until it worked. So, yeah, he deserved credit for it and to profit from it.

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When watching this, I immediately thought that this would be a very simple problem for a junior college electronics student -- which I was in 2000. We had numerous homework assignments to create projects just like this. Even in the 1960s, this does not seem to be that earth shaking of an invention.

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When watching this, I immediately thought that this would be a very simple problem for a junior college electronics student -- which I was in 2000...Even in the 1960s, this does not seem to be that earth shaking of an invention.

Looking back as a student in 2000, it's easy to say something like that. For automotive engineers in the 1960s, it obviously wasn't that simple. The major auto companies were all working towards a solution, for years, apparently, but to no avail. But the question they were trying to answer wasn't posed externally. From Kearns "Flash of Genius" to creation didn't seem to take very long. So maybe students or other engineers could have answered this question quite easily, had it been asked.

You could probably make a good case for open source here...

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According to the story (true or not) Ford was trying to come up with an intermittent and FAILED until Doc Kearns came along. Patent? Yes!

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Did anyone miss that this story is true?

Seriously it actually happened...a thin basis for a story? Call it reality!

And of course it must have been something of a unique spin on things if every Car company in America was bent over backwards trying to invent it and kept failing...I'm no patent lawyer...or engineer...but he obviously invented something new...and something we ALL use today and take for granted...so he obviously deserved the credit and the money for his efforts.

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"But does taking an obvious and already existing approach to a problem qualify for a patent?"

Under current Supreme Court doctrine (see KSR v. Teleflex, decided April 30, 2007), this would not be patentable, as it combines familiar elements (a resistor and a capacitor) according to known methods (the RC network) to yield a predictable result (creating a delay).

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I bet that Ford is kicking themselves for not having you available for their defense team.

While people may wish say it is not worthy of a patent, the government decided that it was and the people of the state of Michigan decided that the Government was correct in issuing the patent and that Ford was guilty of stealing it...oh, wait a minute, this happened in in 1967, not 2007. Why apply todays laws to something that happened forty years ago?

Was it worthy of a patent? At the time it was invented, state of the art was a vacuum system. Dr. Kearns' all electric system probably saved many lives due to the fact that the wiper continued to work while the car accelerated. His design re-defined the current state of art.

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Regarding whether this idea was worthy of patent, I would say yes. It not only stood up to the initial scrutiny of the patent office, but over the years, companies did not make a slight change to this fellows idea to get around his patent. It must have been a well written patent.

In order to qualify for a patent, your invention has to satisfy three criteria:

1. It has to the first of its kind

2. It has to work (no perpetual motion machines etc)

3. It has to be deemed not obvious to people of average skill in the field.

The 3rd aspect is the most ambiguous and where many patent applications fail during the examination phase. Most inventions can seem obvious in hindsight, and a patent application that is basically just the combining of commonly known/used items is typically not granted a patent. For example trying to patent Part C, which is just the combination of two well known components (Part A and Part B), is typically not granted. Patent law has an element of subjectivity to it though, and not all patents are created equal with regard to how strong (infringement proof) they are. A patent is seldom granted on its first review, and it can take much amending back and forth between patent examiner and patent lawyer.

If you believe your invention has commercial value, it would be worthwhile hiring a good patent lawyer, which can make a HUGE difference in overcoming the various obstacles along the way. A good patent lawyer is also more likely to write a well worded "Claim" which is the boundary around your invention. Too broad a claim will not properly define the invention, ie make it too vague, but too narrow a "Claim" will make it easier for someone else to make a minor change and skirt around your patent.

Anyone interested in patenting an invention should read up on basic patent law (even if a lawyer will write the actual patent application). Learning a little about patent law is quite the eye opener, especially something called "The Pith and The Pendulum" which is basically how the courts flip flop between being hard on people who infringe upon a patent, followed by a few years of being easy on possible patent infringers.

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(I saw this movie in March 2009 on a plane, which I though was a great "midday movie")

A RC delay circuit by itself couldn't have done what was required. From my memory of the movie, Ford didn't trust electronic timers and it was Kearns that got to patenting that specific idea first - also to demonstrate that "electronics" were reliable enough for this kind of work.

In the 1960s you couldn't just whip out a 555 could you? :)

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No, the 555 IC timer was still a decade or so away in the early '60s. And while the RC delay part of the circuit was simple even then, power transistors beefy enough to drive a wiper motor reliably (and withstand the electrical noise and elevated temperatures typical of automotive use) were bleeding edge stuff at the time. Most likely a germanium PNP device in a big metal TO-3 can.

Interestingly, with all the advances in power semiconductors in the last 40-odd years, the intermittent wiper controls in my last couple vehicles have used electromechanical relays to turn the motor on and off. You can hear the "click" from under the dash when the wiper starts and stops in intermittent mode.

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