Not factual!!! Badly made. - Cadillac Records (2008) Discussion

[–] bpmct 16 years ago

I agree, lets not talk about the fact that if you actually listen old blues the songs rip off entire verses from one another. But thats ok because their black. To that way of thinking white people aren't allowed to be inspired by black music. Hell, in the case of Elvis he mixed it with country & western (just listen to his Sun stuff). If there gonna call that theft then they have to call anyone who is inspired by someone else a thief. Its ignorant!

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[–] The_infamous_elledarko 16 years ago

I agree that the movie was incredibly bad when it comes to historical accuracy. I'm curious as to why they were so liberal with the truth, because the story of Chess records is very interesting. I find it disrespectful in a way to take out whole characters as if they never existed.

While I am not entirely convinced that it was theft, I do appreciate the films attempt to show that white artists took from black artists and sold it as original. Years later, there is this misconception that what Elvis and others did was new and innovative when in reality it wasn't! Musicians take from others this is true. But there is the way that the Rolling Stones took from these black musicians acknowledging where it came from; and then theres the way the other white artists and their labels did it..acting like it was brand new. Attempting to not give royalties until they were sued.

I also think it hurt these black artists of the time even more because they made music equally as well as the white artists; but did not see the same amount of acclaim and MONEY because they were black. On top of that many of them were using the songs and dances black artists created.

A plague on all your houses!!!!

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[–] bpmct 16 years ago

The whole dance thing is a misconception. The dance Elvis did started at his first show, at the Overton park shell, he was really nervous and started shaking his legs and the crowd went crazy. He rushed off stage and said "they hated me", the promoter said "No they like the way you shake your legs, go out and do it again." Once Elvis saw the effect for himself he started doing more and more just to see what they would do, even going so far as burping into the microphone, and taking his belt off. Elvis also often gave credit to blues musicians, saying how he liked "that real low down blues", and calling Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup-"the best musician who ever lived". I guess the whole thing is, is people shouldn't attack the artists 'cause EVERY musician was screwed over in the 1950's. Quick who actually had the big hit with "Blue Suede Shoes" answer Carl Perkins, not Elvis, who got a tripple crown from Billboard topping all three charts!! Carl, as you may or may not know, was white, doesn't get all the credit for this song he wrote Elvis does. Blame the record label guys, not the artists!

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[–] labrynth 16 years ago

First of all, if it wasn't for black musicians, there'd be no Rock n' Roll, let alone Elvis Presley as we know him. Secondly, much of the dance movements from Elvis Presley was copied from black performers. Just check out old black classic movies from the 30's and 40's.

As a matter of fact, go check out the movie "HALLELUJAH" which was made in 1929. In this film, Nina Mae McKinney, a black woman, is performing the exact same dance movement that elvis would later adopt.

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[–] simba122504 15 years ago

I'm not a racist, but I agree with labrynth!

It's a fact.

I'm glad Obama won, but I will not jump on the Pro-Choice bandwagon

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[–] hodie 15 years ago

I wasn't around in the 30s and 40s, but I do remember when the British Invasion occurred.
The Beatles *idolized* blues and early blues-rock artists, black or white, and they loved not only Muddy Waters but Elvis Presley and Chuck Berry. They said so frequently in interviews. In fact the Beatles covered some Chuck Berry songs.

No one can really say "if not for -----, there would be no rock music", because there's no way anyone can prove that.

All I know is that I didn't invent it, and neither did you.

I see no point in anyone bragging on anything they didn't personally accomplish.

Honour thy parents. They were hip to the groove too once you know.

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[–] AlexanderBatey 11 years ago

The Beatles were more into 50's rock and roll,Motown and soul. The Stones were into blues.

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[–] jermaine-miles 15 years ago

i think this argument usually is based on the fact that black musicians of that time never got credit until it was way too late, and the artist that did adapt their styles never gave them credit. white artists didn't always blatantly steal black songs (if it seemed that way it was because it was forced on them by their labels in most cases) but for them to become famous and rich from that style of music, and never acknowledge who/what truly inspired them or came first is still a slap in the face.

white people didn't "steal" rock n roll, but to be called pioneers in a genre and not give credit to the people that truly came before them is underhanded. it's what a lot of black artist (and the general black public) have come to expect in a lot of cases similar to this. Steal just may not always be the right word, but when you you take credit for something that you didn't create.... what other word are people supposed to use?

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[–] kingdio 16 years ago

Oops..Your racism is showing.

How do you miss the *beep* point so badly? Take off the *beep* blinders, you idiot.

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[–] bpmct 16 years ago

Hmmm, I read through my comment and saw nothing racist in the FACTS!!!! Elvis did not STEAL anything. Its ok for anyone to enjoy black music, you don't have to be black moron, he enjoyed it so much he wanted to play it. There is nothing wrong with playing the music you love. You are the one who missed the point. as is anyone who says Elvis stole from the black man, it is racist to say that, and therefore completely ignorant. But fine if you want to be an idiot then here you go.. Charley Pride, and the singer from Hootie & The Blowfish Darius Rucker, there both just black guys who are stealing from whites because they play country music. That is essentially your narrow way of thinking.

Ps take of your blinders...and shove 'em up your racist ass!!

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[–] laissebeton 16 years ago

Well said "bpmct"...Stealing is recording someone's else song without giving them credit/royalities (eg: Led Zeppelin with Willie Dixon), but not playing the same style of music. I also fail to see how original Rock'n Roll was nothing but Blues when it took just as much from Folk and Country music. Also, last time I checked Les Paul, Leo Fender and Adolph Rickenbacker weren't African-Americans and it certainly was their electric guitars that made the sound of Rock possible in the first place.

Lastly, if it's stealing to play someone else's music, then the entire non-white world is also stealing by using modern industry, technology, science, medecine, transportation, energy and on and on, right ? Of course not and that goes to show what a logical fallacy that "stealing" claim truly is.

That movie was indeed badly made and was completely inaccurate about the historical facts and significance of Chess records. A total waste of what should have been a fascinating story in and of itself.

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[–] labrynth 16 years ago

It was black blues musicians, of the postwar blues period, and on, who laid the foundation for Rock guitar, not folk and country musicians. These black blues musicians were doing things with their guitars, that folk and country blues musicians at the time were hardly doing, unless they were influenced by black musicians.

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[–] bpmct 16 years ago

God you are an idiot. Rock music wasn't invented it was born, it's parents were equal parts black and white. it was every bit Robert johnson as it was Hank Williams. AND folk music has been around far longer then the blues, folk is passed from generation to generation, guys like AP. Carter of the Carter Family, and Alan Lomax, (yes I know Alan is shown recording Muddy in the film, and he did, but he also collected mountain music) collected these songs and recorded them. Just because you are biased to country music doesn't mean it didn't have a major impact on american music. Country and blues mixed lead to rockabilly which lead to rock, thats how it is sorry to burst your bubble, but give credit where credit is due!!

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[–] PaulG28 14 years ago

lol at this comment by bpmct

"it's parents were equal parts black and white"

That would be a no..

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

Yeah Paul, actually listen to early Rock & Roll before you spew your racist double standard BS. Country music played an equal part to the creation of Rock & Roll. If you don't believe me you only really have to look at what some call the "first rock & roll song" Rocket 88. Ike Turner wrote the song on the way to the recording session. The song features a country melody with a "jump-blues" piano riff. Ike Turner spent his formative years taking whatever musical job he could so he could play all styles jazz, country, blues, when his band (Jackie Brenston & The Delta Cats) was called to record this songs he put all these elements together. Country is just as essential to the creation of rock as blues is. and frankly all Rock is is sped up folk music, its American music, yet you seem to think that the music has a color. Our music is mixed, these are facts! Blues is blues, R&B is R&B, Country is Country, and Gospel is Gospel when it all came together in it earlist form it was called Rockabilly a mixture of Hillbilly and R&B/blues. Some Rockabilly players are bluesier, some more country, and some even play a jazzy style but it all came together and laid the foundation for Rock & Roll. One more thing, Chuck Berry himself has said that some of his main influences were country players, and Maybeline started life as a rewrite of a Roy Acuff (a country singer) song called Ida Red!Why do I try, you obviously don't know anything about music history, and just feel like bringing race into it.

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[–] PaulG28 14 years ago

lol..From my very small comment where did you get any racism??..I am just telling the truth your comment was wrong.

I will post from a disscusion on a message board about this subject.

"Want to know exactly makes up Rock music?You’ll pften hear that Rock music is a mix of Blues and Country but this is actually false.There was actually a Country influnced Rock but it wasn’t the original.The original Rock when it first burted on the air waves of white america was Rhythm and Blues.Rock and Roll was the name it was given by a Dj of the name of Alan Freed.
Alan Freed is often credited with coining the term “rock and roll” to describe the rhythm-and-blues records he played, however that expression had been around for years among the black musicians of the day. The phrase “rockin' and rollin'" referred to having sex, as in " we were rockin' and rollin' ". Freed, however, attached the term to the music he played on his radio program and soon, his listeners were using the phrase too." info from classicbands

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[–] PaulG28 14 years ago

"Rock and Roll has two lineages which are Rhythm and Blues/Jump Blues and Delta and Chicago (electric) blues.Early Rock and R&&B are 100% indentical.Now you might be wondering where and when did the Country influence come in.The answer is that this came much later and was no part of early Rock.This type of Rock came to be known as Rockabilly.Rocabilly is a combination of Black Rock n Roll (aka Rythm and Blues) + White Hillbilly/Country music.A nice video detailing the origin of Rocabilly music"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BzCLY_LLo&feature=player_embedded
movidcodec-

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

Your black R &B was called R&B, it didn't start being known as rock until the form was striped down and country elements were added to it. Ike Turner added these elements into Rocket 88, as the melody is often used in western swing. Rockabilly is a stripped down R&B/country mix. I called you a racist because you refuse to allow the truth, it is documented fact that country music had a major influence on rock. It wasn't all black, that would have been blues & R&B, Chuck Berry himself took elements of country into his style and has said so himself. "Maybeline" was a variation on Ida Red an old Roy Acuff song. The beat in Maybelline is a country beat, PERIOD. The boom chick boom chick beat comes from country music. Blues has more of a twelve bar beat, dum da dum dum, as does R&B which has added horns making it "big band blues". You are close minded to the contributions of country musicians and want to say it was all black, thats just plain stupid. It may interest you to know that it has been documented fact that when Roert Johnson played live he often included Bing Crosby songs in his set list, so it goes beyond even blues and country. Its not black music, it's not white music, Rock & roll is a melting pot, Rock & roll is american music. You get your "research" by typing everything into google, I've actually studied both music theory, and music in general for a degree. I'm not saying it was all white, like you are trying to say its all black, IT'S EQUAL, I don't know why you seem to have a problem with that. Your probably the type that says "Elvis stole from the black man" too even though this is proven wrong by the fact that he was influenced, again, equally by both sides as were many white rock players, Buddy Holly for instance had a country background playing in a bluegrass band.

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

PS: this little blurb might interest you, it's from a book on the History of Rock & Roll entitled Rocks Movers & Shakers:

Country and Blues

Growing up, Chuck Berry was not only exposed to blues music, but also country music. The fusion of these two musics, in Berry's subconscious, was magical to say the least!

The country-influence in Chucks' songs can be heard in the beat, the vocals, and the guitar. The drums play a swing beat in songs like "Sweet Little Sixteen" and "Roll Over Beethoven". This was a beat that Chuck undoubtedly heard in the country-swing songs of artists such as Hank Williams or Bob Wills.

Hank William's "Honky-Tonk Blues" or "Hey Good Lookin'" are two great examples of the swing rhythm that Chuck loved. They also contain "wandering" guitar intros..the kind of intros that can be heard in "Johnny B. Goode" or "No Particular Place To Go".

The vocal style of Hank and other country singers found it's way into Chuck's singing. Chuck's pure, bright-tenor tone was in sharp contrast to the rough baritones of blues artists like Muddy Waters or Howlin' Wolf!

While this is from a book, it is backed up in Berry's own words in the documentry "Hail Hail Rock & Roll...hope that helps!

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[–] PaulG28 14 years ago

lol..Your just wrong...thats not racist you just have your facts wrong.To say its a equal black and white things is just not true.sorry if thats hard for you to accept

"The heart of rock and roll is the rhythm, which is basically a boogie woogie blues rhythm with an accentuated backbeat, almost always on snare drum. Rock and roll is typically played with two electric guitars (one lead, one rhythm), an electric bass guitar, and a drum kit. Keyboards are a common addition to the mix. In the rock and roll style of the early 1950s, the saxophone was often the lead instrument, replaced by guitar in the mid 1950s. In the earliest form of rock and roll, during the late 1940s, the piano was the lead instrument, and indeed, among the roots of rock and roll is the boogie woogie piano of the big band era that dominated American music in the 1940s"

Boogie Woogie influence on Rock

Little Richard’s words on it

Little Richard said:

“Everything I play is boogie woogie...rock and roll is just up-tempo boogie woogie!“

In a 1990 interview, Little Richard also offered this explanation for the birth of rock:

“I would say that boogie-woogie and rhythm & blues mixed is rock and roll.“

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[–] PaulG28 14 years ago

Jerry Lee Lewis about the music that came to be called Rock and Roll

“They called it blues. They called it Boogie Woogie. Then they changed the name of it to Rock and Roll.“

movicodec

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[–] PaulG28 14 years ago

"So now you might be wondering when the change up occured?Answer to that,it all started with the king Chuck Berry"Mcodec

1955

1. Chuck Berry cuts his first rock and roll records, the first ones to have the guitar as the main
instrument, and invents the descending pentatonic double-stops (the essence of rock guitar
history-of-rock.com

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

Elvis cut That's All Right Mama in July of '54, a mix of country "Travis picking", and blues bends over a strong beat from a bass and acoustic guitar. Your point being!?

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

Jerry Lee also had a huge Hank Williams influnce. In fact the only music he was able to listen growing up were Hank Williams, Gene Autry, and Al Jolson, he would sneak out of the house to listen to the blues at a place called "Hanney's Big House", one of the few things the movie got right, so again your wrong he gained equal exposure to country, and blues. God your thick!

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

You sum up all my facts, and everything I have given you with, "I'm sorry your wrong!?" Little Richard also said " I would never say that Elvis wasn't a main door to rock & roll, I would never say that. He made my big toe shoot up in my boot", this is taken from VH1's History Of Rock & Roll. Little Richard has also cited Ike Turner as an influence, Ike Turner has said that he had a strong country influence this is is in Martin Scorcese's Blues documentry. I'm sorry sir but you are wrong, and you have no clue on the history of Rock & Roll, so stop trying. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. And seeing as you get your info from the first link google gives you, you must be the blindest guy ever.

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[–] PaulG28 14 years ago

lol..the first link?did you bother reading my first post.I guess you did not anyway..your wrong.To say that rock was a equal thing black and white is wrong.why is that so hard for you to get??

Sure white people influenced rock but to say white and black people were equal in its making would be wrong.

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

I realize there was segregation back then. I don't mean that there was equality in the races, in a lot of ways we don't have that now. I mean the forms of music coming together were an equal mix. Blues is black music I will never say any different, it started as "field hollers" and almost a code language with the slaves to talk about their troubles. I realize this, blues is black music. Country is white music these forms of music stand on there own not as a color but forms of music. You have to see that by mixing these two, Rock & Roll was created. Early rock even had elements of pop. Rock sounds different then the blues, and it sounds different from country. It's not just sped up blues either, there are fast blues songs that don't sound like Rock & Roll. Thats like saying if I just sped up Polka music I'd have a new form of music. To create new music THINGS HAVE TO BE MIXED! Even within the last 12 years lets say:

Punk + Swing/dancehall = Ska
Rap + Rock = Rap Rock (and yes I know it's real origins are from the 80's with Run DMC & Aerosmith, but I was refering to the rap rock boom of the late 90's)

these were both marketable forms of music that were created from mixing styles, and THAT is what happened with Rock. Plain & simple. I don't see how you can't get this!

My whole point in this is no one group created it, it just came about as do all forms of music. Again the closest to a "creation" was 1953's Rocket 88, it combined boogie woogie with a country melody, and basic rock & roll structure. Ike Turner's band was different from Big Joe Turner, Or Wynonnie Harris-they were big bands-Ike had a small band. I say this is the first because the record helped to start Sun Records which in a few months created Rockabilly, people kept adding to it and here we are. But it began with a mix of elements. Hell, even the first Rock "hit" Rock Around The Clock, took the melody line of the verse from Hank Williams 'Move It On Over'...

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[–] PaulG28 14 years ago

I just dont agree with the statment that whites and blacks had a equal part in the creation of rock and roll.Both had influence but I would have to say the African American community had a bigger hand in making rock n roll

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

My question is why!? I mean if you listen, actually listen you can hear the influence of both, it's there. Is it a race issue, why can't it be equal? Thats what I don't understand with you. you know, i mean its like Country + Pop + Blues+ southern gospel (black & white applies to this as both races went to there own segregated chuch)= Rock. Theres an exception with Elvis on my point with gospel as Elvis often would sneak into black churches, but the equation is pretty basic if you do any sort of study into American music. Even Charlie "Bird" Parker the jazz musician said of Hank Williams that no man could sing pain like him. Blues music is very important but so is Country. I guess I'm just confused as to your intentions by making a statement like that. but, I guess you have your oppinion on things, so will agree to disagree.

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[–] PaulG28 14 years ago

I just feel that the early stuff has its roots in a predominantly black community its not a race thing with me.I think both white and black had a influence I just think blacks have more "roots" so to speak in the early stuff.

I guees will have too agree to disagree.

But one thing I know is the stuff that people call rock today is not rock so I do hope that it gets back to its roots.

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

"But one thing I know is the stuff that people call rock today is not rock so I do hope that it gets back to its roots. "

At least I can agree with that, I don't know where music is going, but it doesn't look good.

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[–] Blues61 14 years ago

Wow. First of all your statement that "punk + Swing/dancehall = ska" is so completely wrong and bizarre that I don't know where to begin. Ska emerged in the late 1950s in Jamaica by local musicians trying to duplicate the r&b records they heard coming from the southern US, especially New Orleans.

Secondly, rock and roll came into existence when white musicians started playing and recording black rhythm and blues. It's as simple as that. These early white musicians loved black music and tried to emulate it. Of course when white people try to play a music that is so intrinsically black and cultural, it is going to sound different. It's the same today when white blues players or groups try to copy black blues musicians. It just comes out different.

Much of what is labeled as blues today, such as the records that Chess, Vee Jay, Sam Phillips, etc. were putting out, was originally termed rhythm and blues, not blues. Look at any old Billboard chart from that time period and you'll see Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker records listed under rhythm and blues charts.

Rocket 88, as you and many others claim to be the first rock and roll record, was completely devoid of white musical influence. The song in fact is a reworking of Cadillac Boogie, recorded a couple of years earlier by jump singer and bandleader Jimmy Liggins, who by the way, was black. It is just sped up a little and has a stronger, more driving beat with piano and guitar replacing horns as its predominent instruments. There is no 'country melody.'

As to the original post of this thread, I agree that this movie had huge potential but was a bitter disappointment. I think the biggest travesty of the many was portraying the musical genius Little Walter as a drugged-out, second-rate loser. Sure, he had his problems like many of his time, but in many ways, Little Walter was as much of an influence on the music as Muddy Waters or Howlin' Wolf.

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

"First of all your statement that "punk + Swing/dancehall = ska" is so completely wrong and bizarre that I don't know where to begin. Ska emerged in the late 1950s in Jamaica by local musicians trying to duplicate the r&b records they heard coming from the southern US, especially New Orleans."
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My info came from a friend that plays in a local ska band, I guess his info is wrong.
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"Secondly, rock and roll came into existence when white musicians started playing and recording black rhythm and blues. It's as simple as that. These early white musicians loved black music and tried to emulate it. Of course when white people try to play a music that is so intrinsically black and cultural, it is going to sound different. It's the same today when white blues players or groups try to copy black blues musicians. It just comes out different."
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ROCK MUSIC, not blues or R&B, started as Rockabilly a MIXTURE of black R&B and white hilbilly music. Chuck Berry, himself, has talked in great deal about his country influences on his documentry "Hail Hail Rock & Roll"..
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"Much of what is labeled as blues today, such as the records that Chess, Vee Jay, Sam Phillips, etc. were putting out, was originally termed rhythm and blues, not blues. Look at any old Billboard chart from that time period and you'll see Muddy Waters and John Lee Hooker records listed under rhythm and blues charts."
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True, they were also known as race records.
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"Rocket 88, as you and many others claim to be the first rock and roll record, was completely devoid of white musical influence. The song in fact is a reworking of Cadillac Boogie, recorded a couple of years earlier by jump singer and bandleader Jimmy Liggins, who by the way, was black. It is just sped up a little and has a stronger, more driving beat with piano and guitar replacing horns as its predominent instruments. There is no 'country melody"
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Yes, it was Jimmy Liggins, (and a Pete Johnson instrumental) that influenced this song. However, Ike Turner has talked a great deal about this song, including Liggins & Johnson's influence, however he also states that his melody comes from a country song. Turner played in every kind of band there was before forming the Kings Of Rhythm including a stint with a country band. These influences went into the song. (Turner is interviewed on the Road To Memphis DVD)
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I don't know why everyone thinks I'm racist for trying to say that the contribution to American music was equal on BOTH SIDES. It seems they like to bitch that things aren't equal but when you try to show something is equal you're a racist! I'm so sick of this crap!!

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[–] CaTGi91745 15 years ago

How come as soon as someone says "black" they're accused for being racist? It's a touchy subject, but this post has been highly intellectual to me.

I saw this movie today and was appalled by all the false information they pushed into it to make it Hollywood.

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[–] workingonzen 15 years ago

No, it's not factual, but a lot of it is in dispute anyway.

It's always shocking to me when someone claims the blues were started by white people. (unless you consider the circumstances I guess).

The early Lomax recordings were also mountain people's folk songs, but it seems pretty clear that the blues itself came out of the delta. There is W.C. Handy (who actually called himself Father of the Blues). The music bears only a passing resemblence to folk music in my opinion and Johnson was dead by '38.

Yeah, I know wiki isn't entirely reliable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._C._Handy

And, it's true no one knows who originated a lot of those songs because they were passed around so much, but Elvis was hanging around bluesmen early in his career so it's easy to guess where his influences came from.

The mix of the two may be where rock comes from I'll agree with that, rockabilly evolving from those early country stars along with the blues labels,but to claim Sun Records was where it started and not Chess...Chuck Berry if nothing else, is rewriting history. You might even be able to claim Bill Haley as the original but Sun and Elvis did not come first. My parents grew up at that time and around all that and knew some of those people and they'd tell you that isn't how it happened.

here are two more quotes...

Chuck Berry
"...one of the pioneers of rock and roll music. With songs such as "Maybellene" (1955), "Roll over Beethoven" (1956), "Rock and Roll Music" (1957"

and

Bill Haley and the Comets
"The band, also known by the names Bill Haley and The Comets and Bill Haley's Comets (and variations thereof), was the earliest group of WHITE musicians to bring rock and roll to the attention of WHITE America and the rest of the world. From the end of 1954 until the end of 1956 the group would place nine singles into the Top 20"

So at best you could credit Bill Haley and the Comets with contributing to the start of rock and roll as well as Chuck Berry, but Elvis came after.

The question is why you want that to be the case? Why is it unthinkable that African Americans created their own music and influenced Rock?

This movie is all kinds of made up from everything I've read and there are moments that make you wince, but it got some of the basics right.

Also, for me Willie Dixon sort of commercialized the music and I prefer the rawer stuff. From this movie you get the impression that he wrote At Last for Etta James which doesn't seem to be the case...
The thing he was good at was getting his money for his writing which was pretty smart on his part considering what he was up against.

Also, "At Last" is a 1941 song written by Mack Gordon and Harry Warren for the musical film Orchestra Wives, starring George Montgomery and Ann Rutherford" Again wiki.

I love the blues. It's just amazing music, I would love to own the box set of the Chess recordings.

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[–] WarpedRecord 15 years ago

I was very disappointed in this film. The music is good (though the original Chess recordings were better), but the filmmakers were a lot more interested in the sex and drugs than in the blues. Clearly this was made for a younger audience who didn't have a sense of history and doesn't care anyway – they just want to see Beyonce and Mos Def. And I didn't even notice the ELO LP!

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[–] mitchbear 15 years ago

I agree with you 100%.. I watched about 10 minutes of this film and could not take any more...There were just too many inacturacturies that made me want to turn this film off. I think who ever was the art director for this movie should take a History lesson and learn about the culture of the period of the late forties and early fifties. I agree about the Electoric Light Orchestra Lp, but also the 45 RPM record was not that popular during the time period the film is suppose to take place. I remember seeing a lot of "Chess" 78 RPM records around when I was a kid in the fifties. A lot of other information in the film was very unture and the revisionist version of history is totally a mess here....

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[–] jdanielwilliams 15 years ago

There was nothing revisionist about this film. They simply got some small details wrong.

But if you toe-tag Elvis devotees just can't accept the fact that it was black musicians that initiated the changes in popular music that led to rock-n-roll, so be it.

Willy Dixon is shaking his head - he' already laughed all the way to the bank.

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[–] mitchbear 14 years ago

I am not knocking the contribution of Black Musicans at that time, I was just knocking the BAD art direction and how they got the time period all wrong. I actually wanted to see this film succeed. I love the music and the artists. I just wanted to see it done right and not see characters driving a 1957 vintage car in a scene that suppose to take place in the late forties because the director thinks it looks cool or playing a Gibson "Les Paul" that did not exist until the sixties.
I hate young art directors who do not do their home work before doing a period film.

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[–] taggerez 14 years ago

I agree with you, but I wouldn't call it "revisionism," I'd call it Hollywood.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

WHAAAAAT!??? Who says Larry Bird is better then Jordon, I don't even follow sports and I know how great Jordon is! Eminem is a joke, he has two plot lines for his music and uses & re-uses them. I've never even heard of Rocky Marciano, but I've heard of Tyson. You sir, are the racist, and you don't read what I wrote.

I said that rock & roll was a mixture of both black & white BECAUSE IT WAS! You don't know anything about the history of music, you just want to play that little race card of yours.

The fact is, is country had an as equal a hand in rock then blues did. For god sakes,look at Chuck Berry! Growing up, Chuck Berry was not only exposed to blues music, but also country music. The fusion of these two musics, in Berry's subconscious, was magical to say the least! The country-influence in Chucks' songs can be heard in the beat, the vocals, and the guitar. The drums play a swing beat in songs like "Sweet Little Sixteen" and "Roll Over Beethoven". This was a beat that Chuck undoubtedly heard in the country-swing songs of artists such as Hank Williams or Bob Wills. Hank William's "Honky-Tonk Blues" or "Hey Good Lookin'" are two great examples of the swing rhythm that Chuck loved. They also contain "wandering" guitar intros..the kind of intros that can be heard in "Johnny B. Goode" or "No Particular Place To Go". The vocal style of Hank and other country singers found it's way into Chuck's singing. Chuck's pure, bright-tenor tone was in sharp contrast to the rough baritones of blues artists like Muddy Waters or Howlin' Wolf! Lastly, his first record Maybelline (released in 1955 the year after Elvis' That's All Right Mama) is a upbeat re-write of a country standard named "Ida Red".

Nowhere in my post did I say that whites are better then blacks! One should look at whatboth sides gave. Without whites, many hit "black songs" would never have been written-(Leiber & Stoller, and Amhet Ertagan alone!!)Better yet why not actually follow what Martin Luther King said "I have a dream that my four little children ... judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character"

Check out my blog: briannostalgicentertainment.blogspot.com

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

I never said blacks didn't own sports, they do. Our sports greats are few and far between (Babe Ruth, Micky Mantle)as I said I don't follow sports, so I really don't care. As for running the entertainment, Yeah not really... The film studios are owned by a variety of people, jews, whites, blacks, etc...Lastly, saying it was only blacks that shaped this country is the most idiotic and racist thing I have ever read...HELLO!! The light bulb, the automobile, the airplane, movie cameras, the radio-yeah these were pretty helpful in shaping the country. Why do you have a problem with equality? You get mad at me because SOMEHOW you think I'm trying to take something away from you. I'm NOT! People to this day have differences, but we ALL went through hardships, and we all contributed something. But if you choose to stay seperate because you think we're all out to get you, then have a good life!

Check out my blog: briannostalgicentertainment.blogspot.com

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

WTF are you trying to say, you come on here and call me a racist and all this BS. My point, which YOU are missing in every post I make, is that there was EQUAL contribution from both races. YOU seem to want to negate all of that and say that everything is because of black people. If rock music was here only because of black music I would say that, but it's not true! Rock is mixture of so many different styles of American music that to limit it to blues, and R&B is idiotic! You obviously hate white people, because if anything is more succesful then your own race you go on the defensive and play the race card. If you would read what I have to say instead of quickly writing me off and saying BYE! like a child, you would realize the point I'm making! You know nothing about the history of American music, I've studied music as far back as Pope Gregory and the invention of notation so I know what I'm talking about, and make assumptions that are false. You more then likely listen only to rap and r&b and refuse to go past that. You are are narrow minded and I don't wish to talk to you anymore!

Check out my blog: briannostalgicentertainment.blogspot.com

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

"...but does one expect from a typical white guy. You hate it when BLACKS do something better than y'all"

WOW!!!! and you call ME racist!! How did blacks "invent music"? Music wasn't invented you ass! It was created by God for us to enjoy. Man simply discovered music, they did not invent it.Music goes as far back as human existence. Music has always existed.
Prehistoric musical instruments were found in China and date back to 7000 BC. And for God sakes, birds sing, fire crackles, wind blows...DID BLACK PEOPLE MAKE THAT HAPPEN!? Music was first written in the 590's AD. by the monks under Pope Gregory! I think it YOU who hate the fact that whites did more for this country so you attack me!

If it wasn't for us you wouldn't have: the telephone, the radio, the airplane, automobiles, light bulbs, THIS COUNTRY, movies, a way of RECORDING MUSIC, studio multi-track, the electric guitar....should I go one!? If you want to attack Columbus fine, why would I praise an explorer who got lost and wasn't the first one to even explore this land!? I can just as easily say "I bet you worship Obama, and only voted for him because he's black" I'd be right, but I have class unlike yourself! You are a "typical angry black man" who refuses to realize his own racism, because in your sick twisted little world the definition of racism is "when whites hate any other race". You are the type that is the reason for racism in this world, I've been friends with many african americans none of which saw skin color. How dare you attack my parents, when it's obvious yours planted a deep seeded bigotry towards white people within you! I have a life, I'm not the one looking for racism where there isn't any. Keep living the hypocracy! I'm sorry I "wrote a book" I know reading is so hard for you. I have never met a more stupid person on here then you, thank you for that laugh!

Check out my blog: briannostalgicentertainment.blogspot.com

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

I realize now that you are a parody...pretty funny stuff. The whole "white devil" thing was a nice touch. It paints the picture of those hate filled, bow tie wearing nit wits like Farakan. You should develop the charater further I think. How 'bout next time you can say that black people invented air, or dirt, LOL! What's really funny is how you deleted all your posts, but then cut and pasted a previous post this time (4 MONTHS LATER), you are dedicated to this character of the complete idiot. You even went so far as to say you put me on ignore, but you still reply to my posts. Keep up the good work, dude. Everybody loves a fool!

Check out my blog: http://briantheoldmovieguy.blogspot.com

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

Good post, I got attacked for making a point, it's such BS on here sometimes! Though I would like to say that everyone was screwed by the industry. Race wasn't so much a factor as the fact that these guys were cash cows for their labels. One only has to look into Buddy Holly's dealings with his label. If he wasn't being screwed by Norman Petty he wouldn't have gone on that last tour, and he'd still be alive today. Elvis was screwed by the Col. who knocked the edge off of him and put him in those movies. The list goes on and on. I would say, drugs aside, that Ray Charles was one of the few that wasn't screwed over. After leaving Atlantic ABC let him pick material, and own the masters. The industry back then was really rough. Money changing hands, the mob....you hear a sweet tune like "Why Do Fools Fall In Love" and you don't realize all the shady dealings going on behind those doo-wop records.

Check out my blog: http://briantheoldmovieguy.blogspot.com

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

I've always felt kids turned to black music and culture because it was fresh. It was different then the Bing Crosby's, Peggy Lee's, etc... In that respect I don't see racism on the part of the kids. They danced to Jackie Wilson because they liked him, and would have loved a chance to meet him. I've read Little Richard's book and he talks about the white kids jumping down from the balcony's and dancing with the black kids who were in the front rown (because Richard was a black act). The racism I feel, is on the part of SOME of the parents. We've all seen the video clips of parents standing up against rock & roll. I don't think it was everyone though. I think Elvis was such a shock because instead of watering down blues and R&B he sang it with the feel of the original. That's why I've never seen it fair to go after Elvis for stealing black music. He, on many occasions, showed he had huge respect for these musicians. In fact was friends with many. BB King said that Elvis was the first white guy to call him "Sir". Lastly, many black musicians have cited country music as an influence. Chuck Berry talks about this in "Hail Hail Rock & Roll, Ray Charles recorded country music due to his past playing in a country group, and Ike Turner talks about it on the Martin Scorcese documentry. I think the main problem on this board is that people take things at face value. They don't want to look into it's past and see how things changed, where influences came from etc...American music is a complex study (and a long journey), people just choose to ignore certain facts.

Check out my blog: http://briantheoldmovieguy.blogspot.com

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] bpmct 14 years ago

Exactly, hope you didn't think I was going after you...I agree with you! I was more or less talking in general. It's odd to me that this is such a heated topic.

Check out my blog: http://briantheoldmovieguy.blogspot.com

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] hatr 12 years ago

Elvis was inspired by black music and freely admitted that. That's not stealing, it's adapting and developing.
As for the main topic, yes the film was highly flawed.

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