MovieChat Forums > The Descendants (2011) Discussion > Can someone explain the perpetuity thing...

Can someone explain the perpetuity thing with the land?


it seemed like they were going to have to give up the land after 7 years or something?

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I wrote a fairly detailed explanation in an earlier thread, which IMDB has apparently seen fit to delete.

Anyway, the bottom line:

The weren't going to give up the land, they were just going to be forced to distribute it out of the trust to the various (and numerous) beneficiaries.

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Right now, Matt King controls what is done with the property as he is the Trustee for the Trust. However, the beneficiaries may have some rights to fight, but that would be expensive to do. If the Trust is dissolved because of the RAP, then each and every beneficiary (i.e. each cousin/relative) because a 'joint tenant' and gets a certain portion interest in the land. So for example, Cousin A gets 1/52 interest, Cousin B gets 1/52 interest, etc.

It becomes a nightmare because no one person can sell the entirety of land, they can only sell their small interest and no developer would want only a small interest, they'd want the whole thing. So the developer would have to go to all 52 cousins and convince them to sell their interest. And no one would really want to go first, they'd all want to go last because the last person, the "hold out," would get the biggest offer. Or the developer would have to get all 52 in one place to all agree at the same time to sell to him.

Now there are also ways to legally divide the land into the interests, but that too is difficult, likely impossible unless one or a very small group control the majority of interests.

So Matt's solutions primarily come down to either potentially donating or selling the land to the State, which some cousins might fight him on because the land is worth a lot more than I bet the state could pay, or trying to raise the money to buy out the cousins. Maybe he could get enough of the 'keep the land' cousins to pool their money to buy out the 'sell out' cousins.

I just wasn't sure Matt's feelings were 100% "pro Hawaii", it seemed that at least part of the reason he didn't want to sell was because he didn't want the real estate agent to get rich.

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just a plot contrivance. tho, if taken seriously it really makes him a really stupid lawyer/ estate planner.



His name...was Julio Iglesias!

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As I understood it (which, granted, is based on filling in some blanks, as they don't exactly go into a lot of detail), it doesn't reflect on his legal acumen.

My understanding was that the trust they're talking about was set up long, long before Matt King was even born, which I think lets him off the hook on that score.

It isn't at all unusual in well-prepared trusts (indeed, I think it's pretty standard) to include a "perpetuities savings clause." The problem the drafter is trying to solve is that if a trust - looking at it from the start - might possibly stay in existence too long, then it's invalid altogether. The solution is to include a provision that says that, no matter what else happens, the trust will terminate (and the corpus will be distributed) not later than [some savings event]. A common savings event might be, for example, 21 years after the death of longest-living descendant of Joseph Kennedy who is alive when the trust is created. People do (or did, anyway) actually use the Kennedies sometimes, rather than their own descendants, just because they figured there were a lot of them (though experience has proved them to have a disturbing tendency to be short-lived).

Anyway - though the exact details aren't explained (because that would be about as boring as this post, if for no other reason) - my guess was that the relevant trust was about to have its savings clause become operative, thanks to the death of some "measuring life" about 14 years before the movie's time frame.

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good points.



His name...was Julio Iglesias!

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The script makes it pretty clear that breaking up the trust is something the state of Hawaii did to them, and not something the trust did to itself.

The first mention is when Matt mentions the "law against perpetuaties," which is how government forces large valuable family properties to be broken up and sold rather than letting them continue to be kept in the family for centuries.

England did something similar after World War II. It forced the owners of English castles with their thousands of acres of adjoining properties to be broken up and sold.

All that valuable land just sitting unused really upsets greedy politions and merchants.

See Wikipedia, "Rule Against Perpetuaties." (Actually I'm surprised one of you didn't research this question rather than just ask it on a chat board. The Scientific Method really must be dead!)


"Stupidity got us into this mess, why doesn't it get us out?" - Will Rogers

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I didn't research the Rule Against Perpetuities on Wikipedia: I learned it in law school, and have actually dealt with it in legal practice (though not really recently).

Bad draftsmen do occasionally do things in such a way that the Rule Against Perpetuities has unintended consequences. This is a sort of side-plot point in the movie "Body Heat." That doesn't, however, seem to be the situation here (see posts above).

Not really relevant, but: whatever Wikipedia might have to say on the subject, the Rule Against Perpetuities in England was around looong before World War II. It predates American independence, which is why US law wound up getting it from English law (before independence, American law was - for the most part - English law).

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The RAP has been around since the days of Henry VIII. The RAP is somewhat complicated to explain and understand. I think the best way for most people to understand it, is that is is very difficult to control the inheritence of your land for more than (approximately) 100 years after your death.

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It makes sense that this rule exists. If some people who own land had their way, NO ONE would ever control it or inherit or profit from it!! It is ridiculous for someone to control property long after they are dead and gone.

Will it to your descendants and let the chips fall where they may. The reason this was so important to the movie was the beauty of it.
If it was prairie land in Texas or Oklahoma or Kansas, no one would be crying. Especially since those properties most likely had OIL on them. So not to distribute the land to benefit your ancestors is perverted.

I agree with the RAP especially since these trusts don't last much longer than 50-100 years. And by the way, someone is paying taxes on all that land as it sits there doing no one any good.

How would you like to inherit 3 ranches with thousands of acres of land and not have the money to pay the taxes on it? And you couldn't sell it because of the trust clause?

see the problem? If you can't pay the taxes, what happens to the land? The govt gets it.
In the movie, once the 7 years was up it sounded like hawaii was gonna decide what to do with it.
Why do that when you can sell it and decide yourself?

Matt was wrong.

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One of the tragedies of Hawaii is the over development that has taken place there. According to the movie they had 25,000 acres of some of the last pristine untouched wildlife in Hawaii. Selling it off to developers would have been a travesty. Already losing his wife, Matt wasn't ready to lose one more precious thing, so made a last ditch effort to preserve the inheritance and the untouched land. You sort of see what he is thinking after he returns from visiting the property and they show clips of bland golf courses and cookie cutter resorts. He has something beautiful and unspoiled and doesn't want to lose it and see it spoiled and developed.

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I think Matt realized that there were some things that were more important and signing away the land would have lost a part of his heritage as he mentioned it.

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Nuts berry, he is not a stupid lawyer, and he didn't create the trust. The rule against perpetuities is a very old property rule we inherited from English law. It is a restriction on the way you can transfer property. The person transferring the property can decide to give it with conditions, for example, to his/her spouse for life then to their eldest child for life then to the eldest grandchild, etc. Theoretically, the transfer or could decide to whom the property goes for several generations or even centuries, but the rule against perpetuities prevents that placing a limit. The suggestion in this film is that such limit has been reached, so that the property had to be definitively given to somebody.

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the property had to be definitively given to somebody


At the end of the movie, Matt said they had 7 years in which to figure out how to keep the land. So the movie did end somewhat open-ended in that regard.

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A good point to note. Apparently, quite a few viewers understood the ending to mean that the land would remain undeveloped. The actual ending was more unsettled than that.

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at the end I thought Matt had 7 years to figure somethin ut, but he did not know what he was going to do since he clearly did not have enough $ to buy out all the cousinds

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Basically, real property cannot be tied up in a trust "forever and ever."

At the time the trust was set up, the creator of the trust could not specify a duration that exceeded the life of the longest-lived person who was alive and involved with the trust at the time the trust began, plus 21 years.

I'm sure the others said it better, but bottom line, there was no one left in the trust who had been alive when it was first set up, and the last such person had died 14 years prior to the events in this film, leaving them only 7 years to dissolve the trust and sell the land to someone else.

Lol, when I was in law school when Jesus was a boy, my Trusts professor said no one really understood the RAP. It can get pretty involved, I believe.






Get me a bromide! And put some gin in it!

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I could look this up, and will, but now this makes me wonder how Wrigley pulled off the Catalina deal even more...

I'm happy Catalina isn't developed. I don't live there, so perhaps I would feel differently.

But I am a California native.

What's happened to this state in the past...just the past thirty years is horrible.

That's what I was old enough to notice.

I understand change is healthy and progress is good.

But the unbroken sameness of the planned communities, malls with their anchor stores, mini malls, and "light" industry parks that remain 1/2 unused...

We have truly paved over Paradise.
What's more, we keep using more and more water to wash down our parking lots.

And...instead of re-gentrifying our older communities, putting money back into those areas, we just move twenty miles up the way and start fresh.

I'll stop.

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