MovieChat Forums > Never Back Down (2008) Discussion > Teaching your sons to fight?

Teaching your sons to fight?

posted 15 years ago by Hythlodaeus
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Are/do you going to teach your sons to fight?

When I was a kid things were different than they are now. Fighting wasn't MMA it was boxing, only girls kicked. I grew up in Kentucky then had to move to NY and people didn't fight with as much "honor" there and I learned to fight minimally in order not to get beat up. Most people who fought didn't have a clue (neither did I but I could defeat my peers).

I never purposefully fought but I was glad that I wasn't afraid to fight. Well, as an adult I've noticed how many people have never been in a fight and when we're in a situation where tensions rise, the men tend to stand around waiting for an act of God. It's important for a man to know he can take a punch without shattering or else he'll always shy away from a fight.

And let's face it, men are meant to fight - if not with their fists then with their mind and soul. Men don't stand up for anything anymore.

My oldest son is only 13 but all three of my sons are in Taikwando (I can't spell it but I pay for it) - and last week I started sparring with them - they had been sparring in Taikwando for a while but my son (who's strong as heck) couldn't even begin to even begin to get a punch in (though he almost got me with some good kicks), so I think we're going to keep practicing. It's fun and I think it's good for them.

I'm a Christian and many of my friends don't agree with teaching fighting - I'm not completely sure if I agree but it's what I'm doing. I tend to be an angry man and people think that fighting feeds anger, I think depending on your attitude, fighting can decrease anger as pointed out in the flick. However, it can be very bad, when I got better at fighting I loved it and by God's kindness to me, I didn't become another angry man picking fights all the time. The last fight I had was in college, beating the crap out of a guy who was blackmailing and stalking my future wife and as much as I probably should, I can't regret that.

I expect my sons to know how to fight but never to fight. But knowing they are ready (enough) they will be more effective in various other ways. And in the very rare case they really need to, they can.

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[–] Viltrumite 15 years ago

Only girls kick? What kind of dumbass mentality is that? In a serious fight, anyone who doesn't use their feet is a fool.

If you teach your sons how to fight, you should teach your daughters, too. I've seen girls get their asses beat by other girls who are much tougher.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 15 years ago

This kicking thing has been discusssed all over this and many other boards.

How old are you? Depending on where and when you were born, yes kicking was considered a sleezy thing to do. I know that's not the case anymore but in early 1980's Kentucky only a girl kicked in a schoolyard fight.

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[–] Viltrumite 15 years ago

I'm 27. I grew up in London. I don't see how striking someone with your feet is any worse than doing it with your fists. In early 80s Kentucky, would a guy seriously get grief for kicking in a fight? What about a fight on the street between adults, or against a mugger? I'm intrigued.

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[–] voodoochile009 15 years ago

You guys are talking around each other. In your typical school yard fight, something playful or in good fun, or even if it is something casually sanctioned by both parties, it is customary not to kick. Now if it's self defense, you do whatever you need to do to survive. But unless kicking is explicitly placed in the rules, in a casual fight it is honorable to avoid kicking.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 15 years ago

My point is, in school yard fights in the 80s and 90s when people were seriously trying to hurt each other (but the fight was all bravado and bluster) - there wasn't any kicking that I remember - yeah, someone in the crowd might kick or push someone to try to make the fight more interesting but typically the people in the fight didn't do it.

Funny thing is that such rules were off for girls fighting. My sister got in this fight in school where she had this sharp ring that she used to scrape and shred the crap out of the girl's face - she knew the girl was really proud of her looks so my sister took care of that problem as best she could until one of the teacher broke it up - my sister was pretty and used to get a lot of jealousy from the other girls who would start trouble with her - girl's fights get really ugly.

So to some extent, men's fighting getting ugly today isn't a sign of men being tougher it's a sign that men now don't have much sense that there's an honorable way to fight and a dishonorable way. Whatever gets the job done, it's affected the way men look at their wives, their girlfriends, their opponent on the battlefield, the professor in the debate hall etc. etc.

We don't fight "fair" anymore - in our postmodern world, there is no "fair" since God doesn't exist, there's no justice, we do whatever it takes to get by.

The law of the jungle.

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[–] Viltrumite 15 years ago

When I was in high school, people punched and kicked, but there was always an unspoken rule that neither party would take it too far, mainly out of fear of getting kicked out of school. Of all the stuff I saw, though, I never saw anything as deliberately vicious as that business with your sister. I hope the other girl wasn't permanantly scarred.

Thinking honourably is extremely dangerous. The last fight I got into, I was punched in the nuts by a guy over a head shorter than me, and almost twice my age. I wasn't prepared for that at all. This guy was an animal, but, I'm not.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 15 years ago

Yeah, the few times I've been in a fight not at school or not near the public, where anything could happen, I was very careful, stood back and made sure I had an exit plan in case something weird happened.

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[–] Viltrumite 15 years ago

This fight came out of nowhere though. My friends and I were attacked by some drunk guys, two were brothers in their 40s-50s, and the other two were the sons of one guy, we found this out after. My friend got his jaw shattered by one of the younger guys. Out of everyone, I was the only sober one, so I came out relatively okay.

I don't want kids, but if I do have any, they'll be able to stick up for themselves. My own father got called into my school because I had a fight that i didn't start, and he told the teacher that he didn't raise me to be a weakling, the teacher told him a load of crap about how fighting is against school policy and that I should have told a teacher. Thing was, though, most teachers would tell you to stop telling tales if another kid attacked you.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 15 years ago

So why don't you want kids?

I think the movie had a lot of good points here. Men who fight tend to be like the A Boy Called Sue song by Jonny Cash - either they didn't have a dad or he was tough and cruel.

My dad taught me to fight a little but not much - my parents split up and I had to go back to New York by myself and scared crapless.

Well, I decided I had to fight or else spend my life getting picked on (before this in Kentucky I had been there since kindergarten so I was one of them and didn't get into fights) but in New York I was like Huck Fin in Queens or something - not fun.

So I don't see how a boy shouldn't learn to fight. I think it's critical - and though I'm a Christian and the Bible says turn the other cheek, I don't know how well that fits into the school years.

If my son was in a fight at school I'd probably just agree with what the teacher said then tell my son, "Okay, you got in trouble for this fight, you've got to face the consequences - suspension etc. - but I'm proud of you, now don't fight unless you have to from now on." It's true that most teachers don't understand.

I'll never forget one time, actually twice, in 8th grade I got into one small and one big fight in English class and my teacher - who was this really nice old guy who I think understood I was a pretty good kid, he didn't get me in trouble or nothing he just took me out in the hall and said something really grandfatherly like, "Hey, don't do this anymore, Okay? I can't have you fighting in class." - he didn't even report me, either time.

So teachers can be understanding sometime. This teacher was in New York, a mile from Queens but we were in this happy little white town full of kids who wanted to be tough but weren't - it wasn't until I moved away that it became a bad area.

I'm going to be dealing with this soon - my kids have all homeschooled all their life and this year my 15 year old daughter and 13 year old son (and my other three kids) are going to be going to school for the first time in a couple of weeks. My kids will be in a redneck school in rural Kentuckiana / Southern Indiana. We'll see how they take it, I think they'll do fine.

I got out the boxing gloves to practice with my two oldest sons and we had fun and they do Taikwando sparring - I figure they'll be in good shape but until they get into their first real fight they'll be scared - they'll probably have one and then probably never have to be in a fight again. For most men, one's enough - no need to get into fights all the time, you just need to know you can if you have to.

Not that you'd win but just not being afraid counts for a ton. I've seen and been in a lot of fight situations where just being unafraid before a fight will make a lot of guys back down. So if you've had one good fight (either one you won or one you really know you did well in and had a strong opponent) you will likely never have to have another.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 15 years ago

Also, I'm all for kids sticking up for themselves but as long as that's not because the dad doesn't give a crap about teaching them or protecting them. A dad's got to give their sons (and all their kids) confidence and strength and a feeling of being protected.

Ideally every boy at some all too short time in their childhood should believe with all their heart that their dad is the toughest guy around and be able to take anyone and that son should feel like their dad would never let anything happen to them - that they can stick up for themselves because their Dad always stuck up for them too.

Yeah, someday they grow up and realize that's not true but they know that their dad wanted to protect them and did teach them (within limits) to stick up for themselves.

It's a rare thing today but that's the way things ought to be.

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[–] Viltrumite 15 years ago

^^^^I never really thought about the above. I guess you're right, though.
I don't think I'll ever have kids because I like time to myself too much. Sure, I look after my younger relatives, but that's only every now and again.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 15 years ago

Yeah, having kids is the toughest job you'll ever love (even harder than the Army despite the advertising).

Men love to go out and fight (at least at first) - but when it comes time to give up the things we love for our family we men can't do it. I know how that goes, was talking to a friend yesterday who said that he feels like he gave up so much for his family but he didn't get anything back. I know how he feels but it doesn't have to be that way. He said he wishes he still had time to read and stuff.

So did you spend a lot of time by yourself as a kid? I was the youngest in my family so I spent a lot of time alone - I think that's why I need tons of time alone now, but most of the time when I get that time alone, I feel like I wasted it anyway. I know I did when I was a teen-ager.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 15 years ago

I'm talking a schoolyard fight - which is typically the only time most men in typical middle-class circles will ever fight. College is a little different but few college educated men I meet today have ever been in a fight, which means mainstream Americans haven't been in fights except little scuffles in elementary school.

And yeah, in early 80's Kentucky schools, you'd get a lot grief for kicking in a fight. Now in high school, depending on the group of people it could get ugly anywhere, but even in New York / Long Island (which is way tamer than the city) in the early 90s - the fights I saw and was in, people never kicked.

If it's a mugger, murderer or otherwise "uncivilized" fight - of course anything goes.

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[–] Kuato_and_George 15 years ago

I think it's good for someone to know how to defend themselves. I believe strongly in it. But if they aren't interested, I won't force it on them.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 15 years ago

Well, I wouldn't force it either but depending on what they end up facing in life someone else might.

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[–] Kuato_and_George 15 years ago

Well yeah if they were getting bullied, obviously I'd want to take care of it. But even then, some people just don't want to fight. Not every person who gets mugged, jumped, etc. runs out and learns how to fight. It's not in everyone's nature.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 15 years ago

I agree, my point mostly is that it's bad for a man to feel powerless. But whether it's in a man's nature or not, he does have to do certain things like protect his family etc. That's not a choice once he has a family, even if it doesn't come naturally to him, he has to do it.

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[–] Kuato_and_George 15 years ago

It's bad for anyone to feel powerless (when it comes to your physical safety).

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