MovieChat Forums > (500) Days of Summer (2009) Discussion > favourite little details

favourite little details

posted 12 years ago by ntsci
15 replies | jump to latest

I love it when a film puts in little details that are not crucial to the story, but add to it by enriching the film and even change your perception of the film
One of the strength of this film is little details that you might miss if you weren't watching closely.

My two favourites are
(1) When Summer kisses Tom at the photocopy machine (a scene worth mentioning for its sexuality as well) after she kisses him, she turns away with a disappointed expression on her face like she had expect it to be more fulfilling. And of course that presages what she says when in the park on day 488... something I was never sure of with you.

(2) "Our rooftop patio". When she invited him to the party she said "our rooftop patio". Not my rooftop patio; "our". He didn't notice the "our" and neither do a lot of viewers who think she led him on. But that "our" is crucial to understanding the disaster of that event. "Our" implies she was living with someone. If Tom had ask who she was living with he might have avoided the whole crushed expectations scene... but then we would have been denied a great scene and perhaps he needed that kick in the ass to get him moving on.

Anyone else have any little details that they enjoyed.

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RIGOLETTO: I'm denied that common human right, to weep.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ntsci 12 years ago

Good observations, though I don't know if she had already hooked up with the new guy that early... but its possible.

Either way, she might have just wanted to avoid going to her place because she had already made up her mind to break it off and didn't want to be alone in case she weakened and changed her mind. It was obvious to me that breaking up with him was not an easy decision.

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RIGOLETTO: I'm denied that common human right, to weep.

[–] patrickbohn 12 years ago

(1) "She turns away with a disappointed expression"

Summer was so disappointed in her kiss with Tom that she continued to kiss him—exclusively, we're led to believe—for eight months? That makes no sense to me.

(2) "Our rooftop patio". When she invited him to the party she said "our rooftop patio"."Our" implies she was living with someone. If Tom had ask who she was living with he might have avoided the whole crushed expectations scene.

But I would say that Summer was deliberately misleading him. I believe the actual line she uses was "I was thinking of having this party on our rooftop patio" (If I'm wrong, correct me, but I'm going to proceed with the point based on that being the line.)

1. Her use of "I" regarding the party implies singularity, not two people. If she is living with her boyfriend, as you propose, wouldn't the proper phrase be "My boyfriend and I are throwing a party?"

2a. The "our" does imply more than one person, but the "our" only pertains to the rooftop, not the party. And because Summer lives in an apartment complex, I'm guessing the rooftop is not JUST for her use. So I interpreted that "our" to mean "the rooftop of the people who live in this complex"

2b. But even IF the rooftop is hers and the "ours" refers to her and the, why is she playing a game with "our"? Our signals plurality, but it also implies a familiarity with multiple parties. Since Summer KNOWS that Tom doesn't know she has a boyfriend, if the "Our" does refer to a boyfriend, she's being deliberately misleading about who the "Our" refers to.

Either Summer implied she was throwing the party on her own, or she decided not to mention who this "our" was. Either way, she was unclear about the context of this party, and, as usual, Tom just blindly went along, questioning nothing.

Honestly, the whole train/wedding scene just annoys me to no end. Why are Tom, Mackenzie, and Summer taking a train to a wedding? How, in the course of their conversation on the train/at the wedding, does it NEVER come up that Summer has a boyfriend? What in God's name were they talking about?

[–] ntsci 12 years ago

"Summer was so disappointed in her kiss with Tom that she continued to kiss him exclusively, we're led to believe for eight months? That makes no sense to me."

She was obviously attracted to him, but her expression suggested that she didn't experience the wow she was hoping for. Its not that she didn't enjoy it, but her look suggest something was missing... and she says that later. Some people expect magic for a kiss.

The train scene occurred because they both know a couple who are getting married, not sure why that puzzles you. What did they talk about? Well lets see, what did they usually talk about? Songs, movies, careers etc. Almost NEVER about their relationship.

Summer doesn't know how obsessed he is, largely because he never tell her.
Remember she asked him in an email "does this mean you are ready to be friends".
Tom actually has a problem with expressing his emotion -- keep his feeling inside, so can we blame Summer for not being aware of how big a crush he still has. But she may not want to upset him so she doesn't mention her new relationship status, and he doesn't ask. I'd suggest that he didn't ask because he might be afraid of the answer... still hoping.

I'll have to watch the scene to verify the I, but that doesn't contradict the issue of the our. If she just meant that it was open to everyone in the building, she would say "the rooftop patio", not "our rooftop patio".

I don't think Summer was deliberately misleading him, I think she was just not very thoughtful

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RIGOLETTO: I'm denied that common human right, to weep.

[–] patrickbohn 12 years ago

The train scene puzzles me because I'm not sure why one would take a train (and then presumably what, take a cab? Walk?) to a wedding that seems to be close by and not drive themselves in a car. It's a (weak) plot device to get them talking, IMO.

As far as the conversation/wedding, my opinion is, that if you're dealing with an ex, especially one who *you* broke up with, it's a crappy thing to neglect mentioning you have a new significant other all while slow dancing and falling asleep on the ex's shoulder. How surprised can you be that someone may read into that something other than what it is?

"I don't think Summer was deliberately misleading him, I think she was just not very thoughtful."

This is my whole problem with Summer. It's like she can't believe anyone could interpret her actions in any way other than she intends. You don't rent and act out adult movies with a guy and share things with him I've shared with no one else while we're lying in bed together, and then be stunned when he considers you more than friends.

Summer likes to think of herself as impulsive and carefree, but the truth is, doesn't care about the affect her actions may have on other people. Tom explicitly calls her out on that in their final scene together when he says "You just do what you want, don't you?" What Summer doesn't realize (or care about) is that being in a relationship/friendship with someone means you DON'T just do what you want. It means you take the other person's potential feelings into consideration too.

Of course, it's also my whole problem with Tom, who should have learned by now to stop letting his expectations guide what he does and start asking questions he might not like the answer to (like his sister suggests). Tom prefers to live in the fantasy he's created rather than facing things he might find unpleasant. His character flaw exposes him to a lot of miscommunication, especially with Summer.

[–] ntsci 12 years ago

> I'm not sure why one would take a train (and then presumably what, take a cab? Walk?) to a wedding that seems to be close by and not drive themselves in a car

I don't know enough about the community in which they live or where the wedding was held, or the time of day to make comment on it, but in my city taking a train from where I live to the other side of town is often a lot faster, less stressful, and can be cheaper (parking, gas, wear and tear etc.), than driving.

Or, maybe they are both going all environmental.

I travel by commuter train every time I go into the office, so I have no problem with the scene.

"You don't rent and act out adult movies with a guy and share things with him I've shared with no one else while we're lying in bed together, and then be stunned when he considers you more than friends."

Oh come on, she gave him the guys dream relationship -- sex without commitment. How was she to know he was NOT like 90% of men and not be happy just sleeping with such a hot chick. Anyway, she had warned him!

By the way in my experience women do not reveal their inner secrets to their lover, they do so with friends. He's too inexperienced to realize that. He over interpreted their intimacy.

"doesn't care about the affect her actions may have on other people"

There you ignore how sad she was before she broke it off. She was concerned about hurting his feelings.

"His character flaw exposes him to a lot of miscommunication, especially with Summer."

I agree with you there.
I don't think the film blames either of them. More people take Tom's side, but if you watch closely the film corrects that misperception. Both Tom and Summer, are both in their own little worlds -- hes in love, but won't reveal to her just how strong he feels for her, and she is not in love, and oblivious of the effect she has on him. It didn't work. No ones to blame. The brilliant thing about the film is that it shows the failure that results form two naïve people dealing with emotions neither really understand, who get them selves into trouble due to their communication problems, but also shows it as a learning experience for both. While the party scene was hard for him, it actually helped him because it gave him a good kick in the ambitions, so while it was thoughtless of her not to clarify that she had a new guy, he was at least as much to blame for still clinging onto a passion in spite of what she had kept saying.

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RIGOLETTO: I'm denied that common human right, to weep.

[–] patrickbohn 12 years ago

"Oh come on, she gave him the guys dream relationship -- sex without commitment."

But that's the thing: Sex without commitment isn't Tom's dream relationship. (It's also not mine, FWIW.) The movie explicitly tells us, "He believed he would never be truly happy until he found 'the one.'" Tom is looking for true love. He believes in that. He's not looking for sex. If that's what Summer's "giving" him then it just proves (to me) that Summer is more concerned with herself than others. Because that's not what Tom wants. It's what SHE wants.

Remember what Tom says after Summer says "I've never told anyone that before"? Tom says "I guess I'm not just anyone." This would have been a good time for Summer to say "Actually, Tom, we're just friends." You know, like she tries to say during the fight.

And I would hardly say Tom's the only one inexperienced in love. He is, but summer's had three relationships. One, with Charlie, she calls "brief". And "The Puma" and her were during a semester abroad. Summer's not exactly a worldly person when it comes to love either.

[–] ntsci 12 years ago

I think if we asked around a large percentage of men would love to have a relationship with a really hot girl that did not involve any commitment. In fact it is a very common complaint from women that men have trouble committing. I like the way the film rejected that stereotype and turned it around.

About things she's never told anyone, if a woman tells a man some intimate secret it means she is viewing him as a friend; possibly as a lover as well, but definitely a friend. For mates people tend to be more guarded about what they talk about because impression management is of vital importance. With a friends you can tell them stuff that you might not mention to a potential spouse. As an example, I used to have this friend who would tell me any dream she could remember. She very specifically told me I was the only person she felt she could tell her dreams to. We were never lovers.

"This would have been a good time for Summer to say "Actually, Tom, we're just friends.""

Why would she want to throw away what she has. Anyway, as noted in the film Tom does not tell her how he feels (ever really). He never comes clean about the depth of his feeling for her either before or after their breakup. So she doesn't know that he's not capable of just having fun. Anyway, as I've noted before, her statement "something I was never sure of with you" suggests that she did think about having a more permanent relationship with him. That was not her priority, but she thought about it. Again she broke up because of the fighting. At the time when they were getting all intimate she didn't know they were going to break up. They may well not have even been fighting at the time.

"If that's what Summer's "giving" him then it just proves (to me) that Summer is more concerned with herself than others."

Well of course, there we agree. She is self focused. SO IS TOM. His entirely infatuation with her is selfish. He wanted to possess her even though she says that that is NOT what she wants.

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RIGOLETTO: I'm denied that common human right, to weep.

[–] oh_no_mrbill 12 years ago

I think if we asked around a large percentage of men would love to have a relationship with a really hot girl that did not involve any commitment.

What you're misreading here is that Summer is not just "a really hot girl" to Tom. She is the "girl of his dreams" and it is obvious throughout the movie that Tom feels this way about her, but she continues to lead him on.

By the way, your assumption about men never wanting commitment is a pop culture stereotype, and it is in my experience, greatly exaggerated and basically wrong. Men DO want to find a girl and settle down with her. We want to have a wife, kids, a house, the whole deal. When we are in love, we want commitment deeply, even though we like the freedom of being uncommitted. The "right girl" will overwhelm that desire.

Summer knew Tom was head over heels for her, knew she would ultimately break his heart and yet kept pushing the relationship forward toward that point. In my opinion, she does deserve blame in this movie.

By the way I liked your OP, those were good details I hadn't noticed.

[–] ntsci 12 years ago

"What you're misreading here is that Summer is not just "a really hot girl" to Tom."

I'm not misreading that, yes I know Tom is stuck on Summer. But she doesn't continue to lead him on because he doesn't tell her how he feels. Also as I've noted in other post, she did think about the possibility of a long term relationship with him, in particular she say "something I was never sure of with you", not "I never thought of with you".

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RIGOLETTO: I'm denied that common human right, to weep.

[–] StrongCarl 11 years ago

I don't know enough about the community in which they live or where the wedding was held, or the time of day to make comment on it, but in my city taking a train from where I live to the other side of town is often a lot faster, less stressful, and can be cheaper (parking, gas, wear and tear etc.), than driving.

They lived in Los Angeles (Summer closer to Hollywood based on the view from the rooftop; Tom more "downtown"). The wedding is in Santa Barbara, CA, roughly 100 miles away. Tom has a car; they're driving several times together. It does seem odd that he wouldn't have driven such a distance for a wedding.

[–] ntsci 11 years ago

The one time I've driven in LA, was enough to make me never want to drive in LA EVER again!!! Maybe his car was in the shop or not working well, maybe he was turning environmental, maybe he just likes the train. Its not important. Its just a means to get them accidently together and its not a big deal.

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RIGOLETTO: I'm denied that common human right, to weep.

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ntsci 11 years ago

Yes indeed, we hear what we want to hear.

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RIGOLETTO: I'm denied that common human right, to weep.

[–] lollipop15 11 years ago

- In the Expectations vs. Reality scene where Tom arrives to Summer's party- he expects the other guests to acknowledge him when he arrives but they don't. I've always thought that it's because Tom expected Summer to tell the other guests about him, but in reality she didn't because he doesn't really have a big significance in her life now.

- In Summer's apartment she has a black bowler hat with a green apple on top of it in reference to this picture: http://emallon.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/son-of-man.jpg

- Also in the Expectation vs. Reality scene, Tom watches Summer introduce a guy to her fiancé but thinks nothing of it.

- I love that Summer wears blue with every single outfit.

- Tom watches Summer catch the bouquet at Millie's wedding. He smiles, probably thinking that he will get back together with Summer and they will get married.

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