Has this been Considered?


I've read many of the posts on this discussion board but I'm sure sure if anyone has said this. Do you think it is possible that Summer WAS considering a serious relationship with Tom? We are all aware of her original rejection of the whole love and fate thing, but we also see how much her opinion changes on the subject by the end of the film.

My thoughts are Summer realized pretty early on what Tom's true feelings were, but wasn't exactly sure how she felt about entering a GF/BF situation at the time. It is at this time she expresses that she isn't looking for anything serious and gives Tom an out if he chooses to take it. Spoiler -> He doesn't

Fast forward about 4 months and you'll find Tom confronting Summer about their current status as a couple and the response is "I'm Happy, Aren't you happy?" Again, I think it is apparent to Summer that Tom isn't in this for friendship, and she is buying more time to figure this out for herself. Up to this point the relationship is shown to be completely positive and while Summer isn't necessarily ready, she is warming to the idea of being with Tom the way he wants.

It isn't until 5 months later that Tom punches out the dude in the bar that begins the downfall of the relationship. It is clear from this scene that Summer is becoming fed up and bored with Tom. At this point, it isn't her lack of commitment that is killing the relationship, it is Tom's overly possessive and selfish behavior. This is finally when Summer admits she can't give him the consistency he needs, but I believe this is partially a lie. This is what she thought originally, 9 months ago when they first kissed in the copy room BUT. She is only saying this now because Tom is expecting to hear it and it's easier than the truth. The truth being, Tom was becoming manipulative and selfish and simply wasn't fit to be in a relationship with her or anybody.

The only reason Summer returns to Tom's apartment is because she is emotionally attached and even though most everything they once were is gone she simply can't let go. After this, the relationship survives another month until the breaking point at the movies on day 290. Summer realizes that it is time to end it with Tom, and clearly has trouble coming to terms with it. While I think the actual "break-up" is rather cold (this is Summer hiding her feelings) the scene that tells all is the scene outside the movies just beforehand.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts on Tom and Summer's relationship. I felt some people were placing too much blame on one or the other without really considering both sides feelings. I left some points out to try to keep this short(er)and more open for discussion.

Would be happy to hear people's thoughts, criticisms, agreements/disagreements!

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Yeah, I definitely think there was a moment where she was in the relationship seriously. I think (unlike Tom) she just wasn't the type of person who usually ascribed 'soul mate status' to people she was just getting to know, so it took her a lot longer to figure out her own feelings for him. I definitely think she went back to his apartment after the fight because she cared for him and was emotionally invested by then. Maybe not soul-mate invested, but she definitely cared. And I'm one of the viewers who doesn't think her break up with him was actually that cold, but that it would have been quite hard for a person like Summer to bring up her problems with the relationship in a direct way without Tom losing his *beep* (but had he been paying attention he would have seen ages ago that she was unhappy).

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I agree with you that she could have made the break up worse for Tom, but for him it was rather sudden (and that was his fault for not seeing the signs). Not to mention he pushed her into getting the pancakes and if he hadn't the break up could have been postponed. (most likely not for too long, but you never know)

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I like this more than most opinions I've heard. I still side with Tom (I am basically Tom) but I think Summer is a lot more complex than just a "b!tch" or a "tease". Over the course of 500 days, human beings can change a whole lot, and even through a single day feelings aren't 100% one way or the other. I think Summer's view of Tom evolved over time, even as Tom's view of Summer seemed to grow and grow in intensity. What started as a cute office fling became a full blown idolization of "you are The One for me" in Tom's mind, and I think that's ultimately what put Summer off. But she did care about Tom; she spent almost two years with him, and having to break up with him was very hard for her to accept. I think she did consider a serious relationship with Tom, probably numerous times. It just never felt right to her.

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I also end up identifying more with Tom even though he is mostly at fault and that's the beauty of the film. The story is completely from his point of view and it takes a toll on the viewer pushing you onto his side. Only when Tom's sister, Rachel, says "Next time you look back don't only focus on the good stuff" do you get an honest version of the story.

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Oh, for sure. Your entire argument is validated by my favorite line in the movie: "What I was never sure of with you." She was never sure if she wanted a serious relationship with Tom, which means she asked herself the question in the first place. By the end of the movie, it's clear that her emotions were more complex than Tom or the audience may have realized. That's why that last bench scene is so awesome. ^_^

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YES, I was hoping somebody would mention that line, it really carries that much weight. It takes Tom a few seconds to gather what she said, and when he does, he looks away quickly to try and hide his emotions. Before he turns back around you can see that Summer is saddened by the hurt she has caused Tom.

This moment is actually a really good example of how well Zooey and Joe played their respective roles. It was these tiny details (many of which took multiple viewings to catch) that gave this film that much more depth.

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Yes, that line has always carried the whole meaning of the movie to me. Its simplicity and cohesion hit me right between the eyes during my first viewing, and I've never forgotten that feeling.

And big, fat yes to multiple viewings revealing the true depth of this movie.

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I think Tom formated Summer for love. He showed her that she can trust somebody and true love is a possibility.

I think that without him she could never trust anybody. After him, she found true love. He opened her world for the possibility. Like a construction worker that build expensive houses he cannot afford.

I watched this movie again and i needed to say something about it. I love this movie.

And i will watch again and again.

Sorry my bad english, by the way.

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I think at the end of it, both characters had made the other one better. Both Tom and Summer hard learned from each other.

The audience feels more sympathy with Tom, because the pain he goes through is more obvious.

But they both learn lessons, and both come out better people for it. Summer learns that love is possible, and that's she ready for it. She meets a man and very soon is ready for marriage. Before she wasn't even ready to be somebody's girlfriend.

In Tom at the end, we see a man who is finally bold enough to leave a job he feels no passion for to follow something he has dreamed about. There is something more to his life than trying to chase after a woman he has obsessed about since the first time he saw her. When he meets Autumn at the interview, and asks her for a coffee she at first refuses, and he says; "Okay" and turns away before she changes her mind.

With Summer, he is in love with her since the second he knows her, which isn't real love at all. With Autumn, he's interested, but not obsessed. Instead of putting a woman on a pedestal and worshiping her since the second he met her, he's more ready for a real relationship.

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They sat together having a penis shouting match. I had to admit that on some level they were acting less like lovers as much as a couple of college chums.

Going to a bar is not the best place for a couple to hang out and appreciate each other. That seems like another clue the relationship is not so good.

Even though Tom felt like he was on top of the world with Summer, to me the scene with the marching band was a clue that was making too much out of the situation. Poor fellow. Of course we empathize and even love him a little, but splitting with Summer seemed inevitable.

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Sometimes, I think modern men are more romantic and passionate about women than women are with us.

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You might be right and are bound to be in some instances.

Joseph Chastainme
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Marks-the-series/806493646056177

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yes indeed men are more romantic, women are more emotional but less romantic.

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I agree with you that Summer's perspective is not presented in the movie but this is it's beauty, it makes you feel the same pain as Tom does. And there are even deeper layers to this story.

The first time I watched it I could not stop crying because I have experienced exactly the same story as Tom's (although I am a woman) exactly when the movie was promoted, in 2009. There is that kind of love that is so powerful that transforms you, it completely vanishes your ego and this aspect is hard to be presented in the movie. But it is subtly presented with the ending scenes of other character's opinion of what love is because it makes obvious that there are many people that never get to experience this kind of love. His love IS true and it is hard to not be obsessed when you're dealing with such strong feelings. But he is not trying to control her, as he says, he just needs a little more consistency. I think Summer doesn't so much grow bored with Tom or suffocated by his possessiveness, she is more disappointed that he does not understand her conflict. She is just not ready to admit she belongs to him by making it clear to other guys, as she already told him in the beginning - she is not comfortable accepting the role of being someone's ANYTHING. She is afraid of any sort of label, be it gf or even casual sexual partner, maybe this fear of labeling extends to a profession or other roles as well - isn't this her opinion about adulthood that she shared when they first met?

Their whole interaction began with this game she plays, she is communicating him in a coded way a conflict that she has, using their interactions just as an illustration. But these coded messages are related only to her conflict in general, and not related to her feelings, as her feelings are shown in her actions. She says, she does not want to be anyone's gf but then she sends him notes and kisses him in the copy room. She does not want to get serious but she drags him to IKEA to play house. She does not want to get married but cries in the movie theater at a wedding scene and invites Tom to her engagement party. The tragedy is that he did not understand her to the bottom of her conflict. He had a small victory of winning access to understanding her when she shared her dreams and fears that she hadn't told anyone before. But in all other situations he failed to decode the hidden meaning of her messages and only listened to her literately - he thought that her problem is about bf-gf status, is about committing to a relationship and is about getting married, when it is not, it is some abstract fear in general of labeling that goes way beyond the ongoing people and situations, who knows why.

I don't know about other viewers but I got the feeling that her relationships with her fiance is not that romantic but more practical and predictive. I would assume he does not try to understand her deeply as Tom does and doesn't enter into that game of hers. He just doesn't assume that she might have a deeper layer as Tom did. This is why she is not afraid of her fiance to understand and reveal her deepest secrets and face her with her fears, as Tom did. I think she was too scared of Tom and the possibility of him facing her with her own fears so she imposed control over her feelings towards him to protect herself, in the same way she did when her parents got divorced and she cut her hair as immunization. She didn't really stop loving him and you can see that when she enjoys Tom's company in the train, wants to dance with him, it's like a date. He knew this and this is why at the bench he asked her why she wanted to dance with him when then there was already a new guy in her life. Her response was not convincing.

I really feel for Tom and love him for I understand the pain you have when you find someone who is so afraid of their own feelings and you fall under the illusion that love will make them feel better and cure them. In many books I have read that people are so used to conditional love that they don;t know what true love is, and when they meet someone that loves them unconditionally, they are afraid as we are all afraid of the unknown. Sometimes people in their defenses affirm the opposit of their true desire and this is what I think of Summer's words to Tom in IKEA. After having so much fun playing house with him she tells him that their interaction is only casual.

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I think at the end of it, both characters had made the other one better. Both Tom and Summer hard learned from each other.

The audience feels more sympathy with Tom, because the pain he goes through is more obvious.

But they both learn lessons, and both come out better people for it. Summer learns that love is possible, and that's she ready for it. She meets a man and very soon is ready for marriage. Before she wasn't even ready to be somebody's girlfriend.

In Tom at the end, we see a man who is finally bold enough to leave a job he feels no passion for to follow something he has dreamed about. There is something more to his life than trying to chase after a woman he has obsessed about since the first time he saw her. When he meets Autumn at the interview, and asks her for a coffee she at first refuses, and he says; "Okay" and turns away before she changes her mind.

With Summer, he is in love with her since the second he knows her, which isn't real love at all. With Autumn, he's interested, but not obsessed. Instead of putting a woman on a pedestal and worshiping her since the second he met her, he's more ready for a real relationship.



Great post, agree with every bit of it.



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Before today I hadn't seen this movie since I was 18 or 19, and I remember thinking Summer was a cold-hearted bitch who led Tom on before ultimately trampling him. Watching it today 3-4 years later I actually empathized with Summer a lot more. I think she wanted Tom to step up and become an actual adult both in career (quit his deadbeat job) and with her (strap on a pair and ask her out). He didn't do either, but she hung around, probably hoping he'd change eventually. He didn't, so she ended it. I think my past issue with Summer had less to do with her character than the actress playing her (I really just can't stand Zooey Deschanel). But I think she was justified in pretty much everything up until she didn't clue Tom in that she was seeing someone. That was harsh.

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There is that kind of love that is so powerful that transforms you, it completely vanishes your ego and this aspect is hard to be presented in the movie.


Great! I agree, and I've been through the painful Tom experience 3 times.

In retrospect, this sort of love is really dangerous. You set yourself up for a huge fall. If the woman knows this about you, they almost always reject you. You're putting too much pressure on them. You're' making them responsible for your happiness.

Been there, done that.

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She says, she does not want to be anyone's gf but then she sends him notes and kisses him in the copy room.


People make out with, and even sleep with, people who are not their BF/GF.

She does not want to get married but cries in the movie theater at a wedding scene


Which is not an indication that someone wants to get married.

And invites Tom to her engagement party.


She changed her mind when she met someone she liked more. People do this all the time.

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...you got several things wrong. I.e. , Tom never became "selfish" and "possessive". Or Summer never lied to him (even partially, as you put it), about anything. What you basically missed is that Summer liked Tom much and wanted to give this a try - but it wasn't some huge crash that she had on him. And it simply took some months time for it to wear off and her to renounce it. In other words, there wasn't enough chemistry on her part, even though she did like/care lots for Tom.
Simple as that (happens ALL THE TIME in everyday life too), and there's no need to make it complicated...


Memory is a wonderful thing if you don't have to deal with the past

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I don't think relationships can be watered down to something as simple as chemistry. They are complicated. As Summer said: Life happens. Which I think was just her way of saying people's egos and their expectations of what the relationship should be, gets in the way. And that's what happened with Summer and Tom. Or at least, that' s the message I took from the movie. You can have chemistry with anything, if you stare at it long enough. I think it comes down to finding someone who is on the same page as you. Looks and even personality quirks can be overlooked if you have something bigger than life in common. For some, it's wanting to raise a kid together and for others it's a career or a faith or maybe just a promise of fidelity and love.

Wildcattin'...Wildcattin'. Pow! I'm gonna go.

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