MovieChat Forums > (500) Days of Summer (2009) Discussion > Anybody who has been in Summer's positio...

Anybody who has been in Summer's position could explain..?


WHY ?

I mean how, or why is it that you can "like", want, and care about someone, but not want a "relationship"?
I just don't get it.



Paul Avery: Someone should write a *beep* book, that's for sure.

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Seeit like this: You have a best friend, yeah? You really like him/her? Maybe there is/was some sexual tension between the two of you and maybe he/she wanted more of the relationship than you, but for you he/she is just...your best friend. That is what happened in the movie. And that is what Summer always said. Tom was seeing things which just were not there.

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"Baird? Go out there and be a star!"

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Tom was seeing things which just were not there.

But they WERE there. She made the first move at the copier. She made the second move in bed. She took him completely.

They had the same interest in music. They had the same disinterest in art. They were very compatible with each other.

I'm not saying she's bad or a slut or anything. Nothing of the sort. I want to live in that world where Zooey Deschanel makes a move on me. Multiple moves.

But that's kind of the point, actually. When it's Zooey Deschanel making the moves on you, how are you NOT supposed to fall in love? For this, she's bad in the sense of, yes, leading him on. I know, I know, she said all along, "Let's just be friends." But when there is an emotionally charged relationship, when it's clear, crystal clear that it's waaaay more than a friendship for him, then no, she's being bad, mean, wrong, whatever adjective you want to throw in there, when she keeps on leading him on after that point.

If she were a "nice" person, a "good" person, whatever adjective you want to throw in there, she would have just ended it at that point. It's not just about "being happy" as she said in the car. Relationships, particularly those that go on for more than just a couple of months, are much more than that.





I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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Dude, no. Look at the movie again. Especially the split screen segments. Realize what this is, what is shown to us and what we see with the split screens and why: The emotion all comes from Tom and not from Summer. There is something there, sure, but it is just things in common. Having the same taste in music or films or books or having the same opinion about stuff does not automatically make all people fall in love in that particular way. As i said: You don't asume your best friends wants to be with you romantically just because you share the same taste/moments/opinions/situations. And that is NOT leading on. Summer is not leading Tom on! I read that so often on this board. She shares a special time with him, yes, but she doesn't share the feelings he has. And she is very clear about it too. But Tom thinks given time it will turn her around but that just doesn't happen.
While this feels cruel to Tom and us as we watch him it's his own unrequited love that tortures him. It is tormenting to see him not realizing why she rejects him and why she invites him to her party. But that makes the ending so good because we get the sense that he finally realized it, yet it is bittersweet too because there is a big chance that he maybe will begin the cycle anew with Autumn.
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"Baird? Go out there and be a star!"

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The problem is, they weren't best friends. They weren't even friends - at all. They had literally just met for the first time that night before in the bar, when she first jumps him in the copy room the very next day, and not much later when she jumps him in bed.

And if you blow off all that, if you say, "Ah, that's just sex," then she absolutely DOES lead him on when she comes over and tells him she was wrong after the "we are a couple" blow up. If what you are saying is right, if there were no feelings there, then she shouldn't have come over. "Ah, well, Tom's being a possessive dick, that's not my problem." She MAKES it her problem by going over there. That is about as clear as mud.

The larger problem here is that she could see, she knew that Tom was falling for her huge, and only getting deeper and deeper. The decent person would end the relationship at that point, waaaay earlier than the 9 or 10 months it took for her to end this relationship. That makes her not a decent person, but a selfish one. "I'm getting my rocks off; who cares that this guy is going to be absolutely crushed."

Yes, they are both wrong in this situation - he, for not listening to what she was saying (although that can always be very ambiguous), and she for not responding to what she was clearly seeing and hearing. But he was emotionally f'd by that point. She wasn't and had the strength to be able to take a step back, take the long view of what was really going on, and END THE RELATIONSHIP. She didn't do that. That makes her the worse person here.




I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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I'm glad someone sees reason in this situation.
I'm sick of all this "friends with benefits" nonsense. If you become romantically involved with someone, the natural thing is to actually be together, in a serious way.
Looking for a relationship without the commitment is absurd.



Paul Avery: Someone should write a *beep* book, that's for sure.

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She wasn't and had the strength to be able to take a step back, take the long view of what was really going on, and END THE RELATIONSHIP. She didn't do that.


Tom was, right from the start of the movie, the one who ignored the long view of what they had. It's like his sister told him "You're just afraid of getting an answer you don't want." Heck, even when he got the answer he didn't want, he lied to himself.

When Summer asks him outside the bar if he likes her as friends, is he honest with her? No.

When Summer tells him in IKEA she's not looking for anything really serious, and she just wants to keep it casual, and is he okay with that, does he tell her the truth, that he would actually like a relationship? No.

When they're in the car and he asks her where they're going, and she gives him an evasive non-answer, does he press her on it? Does he explain his true feelings? No

After their fight, Tom literally says to her: "I need to know you're not going to wake up and feel different" and Summer responds: "I can't give you that." Does he say "Well, if you can't give me what I need, then I can't be in this relationship"? No.

We know right from the start that Tom believes in love, wants to be in a committed relationship, and thinks Summer is the one. And yet, he never tells her that.

From their very first serious interactions together, it was clear that the two of them were not even close to being on the same page with what they wanted. That neither of them initiated the conversation about that makes them both at fault, but Tom's inability to see the end coming was his own fault.

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If Zooey Deschanel, or her look-alike, asked YOU any of these questions, with the answer "no" having the potential to immediately terminate the relationship, who would answer any of those questions honestly? Especially who would answer honestly when he was already in, hook, line, and sinker, and worse, was sunk.

There was no way Tom could back off of this relationship. He did not have the strength to. Like I said, she is coming from a clearer place, a place of less emotional attachment. Or, in fact, no emotional attachment.

You keep on coming back to fault, but that's not my point at all. My point is, between the two people involved in this relationship, there is one person who is in a clearer emotional position to assess the health of the relationship and to take steps to do something about that. That person certainly wasn't Tom.

When he asks her, what are we?, that is a humongous signal to her to stop, assess, and if need be, stop the relationship immediately. And it need be, all right. That's my point.

All of these warning signs you point to show that 1) Tom is incapable of making the decision to end the relationship and get out, and 2) Summer is perfectly capable of seeing what was going on much more clearly and making the decision to end the relationship to spare Tom enormously hurt feelings. Her not doing so, her not pursuing all these warning signs, or more to the point, ANY of these warning signs, makes her the jerk here for continuing in a relationship that was clearly not the one she said she wanted to be in at the start of the relationship.

Put another way, of the two of them, she is the one in the relationship who isn't clouded by "love." Tom was emotionally incapable of being truthful in this relationship, because it's Zooey-f@cking-Deschanel. Even granting every single thing you said, that Tom was completely at fault here, and that Summer bore none of the fault, that only conclusively proves that Summer is the only adult left standing, and that she should be the one to act and end the relationship, and end it immediately, to spare Tom's VERY OBVIOUS feelings. She sees every single one of these red flags and does nothing, because she's getting some. That's pretty sh!tty.




I want the doctor to take your picture so I can look at you from inside as well.

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I think we all agree Summer has more control over Tom's feelings than vice versa; the one who loves less (or not at all) always does. But that doesn't mean the other party, the "victim," so to speak, has no responsibility. If you want to use that argument, everyone should learn to grow a pair, step up, and take responsibility. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness. The problem is, not everyone has the force of character and maturity that's necessary to face the truth so decisively. That doesn't make them a bad person. We all have our vices, our weaknesses, situations in our past that we could have handled better, but didn't. Neither Tom nor Summer had the initiative to deal with their differences, and they paid the price for it.

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If Zooey Deschanel, or her look-alike, asked YOU any of these questions, with the answer "no" having the potential to immediately terminate the relationship, who would answer any of those questions honestly?


If you're not honest with a person you are/want to be in a relationship with, that's an issue with you, not them.

And to answer your question, yes, I would, and have. I don't regret it, because those aren't relationships worth being in long term. They don't end well most of the time (unsurprisingly, neither did this one.) But, if you choose to stay in a relationship (of any kind) where the other person tells you they can't give you what they want, well, don't be surprised if it doesn't work out how you want.

All of these warning signs you point to show that...Summer is perfectly capable of seeing what was going on much more clearly and making the decision to end the relationship to spare Tom enormously hurt feelings...She sees every single one of these red flags and does nothing, because she's getting some.


But here's the problem: Tom lied to her, repeatedly, in response to direct, straightforward questions about what he wanted.

Look, I'm not saying Summer couldn't and shouldn't have pressed him a bit more. In my mind, they're both at fault for not just sitting down like adults and having a conversation about the status of their relationship. (I always found it incredibly telling that they're sitting at the kids' table at Millie's wedding) The scene at Tom's apartment after the fight is a perfect example. Both of them should have realized they were wrong for each other at that point

My point is, between the two people involved in this relationship, there is one person who is in a clearer emotional position to assess the health of the relationship and to take steps to do something about that. That person certainly wasn't Tom.


I kind of get what you're saying. We've all had times where emotion overwhelmed logic. And, to reiterate, I agree that both of them had clear indications that the relationship wasn't going to work and should be ended

But Tom is an adult. He's got a responsibility to take care of his own emotional health in any relationship. His inability to do so is not Summer's fault. Adults shouldn't get into a situation (romantic or otherwise) involving someone else, and then essentially say "Well, I'm in no state to examine this situation rationally and figure it out, so it's all on you." You're right that Tom was probably too distracted by thinking Summer was the one to act in an appropriate manner, but that's a problem with his character, not hers.

She sees every single one of these red flags and does nothing, because she's getting some. That's pretty sh!tty


I don't disagree that Summer ignored things about their relationship. But Tom ignores red flags and does nothing as well. Why is his decision to do so any more noble than hers? Because he believes in true love and she doesn't (or didn't)?


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I use to date this guy we was happy end everything, we went to mini breaks, concerts, cinema etc. That went on for few years, I was enjoying he's company then one day we was shopping together and he said something like, I'm thinking we can get married next year...I was absolutely gob smacked, I never thought about that the idea of marriage gave me an anxiety attack, i couldn't even imaging myself married to him. Don't get me wrong I cared and I was comfortable but a no point I thought we were more then that and I thought it was mutual as we never talked about the future. I broke up with him after a while and I left town. I met the guy that was going to be my husband and within 6 months I knew I wanted to spend my life with him.m

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Then you're just as bad as Summer was in the film. The guy you dumped is probably still out there, with no answers, wondering why you left him.

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Its obvious isnt it?the ending kinda gives it
`what i was never about you`

I really dont like the idea `the one` like Tom said in the beginnings, but, yea, woman always use that excuse too often

Please dont often lead men to think that way if you`re not gonna married him, it really hurts men

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I think people keep forgetting the key introduction to Summer: as a child, crushed by her parent's divorce, cutting off her hair, and feeling nothing. It seemed like this was a huge clue for summer's perspective. the whole time she's with Tom, she likes him, she has fun with him, she wants to be friends, but she's not really feeling anything, like Tom's feeling. Not feeling is a pattern in her life, maybe a scar from childhood trauma. she talks about how she dated people, and just sort of moved on. She says she's never felt love and doesn't believe in it. a relationship is a heavy commitment for someone who is not in love, and like she says it hurts people, so she avoids it now. that's why friends with benefits makes more sense for her.

It seems like the whole time she's with Tom, maybe she's wants to like him more than she does. I think that's why she leads him on. she is trying to make it work, and trying to keep him around and get herself to fall for him. kissing, holding hands, sex, all ways to try and spark something inside of her. after all he's a nice guy and they have a lot in common. but something is missing, and sometimes he really puts her off. a relationship is actually a bad idea with someone who you don't feel a lot for besides friendship and care.

personally i'm a lot more like Tom. I fell in love quickly and hard. but i can understand how summer has mixed feelings, that's why she sends mixed signals.

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