"Torture porn " is not a legitimate sub genre. Come on man. If you were to go into a DVD store-or hell/ even if you were shopping for dvds online- a genre section will not be labeled "torture porn". Horror, thriller, crime, etc. blockbuster did not have a torture porn section.
Of course not. In the video store I grew up in, genre sections were limited to, IIRC: cartoon, adventure, comedy, drama, action, thriller, horror, erotic, porn.
If you go to a cd shop there's no "newschool ragga-jungle", there's no "ambient drone postmetal/noise" section. There's classical, rock, pop, blues, electronic.
These genre subsections are created to let the clients find what they are looking for as quickly as possible. Hundreds of (obscure) subgenre sections are not helpful. Which is no proof these subgenres do not exist.
it's semantics tho. Pointless thing to argue over.
Then why do you? :)
I already agreed with you there's no objective way to precisely define genres. So:
it might not horror TO YOU
that was kind of my point.
The point of my initial post was to demonstrate Knoxfan that it can be valid to label this movie as torture porn, since the topic starter was not doing a great job there. I still stand by that.
And at the danger of getting sidetracked here:
The Exorcist - horror
The Shining - horror
Texas Chainsaw Massacre - horror
Psycho - thriller
Martyrs - haven't seen
I didn't say horror needs to be supernatural per se, but needs to have monsters. Leatherface is hardly human. In Eden Lake, they make it a point to humanise those responsible for the violence. ("Normal" kids are capable of this, so it could happen to you!) While traditionally, in horror movies the bad guy gets dehumanised (Halloween, Friday the 13th, etc), even often wears a mask to further dehumanise him, so he "becomes" a monster.
The traits you listed could be applied to multiple genres.
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Don_Cheech
8 years ago
It seems like you're making up your own rules for classifying films. That's fine. But I wouldn't expect the rest of the world to agree with you. The world knows Psycho as a horror film. It says it's a horror on WIKIPEDIA, imdb, Rotten tomoatoes. It's placed on every "greatest horror films" list.
So do you know better than them? Do you know more about genres than the people that CREATED Eden Lake? They have literally labeled their own film as a horror. All of the reviews label is as a horror film. It WON several awards for BEST HORROR OF THE YEAR. The film was labeled as a slasher, a "hoodie horror"... but no... nobody said torture porn.
Yes. I do not enjoy arguing semantics.. obviously...but when you say things like "by the way ..I don't even view this as a horror film". It's just not accurate. I think it's a good thing for someone to correct you on this. Consider it constructive criticism. Im not trying to educate you in a condescending way. Just sharing common knowledge.
What I can gather from your comments is that you believe "torture porn" is a legitamite sub genre that is not limited to Horror. You have labeled Eden Lake as a film in "thriller / torture porn" genre.
Let me ask you: what insitutions/ film circles label films under the genre of "torture porn"?
Every magazine, website, and store I go to - does not use that term. It's really only mentioned in forums like this- where a person is trying to downplay a film - suggesting it really has no narrative motive - besides human suffering. There is much more to "Eden Lake" than simply torture and human suffering. It's about how these types of events (which have factually occurred- yep- 3 guys 1 hammer)- end up happening in the first place. In a way- it's a character study of Brett- the main antagonist. The abused, psychotic teenager. The ending of the film isn't just human suffering. We see Brett's family is just as bad as him- and it completely explains his behavior. It does have a message. And in my opinion, a powerful- intelligent- and important one. Even though the ending was blunt and dissappointing- it was real- and really drove the point home.
As the other commenters have said.. casino royal, marathon man, the fast and the furious, spectre, body of lies- These films are not considered "torture porn" just because they have realistic scenes of torture. See what I'm saying?
Again, at its core- this film has more characteristics of a horror film than anything else. Which is why it is a self proclaimed Horror film. It is true- thrillers/ horrors/ Sci fi - can often be one in the same. Like THE THING- my favorite movie. So while you're correct in saying it's a thriller - you're wrong in saying it's NOT a horror. Because it's really both. Torture porn has a negative connation to it- insinuating that whoever likes the film is a sadist- and is getting off on torture- hence the term torture-porn. So you shouldn't be surprised if people are coming at you for labeling it that. Apparently, films like Saw and Hostel are officially placed under the splatter sub genre- when they are undoubtedly what people would call "torture porn".
The article below states "Splatter Movies: Although there is often very little distinction between splatter/gore and slasher movies, the former is usually categorized by having an even greater focus on the graphic portrayals of character deaths and mutilations through the use of special effects. (Braindead, Saw, I Spit on Your Grave)"
Article above is where The New York film academy did a whole article on sub genres. Here it is:
https://www.nyfa.edu/student-resources/ultimate-list-of-film-sub-genres/
As you can see- there is no "torture porn". Knox was accurate with his info on the "splatter genre". Every legitamite source I can find agrees with this notion. I am open to be enlightened by legit sources. I'm just trying to provide insight here. I don't know how you came to this conclusion, but again- I understand where you're coming from.
Before I stop typing - just want to remind you that in real life I avoid using sub genres at all. I will just say horror- thriller- comedy- action- anime- foreign. For music- I think the sub genres you listed are a bit over the top... super specific. Say I want to listen to sublime... do I really expect to see a sub genre on iTunes listed as "west coast jam rock reggae punk ska". No. that's unrealistic and unnecessary. Pieces of entertainment are not limited to specific genres. But it is important to acknowledge the foundational genre that piece of entertainment was influenced by- due to the fact is usually key to accurately assessing that piece of entertainment - be it a movie , album, or book. It doesn't have to be either or.
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robbevl-1
8 years ago
It seems like you're making up your own rules for classifying films. That's fine.
I do. So does everybody else.
It seems we're talking in circles. My point is there's no central authority, no International Standards Organisation, that defines movie genres.
You keep trying to come up with authoritative sources, like video rental places, wikipedia, imdb genre listings, movie review websites, and a paper by some film school student. If this guy is an authoritative source, why aren't I? I graduated from filmschool. Does that make me an authority? Of course not.
These will never convince me. Because I don't believe one (or all) of these sources has the authority to define these genres once and for all.
where a person is trying to downplay a film - suggesting it really has no narrative motive - besides human suffering.
Yes that's exactly what I'm suggesting. But I wouldn't call it downplaying the film. A movie about human suffering can have merit. It's just not for me.
You don't agree about Eden Lake's central narative, that's fine. One can debate about the themes and narrative of this movie. I elaborated on it in another post below. In any case I think it's a stretch to call this movie a character study. It's clear where the focus is. And it's not on Brett.
These films are not considered "torture porn" just because they have realistic scenes of torture.
I'm not saying that. I'm calling it torture porn because it was the main theme of the movie. Plenty of movies have realistic scenes of torture.
You make the point that movies can have multiple genres. I agree. Genres are an artificial construct to make it easier to find what you're looking for. Sometimes films fall between the boundaries - just as music does. I think I've said this a few times already. Can't see why this is relevant?
Also, you say the term torture porn has a derogatory connotation, then you proceed to calling Hostel and Saw "undoubtedly" just that.
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Don_Cheech
8 years ago
...who said I like Saw and Hostel? I think they were pretty average. I would criticize those films for being torture porn perhaps/ but you wouldn't find me classifying it under a "torture porn" genre/ because that's not accurate. Seems like you're living in your own world.
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robbevl-1
8 years ago
The issue was with the word "undoubtably".
Seems like you're living in your own world.
Not more than you do. You think you're idea about horror is the "official" one that the whole world agrees upon, and my idea about horror is "living in my own world"? You don't think that's pretentious?
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