What's with the effing repetition? What's with the effing repetition? - Redbelt (2008) Discussion

[–] MikeMaringka 17 years ago

SERIOUSLY! I watched this movie a few weeks ago and besides the ho dum plot and the "more is more" acting mentality shared by most of the cast the thing that most irritated me was the repition they felt was necessary to underscore strong emotions. The scene with the dead cops widow and mike terry's (verbal) confrontation with the corrupt fighter pre-climax stands out the most in my mind.

I wish i had the script so i could illustrate this better with some examples. I have a great memory but it just goes flush when confronted with so much *beep*

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[–] cmitchell016 17 years ago

seriously, i was about to write the same freakin thing...
seriously, i was about to write the same freakin thing...
seriously... i was about to write the same freakin thing...

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[–] Virgil_Hawkins 17 years ago

The effin repetition, yes.

Don't tell me what I can't do!

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[–] Capolan2003 17 years ago

funny way to make your point. I giggled.

the repetition is very typical David Mamet dialogue and patter and meter. Everything that David Mamet writes has this going for it, and is easily shown in essentially every film he's involved with. Another method he uses quite a bit is multiple people talking simultaneously - all asking for something. What ends up happening is confusion in the sceene, and it creates a sense of anxiety (in Redbelt this happens with the "window" sceene, and with phones quite a bit -- phones also being used to remove clarity and distance the main characters in Mamet's "OLEANNA") here - these are some examples from the top of my head (I'm a huge fan of mamet, but I also recongnize he's not for everyone)

THE FILM: RONIN:
Deneiro: Draw it again
Bean: whaaa, I don't like you're,
Denerio: Its a simple diagram draw it again. DRAW IT AGAIN!

Other sceene:

Deneiro: Where did he get the case made?
Reno: The case made...where did he get the case made...
Deneiro: he didn't have time to get the case made.
Reno: He didn't have time to get the case made. He. Didn't. Have Time. To get the case made, so where did he get the case..

This kind of repatition is common in mamet films such as:

Glenngary Glennross (glenngary it's so common that my friends and I have a drinking game to it. anytime any one says the word "leads" you drink. You'll be comatose 3/4 through the film)
Spartan
Wag The Dog
House of Games
The Edge
State and Main
The Spanish Prisoner
American Buffalo
Heist

He often will subdue this dialogue method for some films, as shown in "The Untouchables", "The Verdict", and "Postman always rings twice" not to mention "The Windslow Boy".

This dialogue even shows itself in Mamet's TV piece - "The Unit".

If the actor isn't ready to deliver these kind of lines, they can come out very stilted and painful to hear. In Redbelt MOST! of the people in the film are "mamet regulars" used in many of his movies and productions (quite a few people in Redbelt are regulars even on the tv program "The Unit") Some actors are just very good at delivering lines (Devito in HEIST was incredible, over the top and great)

A list of his Regulars in the film.

Joe the cop: Plays Max gehrhardt special forces - Delta on "The unit"
Snowflake: was in a recent unit episode as a supporting character
Tim allen's wife: Thats actually Mamet's wife in real life
Slimy fight promotor: that is one of mamets friends and favorites for movies
Assistant to Tim allens character: that is joe montenga who is in almost everything mamet has ever produced - all the way back to "house of games"
Producer that interupts at dinner: Ed O'neil - Mamet has started useing him for quite a few things. He was in "Spartan" as well as a supporting character on a episode of "the unit"
2nd anchor for fight information: He's in numerous mamet films, and also in "The Unit"
Main anchor: - that is randy couture. He was the main supporting character in 2 episodes of "the unit" and is a famous MMA fighter

Here's a good one: when they are all lined up getting fight instructions - there is a older guy with a longer beard in the fighter line up. That guy is actually David Mamet's Rabbi. He's in Spartan as a special forces supporting character as well....

There are even more in Redbelt, but I think you get the idea.

A friend of mine and I use to imagine situations where mamet-esque dialogue would be rediculous...

Actor 1: And jesus...jesus..you haven't even taken out the garbage!
Actor 2: Now you wait, you just wait take out the garbage?
Actor 1: Take out the garbage. TAKE OUT THE GARBAGE
Actor 2: You want me, me -- you want me to take
Actor 1: That's right
Actor 2: take out the garbage
Actor 1: That's right, You, I want you
Actor 2: To take out the garbage. The garbage. take it out?
Actor 1: yes, please. Some say that there is nothing more noble than pursueing a dream.
Actor 2: Pardon, a dream, a F@@@in dream?
Actor 1: My dream - you taking out the garbage

and so on.

thats the style. it seems to really bother some people, but its in all his projects in one way or another.

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[–] TitoVicandJoey 17 years ago

Capolan2003 that was a realy good explanation, I was impressed. By the explanation, it was realy good. Impressive. Explanation. good. realy. That was.

Remember, use the magic twig wisely

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[–] ikoogle 17 years ago

Capolan2003 that was a realy good explanation, I was impressed. By the explanation, it was realy good. Impressive. Explanation. good. realy. That was.

yup I agree

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[–] kmjf 17 years ago

That taking out the garbage bit is hilarious. You should write a whole spoof script in the Mamet style, it would be great.

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[–] DeAd_MiKe_187 17 years ago

LOL Capolan2003, that was hilarious. That kind of dialogue is good when you mean it as a joke, but sometimes, Mamet goes overboard.

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[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] JReb865 16 years ago

It's a Jew-talian thing. Scorsese does it a lot, too. A lot. "What a .45 will do to a woman's *****, that you should see."

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[–] fazaljuman 17 years ago

I agree it was very annoying and spoilt a good movie for me. I had a feeling it had to do with the director's style. It just seemed in most of the cases he could have gotten away without the whole repeating thing.

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[–] tava0009 16 years ago

Yeah, a very good explantion.

I liked the dialogue in the movie with one exception (maybe two):

The first interaction between Terry and Joe's wife outside the school almost gave me an anxiety attack...."I thought you were going to the mountains? Club, Mountains, tell him something, mountains? club? not at the club? mountains..." Seriously, I did not know what was going on and I thought I was going crazy for a second.

Second, the wife (again) just after Joe's suicide. It wasn't the dialogue here so much as the totally failed acting job. She struggled through those lines; there was no feeling or realism at all.

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[–] sistinas_ 16 years ago

I have to admit from nearly the beginning I was like, what is with the repeating of the lines? I didn't know this was a David Mamet thing, but it really stood out here and just made it seem like some kind of high school production where nobody could really act (just my perception). In the opening scene where Mike Terry is directing Joe the cop in his fights, I suppose it is acceptable ("You know the escape. You know the escape. You know the escape."). But used throughout the movie over and over and over again was distracting. Some people may repeat themselves a lot in real life, but when most of the characters are made to do it, it just seems like lazy/poor writing, like some kind of amateurish attempt at higher drama. Sorry if I just don't get the David Mamet method of film.

"If you want name-brand candy, my fist is packed with peanuts."

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[–] Capolan2003 16 years ago

The wife - thats Shawn Ryan's wife in real life (wow, that rhymed)

yes, the mountains - another thing david mamet does a lot is have a yes and a no next to each other. people answering 2 questions simultaneously. sometimes it works sometimes not so much. The thing I find interesting about this is that in times of stress people start behaving like this, words come out of their mouths but it doesn't match the thought in their head. Have you ever been in a conversation with someone who is concentrating on something else? -- that is how most mamet dialogue seems to flow. lots of "whats?" and delayed responses. you get "yes, I mean no" too. Great practical example - you're in the car and you are concentrating really hard to find an address and the person next to you is having a conversation with you that is completely foreign to the situation. sometimes you'll get "are you even listening to me?" because the responses provided often don't make that much sense.

my favorite parts of mamet conversations are the little "quips" that people speak volumes within. these little quips say so much about their person so quickly I find them fascinating. Heist has too many of them, and it gets rediculous but they're still fun to listen to. here are some examples;

Heist:
Devito: How you doin' Bobby?
Lindo: I think you're lookin' at it.

Jay: Great day for the race
Bodyguard guy: what race?
Jay: The human race. Kids growing up and so on.

Rockwell: You're not a happy camper are you?
Pidgeon: I'm not a camper at all, pour it stud
Security lady: Careful baby that stuff will rot your stomach lining
Pidgeon: Yeah, but I get to drink it first

Spartan:
junior agent: I just want to say it was a pleasure to meet you sir
Kilmer: meet me? You haven't met me, you've been sightseeing. If I wanted commradery I'd join the masons - you're just the mission.

Navy Seal: nice knife where'd ya get it?
Kilmer: I got it from an east german fellow.
Navy seal: He gave it to you?
Kilmer: From what I remember he was reluctant to part with it.

Ronin:
Bean: Are you worried about saving your own skin?
Deniro: Yes I am, it covers my body.

there are SOOOO many more, and I could keep typing all of them because sadly they are all in my head somewhere. (recently a friend of mine during a job interview actually used a mamet line from "the unit" to great success)

if there is one you are curious about, just ask.

also - and this is the part that gets people fairly often - some of the conversations are so steeped in back history with the characters that he doesn't let you in on the knowledge they each have about the other. Mamet in fact talks directly to this point in the commentary on Redbelt - specifically to the part where Mike terry "knife fights" with the stunt coreographer (who is boxing legend Ray "boom boom" mancini" by the way.)

The lines when Joe kills himself are very stilted and honestly - I felt she would be far more upset and grieving rather than being "practical". She just found her husband dead - unless...there was no love lost between them.

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[–] Havoac 16 years ago

I think everyone was good at handling the Mamet dialogue save Alice Brage who came off as a stuttering, confused woman.

" Let the Wheel go Mike, sometimes you have to let the wheel go. Let the WHeel Go Mİke! LET THE WHEEL GO! Let the wheel go. Ok? Let the wheel - "

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[–] youaresquishy 16 years ago

The repetition is a David Mamet hallmark. You get used to it if you watch more Mamet movies and plays. Believe it or not, it becomes endearing.

I believe one of its functions is to operate as a clue to the viewer that you are not to expect this film to be all that close to reality.

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[–] Kitnerboy_Redoubt 16 years ago

It's Mamet's trademark in his plays and films, and it has gotten very old. He needs to ditch it and focus more on natural acting and dialogue. The Verdict is a great example of a terrific script he wrote but without his usual pretension.

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[–] theronstevenson 16 years ago

Mamet does this all the time. When an actor delivers the lines well, it sounds natural and you don't notice it so much. I initially thought that this meant it was really good, complex dialogue that some actors couldn't manage. But then I realized that he directs, so he should be able to get the delivery he wants - but it still comes off sounding really unnatural much of the time. Especially when his wife, Rebecca Pidgeon, delivers the lines. She has a great singing voice, but I wish he'd leave her out of the films.

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