MovieChat Forums > Generation Kill (2008) Discussion > Surely marines aren't this stupid???

Surely marines aren't this stupid???

posted 12 years ago by shewasmyrushmore
15 replies | jump to latest

okay i have a question.

in the first few scenes they are conducting a last training exercise in kuwait - in the rundown afterwards, lt fick has a bunch of rocks in a line (just in case any of the team leaders are soooo moronic that they can't remember what 6 humvees driving in a straight line looks like).

he tells them they went wrong because they slowed their vehicles when one of the drivers 'died'. so sgt(? i think) colbert suggests the nearest vehicle goes to check on the situation while they others provide fire cover. fick looks like he's considering the suggestion for the first time ever. they even move one of the rocks over to the 'dead' driver so everyone understands what he's saying. they ALL look like 'wow - that's a great idea there brad! maybe we should consider that!!!' - and fick says yeah sure that would work, so long as you don't let emotions take over..............end of rundown, they all go separate ways.
so are they trying to say that in the history of the training of the marine corps, not ONE person has ever suggested, or not ONCE have they every tried, this magical idea of one vehicle checking on the situation. FOR *beep* SAKE IIIIII would have suggested that, and i'm a girl who's never even touched a gun in my life, let alone know a thing about war combat.

i don't know, the whole scene just really sticks out to me - i don't know if that one is also based on reality, or if they just stuck whatever in there to show they did last training in kuwait.

that's all - my only beef in what was a fascinating, interesting, amazing piece of television, and only the second tv show in my entire life which i have turned around the second i finished the final show and began watching in its entirety from the beginning again. i can't believe some of the characters were portrayed in that way! they must be fuming....

[–] filmbroad 12 years ago

Hey Shewasmyrushmore,

I should state that I'm female as well and the same things that you mentioned in this post went through my mind as well. I would have thought that providing cover fire would have been standard operating procedure while the other soldiers go check out the situation.

Perhaps, I watch too many action movies but I think in that situation that the soldiers in the truck with the dead driver should also provide cover fire, while someone moves him out of the driver's seat.

"Although I'm not a great romancer, your call I'm bound to answer, when you propose ..."

[–] jackfrusciante80 12 years ago

You have to remember, it was the first time that this particular marine unit was being used to invade a country. They were usually used as a behind the scenes recon unit, and all of a sudden, they have to drive humvees across the desert. Not the same as stealth tactics.

Either way, they have marine advisors on hand for the show, so I am sure they knew what they were doing. The producers weren't making this stuff up as they went along.

[–] BSebrask 12 years ago

I always felt this scene was really meant more to show how beholden they were as a unit to the established SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures). As well as to show just how stupid some of the SOP's could be. What Colbert suggests is a good idea and an obvious one, but Lt. Fick has orders to keep to the SOP.

I think this scene was just setting up some of the bureuacratic idiocy we would see as the series went on. Just my take anyway.

[–] njkuvaas 12 years ago

It might also act as introduction for viewers into how they operate.

Click on it. You know you want to.
http://tinyurl.com/co6unk8

[–] shewasmyrushmore 11 years ago

thanks for answers everyone - all make sense!

[–] Thunder38843 11 years ago

There were no Soldiers in the truck with the "dead" driver!

[–] Thanato26 11 years ago

There is a term in the Military known as Rocdrill, which is exactly what is played out. It shows visually what either happened or will happen with Rocks, sticks, army men, lago, or what ever. You do rocdrill even if you've done this hundreds of times, its part of the job.

This unit was meant for small recce missions, it was not meant for mounted operations at the platoon and company level. That is why this is like that, considering it was also stated that many of the people hadnt fired the crew serve weapons.

[–] MightyTiki 10 years ago

There is a term in the Military known as Rocdrill, which is exactly what is played out. It shows visually what either happened or will happen with Rocks, sticks, army men, lago, or what ever. You do rocdrill even if you've done this hundreds of times, its part of the job.

This unit was meant for small recce missions, it was not meant for mounted operations at the platoon and company level. That is why this is like that, considering it was also stated that many of the people hadnt fired the crew serve weapons.

The Rehearsal of Concept drill, commonly referred to as a "ROC drill" is a tool that commander's use to execute complex events in the United States Army.

Marines do not conduct ROC drills.

This drill is generally used for strategic planning at higher level strategic commands (Colonel and above) that do not involve TO&E (Tables of Organization and Equipment) units but rather TD&A (Tables of Distribution and Allowances) units.

This term is not the same as a "rock drill" which is used by tactical leaders during the rehearsal and planning phase of operations.

Example of a rock drill: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Flickr_-_The_U.S._Army_-_convoy_rock_drill.jpg

(Source: Served in the U.S. Army downrange in both Afghanistan and Iraq over 54-months on five separate tours from 2002-2010.)

"Toto, I've [got] a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."

[–] MattWalk 11 years ago

I agree, it does seem like a really simple suggestion. Some thoughts though -

- Translating real life into a tv show or movie inevitably results in some simplification. I doubt that applies to this scene in particular but it's something to keep in mind.

- One of the themes of the show is that many marines are not that smart, information doesn't get where it needs to go, and the importance of rules and procedure for combat effectiveness as well as how rules, procedure and chain of command can mess things up.

- Recon marines don't normally travel in a bunch of humvees so this is the first time they were doing it.

- They were practicing in the middle of the desert but were preparing for any number of environments. In a city if one humvee goes down an alley, or crashes into a wall... who knows. If that humvee is already dead is it worth it to have more marines stay out in the line of fire just to check on them? How do you weigh those kinds of risks?

If you liked this show that much I would highly recommend The Wire. A lot of the same themes in very different circumstances.

[–] shewasmyrushmore 11 years ago

If you liked this show that much I would highly recommend The Wire. A lot of the same themes in very different circumstances.

thanks - but i watched 'generation kill' because it was made by The Wire folk!! and then Treme to follow.
they make everything else look like rubbish.

[–] Filmbrewer 10 years ago

hey Rushmore,

I just started reading the book a couple of days ago and I remember having the same *wtf* moment when watching this part.

What I got from the book, and what this scene was trying to convey (and failed to communicate), was that this was the actual first humvee training this platoon had received in humvee training. And this was two weeks prior to the invasion.

The 'Devil Dogs' were all highly trained recon marines that have spent years training for scenarios that were the exact opposite of what they were about to go into in the war. The 'Godfather' general knew this when he selected them specifically and with the plans to rush them through the most hostile and rugged regions of the invasion. Why he chose a group not trained for what he wanted is unknown to everyone but that madman. Of course he chose them because of their skill and then threw them in some last minute training for what was looking like a suicide mission.

That general had a blitzkrieg, shock and awe philosophy of war and to his style of combat--rush a small elite company through all the hot spots and then rush Baghdad--rather than taking the time to capture each city and hotspot to secure transport, munition and supply lines, instead he left it to the bulk of the forces following behind to secure the towns, villages and ambush points. It's a risky way approach war and far from conventional methods normally used (like using the recon team to gather intelligence on every spot or ambush they're about to encounter to find a tactical way to neutralize threats and secure your supply lines). If they were fighting a more competent army, they would be leaving their flank and supply lines vunerable and could have easily been cut off from the main forces.

So it's not that this type of training and ideas had never been done or these guys are complete incompetent morons (granted some of them are), the general just chose unqualified men for that humvee assault company. I guess the general just wanted to make a name for himself...

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] shewasmyrushmore 10 years ago

thanks for the info!!

[–] brightmidnight71 10 years ago

The part that struck me as goofy was the chow scene in the first episode when the one guy is wearing a boonie hat and everyone else is in watch caps. Dude comes over to him and berates him for not looking like everyone else...and just magically produces a spare watch cap from his back pocket while there's one on his own head. It's not like he even has a pack or web gear or anything with him where it could have been stashed. Why the hell would he have a spare watch cap stuck in his back pocket? "I got your six, bro." So goofy.

[–] Marmadukebagelhole 9 years ago

and fick says yeah sure that would work, so long as you don't let emotions take over..............end of rundown, they all go separate ways.
so are they trying to say that in the history of the training of the marine corps, not ONE person has ever suggested, or not ONCE have they every tried, this magical idea of one vehicle checking on the situation. FOR *beep* SAKE IIIIII would have suggested that, and i'm a girl who's never even touched a gun in my life, let alone know a thing about war combat.

Calm down dear. The recon Marines did not ride atop Humvees prior to the Iraqi invasion. They were training becauese this was tactically unfamiliar to them and they are dilligent enought to play out whatever scenarios they think the might encounter in combat. They don't just wing it.

The LT was critical for the entire platoon slowing because one occupant in one vehichle was hit.

He was clearly trying to prompt one of his men to propose a tactical solution, one which also illustrates the USMC's "leave no marine behind" ethos.

Glasgow's FOREMOST authority Italics = irony. Infer the opposite please.