The f-word was prevalent in America for quite a while before the setting of this film. It's exact use and frequency have changed, of course, but from what my grandparents have told me, people were simply far more strict about when and where they used such language. My grandfather said he'd never said the word around women or family if he could help it, but that when it was men in a bar, or around the fire at deer camp, or wen he was in the Army, they'd curse a lot. That's where the saying "Curse like a sailor" comes from.
People were just better about keeping it separate from their daily interactions. This was aided by having what we'd consider goofy sounding stand-ins for curse words used in general public. You also have to understand, in most of the country, back then, women weren't even allowed to enter places like barrooms, partly for this reason.
But rough men in rough businesses like those in BE would curse a good amount and wouldn't have such a separation. If you notice, Nucky rarely curses around Margaret, even in private when he's angry, or around other non-whore women.
I think it was about accurate.
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brutuslignarius
8 years ago
Guys Jimmy's age, yes, definitely.
Nucky lived his whole young life in the 1800s. I believe it'd be used alot, but not in any other form except talking about sex. It was a verb only.
When the Commodore says "Henry f-ing Ford". Too old for that use of the word in that context. It would be accurate if Jimmy said it though.
Lucy says "F-ing, Eddie, we were f-ing", that is accurate. For both her age and guys Commodore's age.
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amodestproposal
8 years ago
Eh...your logic is sound but your dates are off....
"Farmer and Henley's 1893 dictionary of slang notes both the adverbial and adjectival forms of *beep* as similar to but "more violent" than bloody and indicating extreme insult, respectively."
If it made it into a dictionary of slang in 1893, and you have to remember publishing moved MUCH slower then, then you have to assume such uses of the word were becoming common in actual street slang for years before that---meaning that both the Commodore and Nucky's generations would be very familiar with most basic forms of the word.
Furthermore:
"Though it appeared in English lexicographer John Ash's 1775 A New and Complete Dictionary, listed as "low" and "vulgar," and appearing with several definitions,[19] *beep* did not appear in any widely consulted dictionary of the English language from 1795 to 1965. Its first appearance in the Oxford English Dictionary (along with the word *beep* was in 1972.[20]"
"The modern usage and flexibility of *beep* was established by the mid to late 19th century, and has been fairly stable since."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*beep*#Early_usage
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brutuslignarius
8 years ago
I was not aware of the 1893 dictionary. Did not find that in my research.
I do know that a woman in 1895 was charged for public obscenity in New York City for yelling "Go f--k yourselves", to a group of women, which is consistent with its verbial usage, as opposed to the modern "F--k you".
I am not surprised by the 1775 dictionary. But I wonder if it was just listed as a crude word for sex, especially with prostitutes.
I know the word has been around since the 1500s, if not before.
I still wonder why there were zero f-words in the 1800s episodes of this show. Why would Commodore talk differently as an old man in 1920 than he did as a young man in 1884?
My guestimate is that around 1900, the modern f-word slang was used mostly in East London, and probably Lower Manhattan, but was still virtually unused in its modern sense in the farm towns, until the doughboys came back from France in 1919, where there was mingling between rural Americans and urban British.
Another thing, the British have been using the words bugger and sod (short for sodomite) since at least the 1700s. I wonder if bugger is just a minced oath for the f-word or if it comes from somewhere else.
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sanookdee
8 years ago
my grandfather, who was born in the 1890s, told me (when I was young), he never heard that word until he was in the army during WW1 and more common among soldiers from New York (many being immigrants or the sons of immigrants)than anywhere else. After the war was over, it was rarely used and never in mixed company. My own father said he did not hear it used much until he was in the army in 1944. But, my family was southern and the rules about etiquette were stricter in the south. I did not hear it used much myself until I was a soldier 45 years ago and, again, it was more widely used by New Yorker's than anyone else. Being as the show is set in New Jersey, I imagine the New York rules of etiquette applied.
cheers
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