Not that I care because the films are trash, but now without Snyder I know they'll be able to take on Marvel. How much of a flop do you have to be to single handedly keep an entire franchise of films back like Snyder did?=
shareNot that I care because the films are trash, but now without Snyder I know they'll be able to take on Marvel. How much of a flop do you have to be to single handedly keep an entire franchise of films back like Snyder did?=The secret to Warner finding success would be to not worry about what Marvel is or is not doing.
that is true.
shareI think the DCEU will be fine. Aquaman and Shazam are looking promising and Wonder Woman seems to be in good hands.
shareI'm not sure that the DCEU franchise can be saved, there have been too many bad films already.
The secret of Marvel's success is that their films are consistently fun and entertaining, while the current DC franchise has earned its reputation for putting out films that are no fun and not entertaining, films that satisfy neither the fun-loving Marvel fans, the humorless DC enthusiasts, or general audiences looking for two hours of mindless entertainment. "Wonder Woman" is seen as an exception rather than the beginning of a trend, because it was followed by the boring and joyless "Justice League". So that's 4 out of 5 bad films, I don't think they can recover from this.
Everything depends of wether Aquaman and Shazam! will do good or not.
If they do there is hope, and DC was the main attraction in Comic-Con this year especially with Shazam!
Also the tone changed. Aquaman and Shazam! are more colourful and brighter.
Well I'll probably see Aquaman, but only because they cast such a hot actor that I'll pay money to just watch him for two hours.
But it's like that series of Narnia movies that were made a few years ago, the movies are being made by the wrong crew. Aside from Patty Jenkins they just don't know how to make the DC stories entertaining.
I think James Wan knows what he is doing. One condition he gave to DC for directing Aquaman was to have full controll of the film. He can do what he wants with it and that's why I think he knows what he wants this film to be. And from the trailers it looks different than the other DCEU films (maybe not Wonder Woman).
shareWell I hope it has something to offer other than a really hot actor running around shirtless, but FYI sometimes that's enough.
But even if it's good, and a hit, I still think it's too late to turn the DC films into the sort of financial juggernaut that Marvel still is. Too many bad films too early, some audiences won't come back even if they start putting out good stuff.
Don't know. If Marvel puts bad films now people stop to care about them aswell. Also the direction DC is going it seems like BvS SS and JL can be ignored.
shareThe thing about Marvel is that even if the films are bad, they're fun bad! And sometimes they're good, even really good! Their audiences enjoy them, they consistently (well, 90% of the time) deliver twelve bucks' worth of fun to their target audiences. It kills me to confess to having actual brand loyalty, but I guess I have to in this case.
If the DC franchise has so far failed to build that kind of brand loyalty, and even if they succeed in making a fresh start and pleasing future audiences, they're now in a position of building a fan base almost from scratch. As far as I can tell there's no real DCEU fandom, the DC fandom is made up of fans of OTHER DC products, not these stupid films. I mean that's a start for them, maybe enough to keep the franchise going if they keep their budgets down, but it's not the same as having people actually looking forward to their next films.
I know what you mean, there are alot of things I'm pissed with the DCEU aswell, but if this films begin to be as fun as you describe the MARVEL films, than maybe the audience will forgive it. Many are willing to do it because Snyder isn't as involved as before.
shareI'll never understand why the hell it is a rule that these movies need to be joyful. Especially after the success of The Dark Knight. What happened?
shareMost people prefer fun to misery, and laughter to depression.
I know that DC fans differ from other people in this respect, as they actively dislike fun, humor, joyfulness, hope, and enjoyment. So fine, whatever floats your boat, guys, enjoy your grim dark world to the fullest! Mazeltov! Just be aware that there aren't enough people with these preferences to keep a huge movie franchise going. Well, not if the films themselves are terrible.
That makes no fucking sense. Remember the DARK KNIGHT? Did pretty well and received praise. Did Marvel turn everyone into anti-creativity stones? Now non-comedies are banned? I have no problem with joy, I just happen to like both. I don't like stupidity however.
sharePut it this way: Lots of people like a well-made movie of any genre. Even people who don't like dark-and-grim stuff can enjoy a movie like "The Dark Knight", even if they don't normally like things of that tone and genre.
It's only DCEU fans who like BAD movies that are dark, grim, and joyless.
It's really not that grim. Maybe Disney is more your speed :-/
shareMarvel is exactly my speed! Aren't I lucky, that so many movies are being made to my taste, and that they're so successful that more are getting made all the time?
Try to imagine how that feels, DC fans.
I suppose you are, but it's not really a big deal. I can watch other movies, or commit time to my many other hobbies.
shareEven the Dark Knight Trilogy has some levity to the films (Batman Begins had jokes even). I think BvS was a more somber movie than Dark Knight and it really shouldn’t have been.
Keep in mind, there are plenty of MCU movies that have a serious tone and they are loved. People just don’t want darkness for the sake of darkness.
It's perfectly fair to say the movie wasn't done well, but I don't get the anti-darkness stuff. Isn't Batman and related comics dark? So subsequently so would be its adaptation? Although JL definitely had humor and more than The Dark Knight. The Dark Knight is not loved for its light-hearted moments. I would consider TDK dark for the sake of it.
shareNo one is against dark movies.
As I mentioned, MCU movies can be pretty dark. Certainly, the Netflix MCU shows are really dark and people love them. In the past, movies like Blade Trilogy and the Dark Knight Trilogy have been very popular precisely because they're pretty dark superhero flicks. Blade and Batman should be dark. We shouldn't have a bunch of jokes. When Batman isn't dark, that's when you get Batman & Robin and most people hate that movie.
Superman should not be dark, though. It goes against the character. A movie teaming up Batman and Superman for the first time should have some amount of fun to it. In fact, one of the best contrasts between Superman and Batman is that one is full of hope and the other is full of darkness. Instead, we got one very violent and disturbed hero going up against another very violent and disturbed hero. It doesn't work.
WB/DCEU's real problem is WB/DCEU. They don't have an extremely talented writer/director duo like they had with Christopher/Jonathan Nolan. They also don't have a direct conduit to understanding what resonates with comic-book fans like Marvel has with Kevin Feige.
You can argue that on top of Feige, Marvel has duos of their own like the Russos and Markus/McFeely. So that's two directors and two screenwriters all working on a similar vision and sending it through Feige who understands what comic fans want to see in a flagship movie event. It is a system that is guaranteed to make those flagship events work. Gone are the days when Feige allows a tentpole movie to rest on one person's shoulders like he did with Whedon and Age of Ultron. Now Feige is the permanent filter, and he's got teams of people putting ideas together for him to say yay or nay to.
Over at WB/DCEU, they are still winging it with no Feige filter and no Nolans. What WB/DCEU is basically saying is "give us an Age of Ultron except with less movies to develop those characters." Ok DCEU. Good luck with that.
Darker tone, lighter tone, none of that really matters. When they are winging it this hard, the tone doesn't mean a damn thing.
IMHO the question of whether the tone is dark or light matters,and matters at the box office. I don't think a huge number of people take superhero movies seriously enough to appreciate the dark and dramatic tone, not unless they're unusually well-made. And many people are like myself, if I spend money on a movie I want it to deliver some laughter and fun and wow factor. I work in the helping profesdions and see too much dark-toned drama in real life to pay to see more in a movie theater, and I'm not the only one.
But if course that's a secondary problem, you are absolutely correct that the real problem with the DCEU is that nobody likes the actual films! Even the people who sort of like them don't like them very much, and keep comparing them unfavorably to the Nolan trilogy. Nolan appears to be the only one who can carry off the Nolan style*, and he's got better things to do than make more superhero films.
And meanwhile Marvel keeps ticking right along, delivering twelve bucks worth of fun and escapism every time. Well, almost every time, there's still "Ultron".
* Two times out of three, anyway.
I dunno, I guess I just don't care if superhero movies are light or dark. I believe they can be either or. Burton's Batman was rather dark, as was Nolan's trilogy. Man of Steel was lighter, but only a little bit, and I thought it was a good attempt. They probably thought that going darker for BvS was the way to go since Burton and Nolan proved it worked for Batman. But to me, I'm more concerned about how good the overall writing is and how well it translates to the screen. If the writer and director need a certain tone for that translation to work, then by all means they should go for that tone. So far, the tones that have worked the best are the ones where they play it in the middle like Wonder Woman and Man of Steel. Maybe it's that middle ground tone that gives the writers and directors more room to create. I really can't say for sure.
shareThe Nolan's are not talented though. Their trilogy is filled with stupid ass jokes in every scene like 'my mother warned me not to get in cars with boys' or whatever, wow such brilliant writing right there.
shareYou are attempting to argue that your opinion of the Nolans is worth more than the majority who disagree with you, but you don't explain how or why we should accept it. You'll have to articulate it a lot better than simply claiming that every scene in the Dark Knight trilogy is filled with jokes that you consider to be "stupid ass." Because to me, that sounds a lot like hyperbole, and also appears to completely ignore the films' structures along with their payoffs that have resonated better with comic-book fans more so than any superhero films made prior.
shareI form my own opinions, I don't go by what the majority says. It is not hyperbole. He can't do a film without making dumb jokes, at least the puns in Batman & Robin worked, he just ruins his own films. His films resonate with sickos, neckbeards, white dudebros.
shareOk, then I guess that's my mistake. I didn't know I was talking to a child.
share"but now without Snyder" is a really simplistic viewpoint on how these films are made.
- "Man of Steel" and "Wonder Woman" (which owes a lot to Snyder) were actually quite good.
- "Batman vs Superman" had a terrible script and was edited by the studio.
- "Suicide Squad" was terribly written and directed by David Ayer and then re-edited by the studio.
- "Justice League" wasn't even a finished film, due to the suicide of Snyder's daughter, but was rushed out by the studio.
The common thread here is Warner Bros rushing out poorly-assembled and often incomplete products in order to meet a release schedule and "take on Marvel".
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You can read all of my latest film reviews here: https://www.maketheswitch.com.au/about/Jake
I think the future looks bright for DCEU
^^^
I think theres something very wrong with this statement.......Its inaccurate
what you should be saying is "I think the future looks bright for DC Films"
The DCEU is officiall DEAD...
Its creator Is fired
Its dark depressing and colorless tones are No More, Replaced by exact copies of Bright,colorful and HUMOROUS MCU tones
Affleck and Cavill is Out as Batman and Superman
The Batman is a complete Reboot, New Actor, Younger Version of The character
WB just announced they have no plans to make any Superman movies anytime soon instead focusing on Supergirl
All Future "DC Films" are intentionally being written as SOLO films to distance themselves from The now DEAD DCEU and horrifically failed Justice League Film
Wonder Woman is set in 1984 specifically so it can be a SOLO film free on all DCEU and JL connection
The Flash is based on Flash Point Yet all JL characters have been written out...
Walter H, The BOSS who now run The DC branch(who hilariously is the 4th BOSS to be hired to run The DCEU branch in the last 3 years after the first 3 were fired for FAILING with 4 out of 5 awful DCEU films) is on record that They are going in a different direction, focusing on Low Budget DC films like The New Joker movie and heavily focusing on Female DC films..
Basically I think Your statement is right....I do think the future is Bright or at least Brighter....but as of right now, The Future Looks Bright for "DC Films" as The DCEU is DEAD!
The DCEU last 5 years, It resulted in 4 out of 5 Awful films, It is and will be remember as the biggest creative failure in Hollywood history...There truly is no calculating the damage 4 out of the 5 films did to The DC characters and The Money Lost is easily in the 15 Billion + range
Batman is Now literally almost 50% the draw he once was before Snyder Got a hold of him....Batman's last 2 SOLO fiilm both made 1 Billion +, once Snyder got a hold of him He Lost 25% of his audiences with BvS and Then over 40% with Justice League....
Superman has had 1 SOLO in 12 years and No plans for any futures ones...thats because Cavill as Superman Is Now Guilty by association Due to Snyder Disastrous Trilogy of films in MOS, BvS, and JL....WB doesnt feel future Cavill-Superman films can earn their potential after These trainwrecks and just wants to start over...
somehow, while trying to "start" a cinematic Universe"...WB managed to RUINED BOTH Batman and Superman's most Iconic Villains in only the 2nd and 3rd DCEU films....Jesse Eisenbergs Lex Luthor was literally maybe the biggest Miscast in Hollywood History, Leto's Joker was an ALL TIME awful performance, so awful the director had to cut out nearly all his scenes....these are the 2 Most ICONIC DC villains, and both were screwed up so horrifically, The Only possible way to have gone forward would have been to recast....The Damage done to these characters is beyond repair, Must be recast
and Finally we get to Justice League....A Potential 7 to 10 Billion dollar franchise is DEAD after 1 film that Flopped and lost 60 Million....
lol Marvel Studios is currently on their 4th Avengers film(5th if you count CW)....and The Avengers is now the biggest draw on Hollywood History...and has made a combined 6 Billion + with no end in site......
lol but Old WB RUINED their potential 3 to 5 film franchise that could have earned them 7 to 10 Billion with 1 FILM...
lol The Pure Depths of The failures of the DCEU films in the last 5 year(especially when compared to its direct rival in Marvel Studios MCU) is unbelievable....
But as I said, I do think the future is Bright or Brighter, I mean my god its got to get better than this right?
But The future is "DC Films".........The DCEU is DEAD....
Ok first off dumb shit the DCEU is far from the biggest creative failure in Hollywood history...maybe the biggest comic book movie creative failure in Hollywood but not the biggest failure in Hollywood history, I give you almost all of Adam Sandler's movies especially Jack and Jill, now there's a movie that should have been banished to the darkest reigns of Hell and never seen the light of day. Now just how far back in Hollywood's history were you looking back at, cause Hollywood has been producing films for a little over a century now. Next time choose your words a little more carefully.
shareOk first off dumb shit the DCEU is far from the biggest creative failure in Hollywood history.maybe the biggest comic book movie creative failure in Hollywood but not the biggest failure in Hollywood history, I give you almost all of Adam Sandler's movies especially Jack and Jill,
^^
Next time think of an example that actually makes sense
lol theres a HUGE Problem with you Adam Sandler Example,and that is Literally damn near all of them have been successes that have made HUGE profit or broken even and most were made with moderate budgets
If you want to argue they are awful Movies, Fine..But When I say The DCEU is the biggest creative failure in Hollywood history Its Many different things that ALL Make it A Disaster
those things are-
1. 4 out of the 5 films were awful
2. 4 out of the 5 films under performed
3. 4 out of the 5 films did repairable damage to The characters
4. WB Let BUDGETS Balloon out of control Spending Absurd amounts that Netted them little Profit
5. Direct Competition-Marvel Studios Is currently having The Greatest Box office reign in Hollywood History, currently 20 Films, getting ready to cross the 20 Billion dollar Mark, produced 20 straight Good to Great Movies that all received Good to Great Reviews....Meanwhile, WB was late to the game having never wanted a "Cinematic Universe" Until they Saw The Avengers Blow up and break records in 2012, immediately decided They wanted a Cinematic Universe, They tried to build what Marvel Studios had, and FAILED on an unimaginable Scale
6. Complete Embarrassment-WB constantly firing BOSSES to run the DCEU branch(4 different people in 3 years), WB constantly Panicking and Sabotaging Their OWN FILMS...WB Interfered in The Post production of BvS, SS and JL...all in an attempt to fix Mistakes and complaints from previous films, WB having meeting where their own board member question what the hell is going on with The DCEU films and WB admitting the films are coming out like they wanted or expected
7. stats-
Did you know WB spent almost 1 Billion dollars making Snyder's disastrous Trilogy...MOS-Cost 250 M...BvS cost 350 to 400 M...JL cost 300 M+........did you know these 3 films only netted them a combined 85 Million dollars in Profit?
MOS Netted WB 42 M in Profit
BvS Netted WB 103 Million in Profit
JL Lost WB at least 60 Million
WB spent almost 1 Billion dollars and made less than 100 Million dollars in Profit....
for comparison(and again this is key, remember WB copied Marvel Studios, So What your direct rival does is important)
did you know Marvel Studios Netted over 700 Million in Profit from Avengers IW
Over 550 Million from Black Panther
Over 500 Million in Profit from Avengers 1
Over 390 Million In Profit from AOU
Over 390 Million In Profit from IM3
and over 100 to 250 Million in Profit on all other MCU films
lol are these words "chosen carefully" enough for you because while you might not like it, I dont just throw shit out there, I only say The DCEU is the biggest creative failure in Hollywood history because Its true, The facts are there to back it up, The facts are so overwhelming it cant even be argued
but heres some more facts-
Did you know not 1 single box office site or analysts predicted BvS to make less than 1 Billion + in 2016...do you know why? Because Batman was a proven Billion dollar earner/draw, His last 2 SOLO films that featured only Batman Made 1 Billion +....and With BvS you had the first ever cinematic Meeting between B+S and the first ever debut of Wonder Woman.....and It Literally Makes over 200 Million dollars LESS than the last solo Batman film....NO ONE could have predicted that...It was not even on the table for something like to happen....
did you know that Justice League astonishingly resulted in 2 directors being fired...BOTH Whedon and Snyder were fired after delivering their cuts
did you know that Justice League(a film that only 2 years was predicted to make 1.5 to 2 Billion and easily have Avengers box office Potential)
failed to even make HALF of The Avengers gross in ANY WAY
JL opened to 93 M...thats not even half of The Avengers 207 M
JL made 228 Million domestically....thats not even half of The Avengers 620 M
JL Made 657 M WW....thats not even half of The Avengers 1.5 B+
Did you know that Ben Affleck was Hired by WB Specifically to be "The DCEUs Robert Downey JR"...that is literally how WB and WBs president explained his contract and his deal to execs....
RDJ now 8 Films deep in The MCU, His character as Iron Man is the most bankable Superhero on earth, Making near 5o M+ a film....meanwhile Ben Affleck was Literally BROKEN after only 1 DCEU in BvS(we all remember the SAD AFFLECK memes) Affleck immediately wanted out of the role, Began drinking and his entire career has fallen apart...
Look The facts are other worldly....there has never been a failure on the scale of the 5 DCEU films and The 5 years they lasted....
The Key to why The DCEU is the biggest creative failure and Missed opportunit in Hollywood history directly Lies With The success of Marvel Studios..
Had Marvel Studios Not had the greatest box office run in history, Had we NOT SEEN what kind of success could be had if you did it right and actually had a plan and vision....then theirs no way to call or prove The DCEU is the biggest creative failure and Missed opportunity in Hollywood history.....Be there is, WB completely changed course and tried to copy Marvel Studios...WB never wanted a cinematic Universe until they saw the success of The Avengers....WB created the DCEU for the sole purpose of wanting to have similar or greater success than Than MCU....in that Goal they FAILED and FAILED on a never before seen scale..
PS....your adam sandler example seriously stunned me, It was so bad, so completely not thought out, I'm truly still astonished you actually said it....
comparing Sandler's Movies that almost all have been successful to The unimaginable failures of the DCEU is just truly shocking...
PSS---thank you for not attempting to refute or argue that the DCEU isnt dead....
while your statement questioning The DCEU isnt the biggest creative failure is absurd enough...
I'm glad to see even you wanted no part in arguing the DCEU isnt DEAD!
thanks again
HA!HA!HA!HA! oh man what kind of crack have you been smoking? Almost all of Sandler's films were ruthlessly mocked and pan by critics and audiences such as Eight Crazy Nights, the Hotel Transylvania franchises, and of course the absolute abomination that is Jack and Jill.
How in Gods good earth can you declare his movies a success? He was nominated for 26 Razzies and won 9 that for most people would indicate the exact opposite of a successful Hollywood career and is truly one of Hollywood's greatest embarrassments, you'd have to a complete retard to thing other wise...well than again look who I'm taking to.