of films which reimagine legends. I don't mean tweaking by adding extra events or characters or changing sexes to include more women but just outright disregard for the original story. Just make up your own and cash in or show some semblance of respect. BBC ran a series called "Merlin" which was very good in terms of quality but absolutely nothing to do with Arthurian legends, any of them so why not just call it something else. The point of Robin Hood is that he's an outlaw not some pseudo-Sommersby coming back from a war pretending although not his idea to be someone else causing to have some "Robin and Marian" type relationship when whatever the reality he should be roaming round the woods with Tuck and Little John being a pain in the neck to the badly behaved authorities. Obviously there are mainly candidates for the real Robin Hood and they tended to be noblemen stripped of their lands and/or their titles for defying John and became outlaws - that is where reality stops and the fun of the legend begins ... no legend here and no fun either. I have not seen "Prometheus" but after huge anticipation people have told me that's a let down as well. Pity because I'm a huge fan of Ridley.
Ah it was supposed to be a prequel so I'll let it off slightly.
The Robin Hood legend itself only arose because bits and pieces of stories were reimagined. A legend is never fixed, otherwise it's a dead legend (more likely, it's a myth). You say "the point about Robin Hood is that he's an outlaw." I disagree. I think the point of Robin Hood is that he's an outlaw who's in love with a woman named Marian and who fights against an evil prince and/or sheriff. But that's not the legend of Robin Hood, that's MY version of the legend of Robin Hood. Marian actually only became attached to the legend rather late. Robin Hood was an outlaw from the earliest references, yes, that is true; but I much prefer MY Robin Hood to steal from the rich to give to the poor, and that is, again, a rather late addition to the character - which makes it a betrayal of the "real" Robin Hood. And how glad I am for it! There is no way of being faithful to "the legend" because the legend is polymorphous and in perpetual movement. And each retelling adds its own little take to the whole.
BTW, "Merlin" had a lot to do with Arthurian legend; very little actually came completely out of the blue. Of course it was a very free reinterpretation, but they did far more than just take a few character names.
The problem is also that there isn't actually a legend of Robin Hood in the same way as, say, St George and the Dragon - there isn't actually a specific story attached to him, only a vague set of incidents that have been cobbled together over the centuries. The overall idea is of an outlaw (who might or might not be the dispossessed son of a Saxon nobleman) living in Sherwood Forest with his Merrie Men, robbing the rich and giving to the poor and generally subverting the reign of King John until Richard the Lionheart comes back from the Crusades. The fact that the original folk tales describe someone living in the reign of 'Edward' (i.e at least 70 years after Richard's death), is blithely ignored. The point is that the legend of Robin Hood is insubstantial, to say the least, and that there is no real story to mess about with in the first place, so this effort, apart from its glaring historical (rather than legendary) inaccuracies, is probably as valid as anything else.
There is barely any reference to Arthur as an historical figure so what we have is the evolving legend but if you're starting from the point of Arthur living with his Dad and his traditional mentor Merlin being even younger hiding his powers etc and taking a lot of s**t while performing magic everyone choose to ignore then I think you are utterly lost already. I'm not going to argue about the fact that individual incidents in the TV programmes were taken from Arthurian legends but these did to happen after Arthur became king. The limited writing there was about the "real" Arthur suggests that he was of Roman descent and led an army in the 5th century although I'm unclear exactly who he was fighting since the only battle he was mentioned of being at was in Carlisle so maybe the Scots.
I remember researching possible candidates for being the "real" Robin Hood and I came to the conclusion that it was some nobleman who wouldn't pay their taxes so went and hid in the forest. The name Robin Hood does seem extremely generic so it's entirely possible it could have referred to several people including the usual suspects, of which the guy I favoured wasn't actually one. Incidentally the BBC's recent "Robin Hood" seemed to be fine from what I could tell.
Sorry for such a late reply, I completely overlooked your post. I'd like to comment on this: Arthur's "traditional mentor". This choice of words is very interesting to me, because it brings grist to my mill. Merlin was never Arthur's "traditional mentor" before a guy named TH White decided to make him that. That was in the 1930s. I don't want to minimize White's excellent work: he did popularize the image of old Merlin teaching young Arthur to the point that it now comes naturally to mind and appears perfectly all right and unquestionable in movies such as the 80s Excalibur, which further embedded the image of the "traditional mentor (the way Obiwan is Luke's unquestionable mentor in Star Wars). But isn't a character from the 1930s a bit young to be labelled as "traditional", compared to his much, much more ancient forebear?
Even if you take "the Arthurian legend" to mean "the Arthurian legend we know best, complete with Uther's metamorphosis, the sword in the stone, the incestuous Mordred etc...", i.e, the Vulgate version of the legend, later rewritten by Malory, what we are talking about is the Arthurian legend of the 13th century; for 700 years, Merlin had nothing to do with teaching young Arthur; Merlin has only been Arthur's mentor for roughly 70 years. Surely that ratio should prevent us from using the term "traditional". The 700 year old Merlin should outweigh the 70 year old one. Why is it not the case? Because we tend to take into account only the most recently striking examples of the rewritten legend. Why is it OK when it's about a modern Merlin, but not when it's a slightly less modern Robin Hood? I don't see the difference; the only difference is in how successful a work of fiction has been, how many people's view of a legend it has informed (or "twisted", if you're a true traditionalist - which I'm not: to me, all new versions of a legend add on to the earlier ones, they do not replace them). In that respect, "traditional" only means "popular", regardless of actual tradition.
By mentor I wasn't using that as being the teacher of the child but of Arthur the King which is from Malory. Geoffrey of Monmouth of course only mentions him as having to do with Arthur's conception and where his sources are from is unclear. Obviously these stories are pure fiction - any historical characters that Arthur and the unconnected Merlin may be based on are lost in time - so it's really from Malory's bastardisation of Arthurian legend with other stories that I am taking "traditional" from. However without Malory I doubt if there would be the popularity of the legend there is today and indeed over the last 150 years although there are many local Arthurian legends throughout Britain which don't necessarily come from Malory. We did "Gawain and the Green Knight" in school and I'm pretty sure Merlin wasn't around in that story.
There was a real person named Robin Hood, I think that might be what the fictional Robin Hood is based off of. I think this was supposed to be more realistic. Lets face it all the other ways you can do Robin Hood have been done!
There was a real person named Robin Hood, I think that might be what the fictional Robin Hood is based off of.
Actually there are records in several different places and different times in the Middle Ages that mention outlaws named Robert, Rob or Robin Hood; it seems to have been a traditional alias. Whether these medieval outlaws had taken the name of a real historical person or a character from folklore (there’s a theory that the original ‘Robin Hood’ was a woodland spirit, like Robin Goodfellow) is anybody’s guess.
I think this was supposed to be more realistic.
I think so too, but if that was the intention it was a dismal failure. Let’s face it, it’s neither realistic in the sense ‘this is what the Middle Ages were like’ or in the sense ‘this is how things happen and how people behave in real life’. It’s as much a fantasy as Men in Tights, just a lot less funny.
A lot of movies that get produced today are all about how settling down with a wife and family and becoming domesticated will solve most of your problems. And when your problems are solved, then everyone else problems are solved.
Unfortunately the real world works slightly differently, and the producers of this film really screwed over the character, the audience and the legacy that is Robin Hood with this piece of trash; right down to the World War 2-ish "Normandy-like" landing by the French (was there any more ridiculous sequence in any film?).
If it weren't for the fact that there was some real effort to dress up the actors and sets, the thing would have flopped regardless of who was starring in the role.
Most of the film was just plain bad from the get go.
The story's failure is blamed on the screen writer, who also bastardized Dumas's Musketeer tales with his "To prevent a war" BS with flying galleons and martial arts King's Muketeers. The man is a nut job, and he and his work are the worst I've ever seen by any screen writer anywhere.
The story's failure is blamed on the screen writer, who also bastardized Dumas's Musketeer tales with his "To prevent a war" BS with flying galleons and martial arts King's Muketeers. The man is a nut job, and he and his work are the worst I've ever seen by any screen writer anywhere.
Which film would this be? A quick glance does not reveal any musketeer films in the CV of any of the three screenwriters of this film.
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Which film would this be? A quick glance does not reveal any musketeer films in the CV of any of the three screenwriters of this film.
There isn't one, The 'Robin Hood' script was by Brian Helgeland (with additional uncredited dialogue by Tom Stoppard) Reiff and Voris (who get story credit) wrote the original 'Nottingham' script which was ditched in favour of the eventual film.
The 'Three Musketeers' (2011) is credited to Alex Litvak and Andrew Davies. I would imagine that the 'BS with flying galleons and martial arts' is largely Litvak's (and Paul W.S. Anderson's) and the dialogue and characterisation (which isn't bad for this type of movie) is chiefly Davies' (who has written tons of literary adaptations, original plays and series for TV as well a load of successful films and is pretty much the doyen of UK screenwriters).
There isn't one, The 'Robin Hood' script was by Brian Helgeland (with additional uncredited dialogue by Tom Stoppard) Reiff and Voris (who get story credit) wrote the original 'Nottingham' script which was ditched in favour of the eventual film.
The 'Three Musketeers' (2011) is credited to Alex Litvak and Andrew Davies. I would imagine that the 'BS with flying galleons and martial arts' is largely Litvak's (and Paul W.S. Anderson's) and the dialogue and characterisation (which isn't bad for this type of movie) is chiefly Davies' (who has written tons of literary adaptations, original plays and series for TV as well a load of successful films and is pretty much the doyen of UK screenwriters).
Thanks, I had a feeling it was the 2011 movie he was referring to (even though I haven't actually seen it), but figured he got the screenwriters mixed up. Thank you for confirming it.
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"I just don't get the point of films which reimagine legends."
1) Legends are often fables that bear very little relation to real events and often changed bit by bit over time; a film based on such an idea is free to mess with details,
2) If someone wants 'traditional' Robin Hood, there are already many version floating about. What we DON'T need is more of the same.
I don't mind 're-imagining' as an angle in a film - if it works, you have a great new addition to the collection. If it sucks, you still have the older 'good' ones to go back to.
'Then' and 'than' are different words - stop confusing them.