The movie is based on the premise that allows certain applicants (Colter) the ability to enter the mind of a freshly-dead body for the last eight minutes of their life.
That being said, how did they obtain Sean Fentriss' body after it had been blown to smithereens? I doubt there would have been anything left for Colter to inhabit in the first place.
Apart from the ending, and unless I am missing something, I see this as the first major flaw in the movie.
Sean Fentriss' was similar in size, shape, etc. to Colter Stevens (as Dr. Rutledge stated in the movie) but might've really been picked due to the (unstated in movie) possibility that he was one of the few passengers where enough remained of their body/brain to be able to work with the source code.
Only after Colter becomes Sean do we see Sean blown up almost immediately next to the bomb multiple times. We can assume that the real Sean Fentriss died in his seat across from Christina which was farther away from the bomb and could've have been blocked from a lot of the initial blast but still caused him to die in the subsequent crash/fire/smoke inhalation.
And what about the ending? If the disaster was averted, Sean never died, what happens to Stevens? Who brain is he inhabiting?
shareI was thinking this too. What happens to Sean Fentriss' life, is he forever to be possessed by the dead pilots spirit?....
The fact is, ssan is dead no matter what.
If Stevens never went into his mind, he was dead by the blast.
If stevens did go into his mind, he replaced Sean's consciousness.
See, so either way, Sean goes away. At least stevens gets to live on.
The disaster wasn't averted in universe A, so Sean died in that one. In universe B it was averted and he survived but only because of the actions of Colter. If he'd continued being himself in universe B he'd have died just the same, so what's the harm in Colter taking his body? He earned it and Sean only lost out on 8 minutes of his life. A fairly crappy 8 minutes at that.
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Hitler was a dog person.
What universes are you talking about, Colter is in his MEMORY, he manipulates only his MEMORIES, cause he's dead and there isn't, as far as we know, the universe(s) od mind, especialy a dead one!?
shareSo, from Sean Fentriss's memory, he somehow sends a text message to someone neither he or Sean Fentriss has ever met or heard of?
Does that sound right to you?
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Hitler was a dog person.
But if you think about it, it technically wasn't from Sean's memory, but from Gylenhaal's. In the movie, Jake's spirit including thoughts and past memories replaced that of Sean's. Technically it doesn't make sense, but this is a sci-fi film, not everything is logical.
shareNo it was not memories.
That was an alternate reality.
Universe 1 is where Stevens is from.
He visits universe 2-19 trying to find the bomber (whatever that number really is)
Universe 20 is the final universe where he saves both the train passengers and Chicago. He continues living Sean's life in his body, in this alternate universe...
How could programmers create an entirely separate and complete universe -- one where the guy can roam freely, get off the train, and run around the Chicago country side looking for license plate numbers, essentially visiting places the dead guy never visited? That's ridiculous! Furthermore, how did they get ahold of the dead guy's memories in the first place? He was incinerated in the explosion before the source code team would have known about the first bomb. There is no Universe A and Universe B! They clearly said that he was stepping into the guy's memories and that they selected this guy (out of all the passengers on the train) because he was the best match in profile. Basically it comes down to sloppy writing. There are no excuses for this. The writers should have come up with some plausible reasons for these two problems. The fact that they asked the audience to suspect believe to that degree hurt an otherwise well made film.
shareI kept thinking about the guy who dropped his wallet there. Thinking it would place him still on the train. The people appeared to be blown to bits, there's no way the wallet would've made it to prove or disprove anything.
shareAfter 9/11, hijacker Mohammed Atta's passport was found intact two blocks away from the World Trade Center.
Explosions wreak havoc on large things -- the train car, human bodies -- but will generally just push smaller things around. In fact, basically all an explosion does is turn big things into much smaller things and propel them outwards rapidly.
The main flaw in that plan was that Frost was supposed to carry out the dirty bomb attack just hours after the train bombing; odds are, authorities wouldn't have found the wallet in so much rubble in that short a time frame and probably wouldn't much have cared.
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I thought it would be a good cover up for Frost's death. His wallet was on that train, his body parts are probably all over it. Now he can go and live the rest of his life watching the chaos without having to worry about getting caught.
The end of the world doesn't seem so bad now that you're here.
The passport was planted. It's abit convenient that it was one of the attackers passport and not a passenger
shareAnother plot hole that wasn't clear: What happens to Vera Farmiga's character?
The MP's were called on her by Jeffrey Wright's character, and we weren't told if she was arrested or not. If she was, in the 'real world'....it's a very weird 'happy' ending....
If that plot point was handled well, my score would have been bumped up from a 7 to an 8.
More than likely she would just be reassigned. How could they court-martial her for killing a "dead" man?
shareI agree, but I blame it on the writers for having us do all the work to figure out what happened to her character...lol
Haha, yea but sometimes it's nice to make up your own endings. I think the authors didn't finish up on the "real world" plot due to the fact that that "dimension" was irrelevant. They were focusing on Vera's present in the alternate which was affected by Gylenhaal's actions. Since the other world was irrelative, they concentrated on a view other than Gylenhaal's, from the world he currently occupied.
In my opinion, it's kind of sick that every time he looks in the mirror, he won't see himself; he won't be able to attend his father's funeral (well he could but not as he should)
But if he kills himself as Sean he may wake up as a whole Colter in reality.
shareThe whole plot of the movie was flawed. The gov is sending people back to stop a terrorist attack on a train? Never in a millions years would they ever.
Kindergarden Cop was more realistic plot.
WTF?
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Um... it's sci-fi - and only a movie, as well. Of course it would never happen in real life, but neither would any action adventure film produced since Die Hard (if not before). It's called escapism.
shareThe whole plot of the movie was flawed. The gov is sending people back to stop a terrorist attack on a train? Never in a millions years would they ever.
The way I understood it, they created the opportunity themselve... the way the boss was saying his line that one day there will be a way to show what they can do? Sounded like he needed to get proof to get further funding by the government or something. It left a bad taste in my mouth.
What do you think?
No, they were sending him back to gather information to prevent the next attack. In "reality", the trains blowing up was in the past and couldn't possibly be changed.
shareI thought it was really strange that Colter didn't immediately check out everyone (like wallet drop guy) who got off the train the stop before the bomb. If I planted a bomb I wouldn't want to hang around either.
Then they explain this by saying the train blew up right next to another one, so the bomber was a suicide bomber and had to be on the train (or watching nearby) to get the timing exact.
Then we find out it's Frost (was that his name? The wallet guy) and he did get off. When he put his wallet back on the train I thought "oh, he has some sort of sensor in there to detect the next train... or something...?" But no. So they never really explained why the trains blew up next to each other. Just a coincidence?
Aside from all that, how is blowing up Chicago going to start America anew? I could kinda see if it was in Washington D.C., but all that's going to happen is a lot of innocent lives are going to end in Chicago, and the rest of the country is going to keep on keeping on.
Anyway, this cake is great. It's so delicious and moist.
Wannie;
Part of the reason why Colter didn't start checking everyone is that he was multi-tasking ;-) He was trying (half-heartedly) to accomplish the mission but also trying to figure out what the heck was going on - e.g. how could he be in another man's body et al. There were at least three sortes primarily focused on him (and us) trying to figure out what was going on.
Yeah, a lot of what the film makers were doing was simply to make the situation more confused. To a degree that is understandable. We really only get to see the passengers on one train car. How many cars were there? At least four of five. Which would have been a lot more to deal with than just one floor of one car. But to show that would have taken more time without progressing the story.
"Starting Anew"; of course it won't restart America - remember HE IS A NUT. Just like the nuts on 9-11 who thought their actions were going to accomplish anything. They stirred up the ant hill - that's it.
I didn't mean why didn't he literally check everyone on the train, I meant those people who got off right before the bomb blew up.
I get that he was disoriented and whatnot, but once he did start trying to accomplish the mission he ignored the passengers that exited because apparently the bomber was a suicide bomber. They never addressed how/why the trains blew up right next to each other.
Yeah, your "starting anew" is a good point, maybe the film didn't have to explain his rationale, since his rationale was balls deep insanity.
Anyway, this cake is great. It's so delicious and moist.
I dont think they had to address why the trains exploded next to each other. It can just easily be assumed the bomber planned the bomb to go off at that time to increase the fatality rate and create more "rubble"
remember when the bomber was held at gun point in his van? when he was able to turn the trigger on Colter, I believe he said "you messed up my timing." that probably means he had a specific time blow up the train, like when it passes another one.
Hey, this is a while later, but I just stumbled back here.
The funny thing is, my point is kind of your point. They DIDN'T need to address why the trains exploded next to each other, yet they did. They said it had to be a suicide bomber because they exploded next to each other.
I thought "couldn't the bomber just consult a schedule?" but I assumed it was important because they mentioned. But I think it was just them hanging a lamp shade on it so that we would ignore why he stayed on the train so long at first.
Anyway, this cake is great. It's so delicious and moist.
What I understand/assume by thinking of a correlation with quantum mechanics and the multiverse "theory" :
They believed he is working on a shadow of reality, like a mirror. And nothing he was doing over there could change anything in reality except the information they got from him. At the end of the movie you can see that he actually lives into another world that it is real too. He messaged Goodwin so she had the proof that he altered one world: the one he was living as Sean Fentriss and being alive at the same time in the laboratory. There is still a problem with Sean Fentriss "entity" and it looks like the conclusion is that they are actually creating a new world and not entering his body at all ... There are big issues of course, but quantum mechanics has big plots as a theory itself (it's just a piece of a theory).
How can the pilot survive in a face which he thinks is a mask... maybe due to the girl which he got..
:))) he probably hates mirrors .
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Why is anyone even discussing this?
the movie made absolutely no sense whatsoever. It's just a popcorn flick, with the most absurd plot in the history of sci fi.
Let it go, already.
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I've had in-depth discussions about where the cars in Cars came from and whether they exist in an alternate dimension, a possible future, or a simulated reality. I mean, they need fuel to run, but who made the fuel in the first place? Are fuel pumps organic in that reality, but then why would Flo own a gas station...
Ok, don't get me started.
The point is, though my wife may agree with you, I will never stop questioning stupid bullsh*t.
Anyway, this cake is great. It's so delicious and moist.
You could ask the same questions regarding humans; just replace your "cars" and "fuel" with "people" and "food"
We have grocery stores that sell food, they have gas stations that sell fuel.
Why would the fuel pumps need to be organic in that reality?
Even within their (clearly) fictional universe that's a question that doesn't need to be asked since the cross comparison is already obvious.
Food is all around us and is manipulated by us with our hands, prepared, and then placed into our mouths, again, using our hands. The cars have fuel tanks and seem to require fuel pumps to get the fuel in them. They trigger the pumps with their wheels which causes the pump to lower directly into their gas tanks, and then retract when they are done.
How could they have possibly gotten the fuel into them without those automated fuel pumps?
Anyway, this cake is great. It's so delicious and moist.
You are really over thinking this
That's a question that could be asked about every aspect of their world: how does any of it get built without thumbs
It's a stupid cartoon, thats how
Of course I'm overthinking this! That's my point. I'll never stop overthinking movies no matter how stupid or non-sensical they are.
And yes, I've put a lot of thought into how the world of Cars came into being since it seems impossible that the cars could have built it, and why does it look exactly like our world, and... you know what, you obviously are done overthinking a children's movie on an unrelated board, let's just leave it alone.
Haha.
Anyway, this cake is great. It's so delicious and moist.
Hi. This is one explanation that covers all of your questions about Cars, and then some...
http://jonnegroni.com/2013/07/11/the-pixar-theory/
Better than being dead...
shareThe body in the incubator is that of Steven's, not of Sean.
They explained source code wrong on purpose at first. They only have the ability to see the last 8 minutes, not due to any physical limitations of the body or of the connection by the source code. That's as far back that they could send Stevens consciousness into another alternate reality.
They don't explain how source code works and they probably don't know much either. But they do know it sends you to a different reality. They just didn't know it was possible to permanently stay in that reality. The key to permanency was the death of the original Stevens body at the moment the connection tried to bring him back.
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