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What the hell, MY preferred version of Season 8 (and 9)! Let's all have a go!

posted 6 years ago by Otter (24464)
13 replies | jump to latest

I'll play! MY preferred version of Season 8 actually takes two seasons, the first devoted to the War between the Living and the Dead, and the second settling the rule of Westeros.

* * *

Season 8: The War Between the Living and the Dead takes rather longer than one episode. We see skirmishes and drama as the Night's King marches south from the Wall, Dany and Jon take the dragons and try to burn a Minnesota-sized patch of forest in the hopes of slowing them down (not), and their love deepens what with being dragon-riders and they marry. Jamie and Brienne fall in love. Tyrion and Sansa get closer.

The Dead attack Winterfell and the living are able to hold the walls, they find themselves besieged as the Night's King takes the bulk of his army south. Bran tells everyone that Craster is responsible for the rise of the armies of the Dead, by giving them all his numerous sons, he created a critical mass of White Walkers and brought on the Long Night. So Little Sam the incest baby is used as bait to draw the White Walkers into a place where they can be fought, in a move that horrifies everyone, and Jamie tells everyone that Cersei is pregnant with an incest baby too, and maybe that's why the Night's King is going south. But no, the NK comes for Sam, there are mid-air dragon fights, and I haven't made up my mind quite how the NK dies yet, but he does, and duh, the Living win.

Danerys thanks everyone for their service, and says it's time to resume her campaign to reclaim her father's throne.

* * *

Season 9: Cersei is taken out in the first few episodes, in some satisfying and dramatic comeuppance, Euron dies after losing his genitals somehow, and Kyburn is killed by Frankenmountain. Jon and Dany were gloriously happy as they fought the armies of the dead, so much so that Tyrion and Varys were worried she'd lost her focus, and she really does start to lose her focus as she and Jon disagree about the methods to use and their marriage starts to crumble, and THIS is when the truth about Jon's parentage comes out. Dany begins to fear that even if she does win, he'll end up as King and the real power and everything she's done will have been for nothing, and tensions between them grow as they conquer King's Landing and take out Cersei.

Jon and Dany are now seriously at odds, and all the other characters begin to take sides. Tyrion, Varys, the Starks, and Davos side with Jon, and Grey Worm and Meissandre are the only ones who support Dany (Jorah died at Winterfell). There's a lot of politics before Jon and Dany and their supporters finally go to war, and when Jon mounts his dragon for the final battle he has absolutely no idea if his dragon will obey him, or side with its "mother".

Well, he wins somehow. But he's had to kill his beloved wife, and he's inherited a throne he sure as hell doesn't want. He abdicates in favor of Tyrion and Sansa (he declares them legally married), as Tyrion is Cersei's next of kin and Sansa is his, so the heirs of both warring dynasties take the newly built double throne and officially declare that the War of Five Kings and Two Queens is FUCKING OVER. Bran takes on the rule of the North, Jon goes to live with Tormund, Gendry takes the Baratheon lands, and Westeros has two sane and competent rulers who, we hope, will eventually get drunk enough to produce an heir.

* * *

The end.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

Let me start by saying that I would’ve been fine with your version.
I like that you did NOT take the course some people suggested, that Daenerys should have taken King’s Landing BEFORE going north to stop the Army of the Dead, which would’ve made no sense at all to me. (I’m not going to elaborate on that here because this is the thread regarding your alternate ending.)

However, I think in one regard you’re making the same mistake that the writers did:
> Well, he wins somehow.

You see, in my opinion it’s highly unlikely that Jon CAN win. Drogon always was shown as the largest and strongest of the Dragons, Daenerys IS Rhaegal’s mother, and Daenerys has more experience how to ride a dragon and use it as a weapon.
So, how did the writers handle such unlikely things?
– How is it possible that the Unsullied didn’t kill Jon right away after he killed Daenerys? Oh, somehow. Let’s just not show it.
– How is it possible that the Council persuaded Grey Worm to accept Jon’s "punsihment"? Somehow.

By just saying "he wins somehow", you’re doing the same in my opinion, you’re neglecting to explain how a VERY important part of the story actually worked.

Of course I understand that this is just a draft so just take my posting as a suggestion of which part has to elaborated on in order to make the story work. I’m not saying it is impossible that Jon wins (after all, unlikely things DO happen, in our real world and even more so in stories), just that I’m not satisfied with a "somehow" because that "somehow" approach of the writers was one of the things that spoiled the ending for me.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

Obviously my version is highly encapsulated, partly because I dont want to bore everyone with too many details, and partly because I haven't worked everything out in my head.

As for how Jon wins, there are two basic possibilities: Obviously one is that he talks to her one on one and just kills her with physical force. She's so tiny. The other is that Jon wins because all of Westeros backs home-born Jon against invader Danerys, which I think could be very dramatic! Maybe the armies of the seven kingdoms come together and wipe out the unsullied and dothraki, maybe Danerys loses heart when she's rejected by the people she'd hope to rule and loses. The writers really could have made more of the conflict between those two - I mean five minutes of talk and it was all over?

Well it's fun to pretend we're all staff writers or something.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

I see, when you wrote "when Jon mounts his dragon for the final battle" I suspected that battle would be a "one on one on dragons", which would give her the advantage IMO. But now I understand that you actually include other options.

> Well it's fun to pretend we're all staff writers or something.

It is! :-)

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

Seeing as I haven't made up my mind about half my imaginary finale, I'm VERY open to options!

What's your pretend version of season 8 or 8-plus?

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

I’ve given this a bit of thought, but – to be honest, I’m too lazy to come up with detailed description of my own version.
And as I’ve said in other threads, I am mostly satisfied with the ending in itself, I just wish they had taken more time to flesh out some things and give some better explanations. And somethings you’d have to do more than just rewriting season 8, for example: What was the Night King’s original plan to get past the wall before Dany conveniently provided him with a dragon? At the time the episode aired, I assumed that he might have some kind of greensight, too, so he ALWAYS knew that he’ll have a dragon. But if he had, how could he be surprised by Arya in the Godswood?

(On a sidenote: Regarding plot holes, "Beyond the Wall" is in my opinion easily the worst of all 73 episodes. Yet on imdb.com it gets a 9.1. Ouch.)

So here are just a few notes of what I would have preferred:

– I would have loved to see Jaqen H’ghar one more time. It doesn’t matter to me whether he tries to kill Arya (and preferably fails because I wanted Arya to survive) or if he just explains why he let her get away from the Faceless Men. The main point is that this story arc is closed properly.
– Of course giving some explanation for the Jon/Grey Worm/Unsullied situation mentioned above.
– Leaving out the "a dragon is no match for a bunch of scorpions / a bunch of scorpions is no match for a dragon" contradiction.
– Leaving out that stupid negotiations at the walls of King’s Landing et the end of S08E04. They’ve seen that Cersei can’t be trusted, so what do they do? Send their most important people AND their dragon to the walls where a battery of scorpions is pointed at them. And Cersei in a sudden burst of honor doesn’t take advantage of this. Yeah, right.
(tbc)

[–] Atarimaster (442) 6 years ago

(continuation:)

– And of course: I’m still not sure whether the writers wanted us to believe that Dany turned mad or if they were following the "she has always been a villain but everybody refused to believe that" approach that some people (here in the forum and in other places of the web) were propagating. Maybe this means I’m dumb but in that case, I simply wish they had made this clear even for dullards.
– Not trashing Jaime’s redemption arc in a jiff by making him say: "Oh, I just noticed, I am, and always have been, evil."
– While I actually liked that Cersei did NOT get a memorable death, I would’ve preferred to see her die all alone, screaming "I don’t want to die" to herself and not to her brother/lover.
– etc. pp.

I’d probably find some more things but I just stop here.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

I agree that we needed to see Jaquen H back, without him Arya's story felt unresolved.

And I agree with all your other points, and so do most of the brighter fans. Obviously I'd have been happy if they'd taken things in a completely different direction, but most of the stuff they did do could have been pretty great as well*, if theyd taken the trouble to flesh it out and get the maximum amount of drama out of their ideas.

* With the exception of King Bran

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

Okay, a bit of fleshing out of my imaginary Seasons 8 and 9:

- Jamie and Brienne fall in love, but over the course of season 8 Brienne realizes that Jamie is weak, self-absorbed, and still obsessed with his sister. Things cool and her attitude is "Well that was nice", and she goes on to a life of untroubled celibacy as Lady Commander of the Kingsguard.

- Jamie and Cersei kill each other.

- Hound survives killing Frankenmountain, and is given Castle Umber up near the Wall, where he'll see plenty of Tormund and the Wildlings. He'll get along great with them, and won't miss civilization.

- Bran becomes Master of Whispers, and titular ruler of the North, someone else does the actual ruling in his name.

- Arya meets Jaquen H at the Battle of King's Landing, they fight together and their chemistry blooms, I'm not sure if they walk off into the sunset together or Arya tries to "choose life" and he's not having it, but we see her funeral pyre the next episode.

- Not sure about Bronn, but I think he loses everything and heads off to the Summer Isles to start again.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

I'm going to add one more thing, one more thing that I think the real show ought to have done...

...

Love changes both Jon and Danerys. When they get serious Jon loses the sad-face, and when he rides a dragon and realizes he's a Targaryan, he changes... thinks "Hey, I'm a Targaryan, and that means I can ride dragons and bang relatives and conquer nations!". And Danerys loses her focus on conquering Westeros and pays less attention to Tyrion and Varys, she doesn't seem to care about anything but Jon and his mission to protect the Living against the Dead. And they both change again when the Living win, and they go back to trying to conquer Westeros. Jon's basic decency re-asserts itself, Danerys's focus on conquest does likewise, and their irreconcilable world views drive them apart at first, and to war with each other.

…

Honestly, it wouldn't have taken much extra time to flesh out their relationship and make the break-up and conflict really heart-wrenching. They really should have added another episode or two to make it happen.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

i hope this does not come out to harsh, this might be because you just didn't go into too much details, but I think I like you version even less than the last season we actual got. You successful got rid of the worst scene of the season, the dragon pit council scene. But other than that you almost kept all the worst aspects of the last season while adding even more.

> The War Between the Living and the Dead takes rather longer than one episode...

That is fine to draw out the war with the dead a little more but without a clear direction it would get redundant pretty quick. Then leaving an entire season for politics after the NK is defeated would feel off, as the over arching threat would no longer be present.

The NK motivation you have makes no sense first it is suggested he wants incest babies, for some reason, but then you switch and say he is after Sam, for some reason. That might be a worse explanation than him coming after Bran, at least there is a history between the NK and 3-eyed raven.

Also going an entire additional season of Jon not finding out about his lineage would be tiring. I was already annoyed by finding out about Jon's birth at the end of season 6 but then going an entire additional season before learning his legitimacy and name. I disliked that so much, so going another season for Jon to find out would be intolerable.

The Jon/Dany civil war is an interesting idea but the devil is in the details for making such a thing work on screen. It is hard to believe that Jon would start a war for a throne that he doesn't want, so unless you plan on having them both become villains and power hungry (which is out of character for Jon) I do not know how you would make that work.

While the 'end' point you came up with I actually think is okay, Tyrion and Sansa kind of rulling togther, some of the small details you leave out or I don't like...

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Such as Jaime and Brienne "falling in love" is painfully bad and reeks of fan service, their relationship
only works as a none romantic 'bromance' or something. Making it romantic in anyway undermines the nature of their bonding and their love for each other, it is a love of respect and mutual understanding.

You also completely leave out Arya, Bran and Sansa are mostly side lined, most miner characters do not even get a mention; Melisandra is completely left out. This might be just because of the lack of details but it seems too much is open ended in your version and therefore is even less satisfying then the rushed, nonsensical and contradictory final season we actually got.

Sorry if this sounded harsh, not my intent, I would like to see how you would edit some of this up because it does have a lot of potential, and with just a few more fleshed out details it could be better than the real version.

[–] Otter (24464) 6 years ago

Dude, it's okay if you don't like my version. Hey, I appreciate someone taking me seriously enough to reply! I've only got a few minutes now so if you want serious replies that'll have to wait for tonight. A few points...

1) By "Sam" I meant "Little Sam", Gilly's baby by her father, Craster. People seem to be forgetting that he's not actually Sam Tarly's son, but was the product of incest and was supposed to be given over to the White Walkers. The White Walkers might still want him, or feel entitled to him. And there's a weird preoccupation with incest running through the whole damn saga, anyway, so much so that it seems to be the source of all disasters. Why not this one.

2) I purposefully didn't write out a character arc for every major character, as I said I wanted to be brief. But hey, if anyone's interested...

3) Yes, an extended war between Danerys and Jon would be a bitch to write out on screen, and I'm not even going to try. I wish the professional hads, though.

4) I like the idea of Sansa and Tyrion being made king and queen because that's how the real War of the Roses ended, with the last surviving heirs of both sides marrying and declaring an official end to the whole nasty business. Of course they were miserable together, but Sansa and Tyrion won't have their mother-in-law issues.

More later, if you wish.

[–] arflexit (2376) 6 years ago

Yeah I would like to hear more; you have some interesting concepts, but as you said some of them will be a "bitch to write out".

1) Ah sorry I miss understood that one. I do not think the white walkers were ever specifically interested in products of incest; it seemed they were just taking whatever newborns were offered to them. If there was some sort of motivation for going after the products of incest that would have to be fleshed out more. But it would be interesting if that was the case and the plot of Dany possible becoming pregnant was not completely dropped and forgotten about, you could have a situation in which their are 3 incest babies that the NK was after, 2 of which were potentially next in line for the throne.

2) Ah that is understandable, still I would think that Arya would have something to do even in a brief summary.

3) I would be curious for the motivation you give to Jon to go forward with a civil war for the throne, especially since he is supposedly in love with Dany and no desire to be king himself. What would push him to do this.

4) Interesting end point. I was moving further in English history and assuming the end point was sometime after the war of roses around the time the end of the Tudor dynasty was ending; Sansa being equal to Elizabeth I. But what if the end was suggesting Bran was equal to Richard III, being of the house of York? hmm so many possibilities. then again history is often more interesting that fiction.