MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > Thoughts/Questions on S7E7

Thoughts/Questions on S7E7

posted 7 years ago by LeiaOfLothlorien (1980)
43 replies | jump to latest

Boy, this season went fast.

1. I'm somewhat surprised that the Hound and Brienne bonded so quickly, but I'm not arguing. It's sweet.

2. Cleganebowl was teased. I did find it odd that the Hound could march up and have that conversation with the Mountain, with everyone watching. And was it just me, or did he seem almost kind when he asked what they did to him?

3. Euron causing trouble again. I wonder how much of that Cersei planned with him, and how much he just didn't care about politics.

4. The wight demonstration seemed to go over well, despite the stupidity of the plan. Until Jon refused his part of the truce, of course.

5. Was Tyrion planning on Cersei killing him so Dany could burn down the Red Keep? He sure riled her up, even though he tried to apologize. Does he also care about her unborn baby? Also, volanqar teased. Could he have been planning on killing her?

6. Cersei did a good job of convincing Dany and gang that she'd fight with them, even though it's a big fat lie.

7. The Sansa-Littlefinger-Arya plot was a mess, but at least they did end up banding together to kill the slimeball. Littlefinger looked shocked for possibly the first time in his life. Without all his schemes and manipulations, he broke down rather quickly. I wonder if Arya will wear his face.

8. When they were discussing how to get to Winterfell, that would have been the perfect time for Jon to ride Rhaegal. But no, they decided to f*** on the ship instead.

9. Theon is finally getting his confidence back. His conversation with Jon and later the fight with the Ironborn captain were both satisfying.

10. Jaime is finally seeing how much of a monster Cersei is. Good for him! Too bad they didn't follow through on volanqar again, but I'm glad he got out of her clutches. Also, this is the second time Cersei refused to follow through on her bluff to kill a brother.

11. I do like how they revealed the whole Jon is a Targaryen thing, Sam and Bran played off each other well, but it did have its problems.
a) Rhaegar looked way too much like Vicerys for me. Couldn't they have done his hair a little differently?
b) Why name Jon Aegon? Was this after the other baby Aegon was supposed smashed to bits by the Mountain? Or does Rhaegar have two sons named Aegon? And it also messes up the book storyline with [spoiler] Young Griff and company, aka the real Aegon Targaryen, who (surprise!) wasn't killed by the Mountain due to Varys's cunning plots. Unless this is just another way of the show meshing book characters together. [/spoiler]

12. Urgh. I hate hate hate undead Viscerion! Even more now. Not only is he under command of the Night King, he's not even an Ice Dragon! He spews blue fire, and the heat from that would probably melt the Night King sitting on his back. And he has holes in his wings. You can't fly with holes in your wings. Oh, and he broke the Wall. Grrrr.

13. Are Tormund and Beric dead? Their chances of surviving that avalanche of the Wall seem pretty slim, but it didn't show their bodies, so maybe they made it out?

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

1. I liked their bonding as well. They are both seasoned warriors and they understand it was nothing personal, so it makes sense that there'd be no bad blood between them.

2. The Hound really hates his brother, but I think it'd still be a bit sad to see what they'd turned him into.

3. The whole thing with Euron leaving seemed weird to me. But that plan also seems weird to me. The whole Euron storyline is just weird lol.

4. Jon really does know nothing. He just sucks at the whole "political game". But I liked that whole scene.

5. I'm not sure what happened there, but I think he does care for all his nieces and nephews. Was volanqar the prophesy? What did it say /I forget/?

6. Just when I though Cersei is finally getting some sense into her, she goes and does something stupid. Good luck ruling over The Land of the Dead.

7. Finally they kill Littlefinger. At least something good came out of that whole mess of a storyline...

8. I agree with the reasons for not flying there. The northern lords /and people/ need to see that Jon and Dany are in an alliance. I had a slight problem with the romantic incest, though.

9. Theon might just get redeemed by the end of this. I like that he's still visibly traumatised, but fights through it.

10. Jaime finally quitting on Cersei was very satisfying. All she ever did was stomp on him, not to mention that she's going to get a whole lot more people killed with her pigheadedness.

11. For a moment I really thought it was the actor that played Vicerys. I don't know why they named him Aegon and he doesn't look like an Aegon anyway lol. Maybe it was just Lyanna that decided that, to honor his Targaryen side. But I also forget who the other Aegon was, so...

...

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

...

12. I agree. This not-ice dragon seems even more powerful that the normal dragons and it melted the Wall with no problem. It was just too easy.

13. I don't much care for Beric, but I want Tormund and Brianne to have giant babies, so I do hope they're not dead. And it would be a shame to kill those two off screen.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

1. Good point. And it was especially nice that they bonded over Arya.

2. Hm. Maybe.

3. Yeah, they made Euron into a caricature.

4. Very true.

5. Except Joffrey. I don't think he liked Joffrey very much. Tommen and Marcella were sweet. The volanqar prophesy was part of what Maggie the Frog said to Cersei; that the volanqar (little brother) would strangle her to death. Something like that. It might not even have been in the show.

6. Yep.

7. Agreed.

8. I suppose so. I just want Jon to fly a dragon, haha.

9. I hope so. I love Alfie Allen's acting abilities.

10. Very true.

11. The other Aegon was Elia and Rhaegar's infant son, who the Mountain smashed to a pulp. Glad I wasn't the only one who thought Rhaegar looked so much like Vicerys!

12. Yes.

13. Lol, true.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I think the volanqar is about where I am in the books, so I might not have read the whole thing yet. But I don't remember if it was mentioned on the show either.

Thanks for clarifying both my questions!

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

2: Houndie still hates his brother, but he also hates the kind of people who'd turn a fighting man into a voiceless monster.

3: I don't see how Euron's exit could have been planned. He had no clue about the zombies, and Cersei gained nothing from having her chief military supporter leave. Maybe she made him an offer he couldn't refuse as he was packing to leave, his own weight in gold if he ran one last errand or something.

5: If you're ever going to deliberately rile up a sociopathic relative who really hates you, do it with a trained dragon backing you up.

7: I still think Littlefinger's whining was an attempt to manipulate Sansa, not genuine feeling. And Arya could certainly use his face to kill Cersei, and probably would if the North hadn't just been invaded by someone else.

8: I agree, Dany and Jon should have flown in on the dragon. If they'd done that, everyone up North would be so overawed that everything would be forgiven.

11b: Jon/Aegon was born after both his father and brother were dead, it seems that Lyanna named her fatherless baby after a murdered half-sibling. And don't get me started on Young Griff/Aegon Sr./Perkin Warbeck! His survival in the books creates a huge plot hole - why the hell did Illyrio Mopatis give those rare and precious dragon eggs to Danerys, not to Aegon or Viserys? illyrio knew them both, and knew they were both ahead of Danerys in the line of succession.

12: Undead Viscerion is WAY COOL!!! And of course it would be the dragon named after Viserys who became a problem.

13: Tormund is too popular to die off camera, so I think he'll survive and run to Winterfell or Castle Black and raise the alarm. Dondarion may survive as well, just to give Tormund someone to discuss his actions with.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

»I don't see how Euron's exit could have been planned. He had no clue about the zombies«

I agree. IF they had planned in advance that Euron would storm off for some reason, if’d be a bit too convenient that Team Targaryen comes up with the perfect excuse to do so.

»Maybe she made him an offer he couldn't refuse as he was packing to leave, his own weight in gold if he ran one last errand or something.«

I agree again – that this is the only explanation I can think of that makes _a_bit_ of sense. But not really: When a guy like Euron is not only frightened at all, but frightened enough to admit it freely in front of a bunch of people, I don’t think that anyone could come up with any offer that makes him postpone his trip to a supposedly safe place. Especially given the thought gold doesn’t do you any good when you’re restricted to the Iron Islands because all of Westeros is occupied by the White Walkers… AND given the thought that those guys don’t ever pay the »gold price« but the »iron price« only.

(And btw, I said »supposedly« because I don’t think that an island is a safe place. While we know that the wights can’t swim, I’m sure they’re able to build ships under the guidance of the Night King.)

Of course, Euron might have _said_ that he’s going to fetch the Gold Company so that Cersei lets him go, but sailed for the Iron Island nonetheless… but somehow, I’ve got the feeling that won’t happen.

»Tormund is too popular to die off camera«

Yes.
But his on-camera death might be the one when he is turned from being dead to being REALLY dead.
In other words, I’m sure that we’ll see him again, but maybe only being a wight.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Funny thing... I don't think the wights can swim, but they can walk along the bottom of the ocean to a destination, because they don't need to breathe, and their White Walker masters can probably freeze the ocean and make a freeway to an island. So IMHO the Iron Islands are definitely in the danger zone!

No, anyone who wants to run had better head for Essos or the Summer Isles.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

Oh yes! They don’t even NEED to build ships! Didn’t think of that.

Regarding Essos: That’s a thing that I’ve thought about lately… Is Essos safe?
Surely a lot safer than Westeros, but in the long run? Once the WW have conquered all of Westeros, what would stop them to continue to Essos?
Which again brought me to the question: Has it ever been mentioned if Essos is affected by winter the same way? Or how hard the winters get in those southern places?
Is it more like »Oh, bit chilly today« or do they get snow and ice as well?
Are they called »Summer Isles« because they NEVER had winter?

And moreover…
Has it been mentioned if there were winters at all before the White Walkers were created?
Or have ALL winters been connected to the existence of the WW, even those which came when the WW weren’t awake?
Maybe the change of seasons always happened when the WW were going from deep sleep to light sleep… ;-)

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

2: Is the Mountain really mute or just not allowed to speak? Qyburn said the Mountain took a vow of silence until all Cersei's enemies are defeated or something. You do have a point there, though.

3: Hm. That's possible.

5: 😂

7: Possibly.

8: Yes! Agreed!

11: Thank you for clearing that up. And yeah, not sure how much I buy the Young Griff storyline. Maybe he gave the eggs to Dany because he thought she was vulnerable and needed something to get her through the marriage? Viserys was definitely jealous of that, lol.

12: Agree with the second part about Viscerion being the problem child, but disagree utterly on how cool that is.

13: Fingers crossed.

[–] Janeparker87 (21) 7 years ago

1. I liked it but it went by so fast I almost missed it. As other people have said, they know it wasn't personal. No hard feelings.
2. Not sure I liked how he just walked past everybody without anyone reacting. Also, he might still have some kind of affection for his brother, deep deep down.

3. I think it was planned. Otherwise Cersei would be bluffing, right? I don't think she was.

4. I loved how Cersei kept her posture despites being terrified. But Jon had to be all about integrity.

5. I was very confused by that part. Only thing I got from it is that Cersei doesn'r really seem capable of killing family members, regardless of how much she loathes them.

6. I think it was/will be a mistake on her part, but she's amazing. I love Cersei. no shame. Of course I wanted her to join them, but I love that she has figurative balls.

7. I thought it was very predictable. There's no way Arya's behaviour last ep. could have been anything other than a way of fooling him. I knew the second Arya entered the room that Sansa would call LF's name. I didn't feel strongly about it one way or the other.

8. Let's not even go there. GoT should be above this "shipping" crap. Plus, did you forget about Ygritte already Jon? And Dany, what about your "moon and stars"? It's not that they're f*cking that bothers me, it's that they appear to be instantly in love. Plus, more incest. Great! I hate this with a passion.

9. Yes! Most satisfying moment of the finale for me! I want Theon to do well.

10. I'm glad Jaime is starting to be less of a coward, I really like the character. That scene had me scared, it would have been the biggest shock ever if Cersei had him killed. But I was 99% sure she wouldn't.

11. Maybe the problem here is that everybody who visits these boards already knew this, so it just wasn't that big of a reveal for me. I guess Rheagar looked like Viserys because these are the Targaryens we're talking about: incest.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

2. Yeah. I feel like it would have been more believable if they met before everyone was gathered and ready. Like as people are still shuffling around getting where they need to be.

3. But how would he know that they were bringing something that would terrify him? Qyburn's little birds?

4. You could still tell she was taken aback.

5. I think it's more the threat of dragons that prevented her from killing him. But it is strange that she refused to follow through on her bluff with both brothers.

7. Predictable or not, it's good to see him gone.

8. Well, they both lost their previous lovers and I think we can assume it's been at least a few years since they did. And it's not as bad as brother-sister incest.

9. Go Theon!

10. Yes, Jaime has come far.

11. Good point.

[–] Janeparker87 (21) 7 years ago

(Didn't let me write the last 2 for some reason)
12. I hate hate hate how people are so shocked with the damned dead dragon (not aiming at OP specifically, just in general). I mean, did I see a special edition of ep. 6? Did nobody notice the dragon being killed and then "revived" by the Night King, opening it's big blue eye? What were people expecting would happen next? That the dragon would sit at home and knit? Honestly, it didn't surprise me at all. I didn't like this finale - I know, the cheese stands alone -, it was all politics and nothing really moved forward. They didn't have Cersei's help; they still don't have it. I hate Dany and Jon, it's like I'm watching a teen drama. The dialogue seemed to have been gone downhill since they stopped following the source material. I wonder how much GGRM is still involved. The dragon melting the Wall was so obvious to me I don't understand the shock. It was all politics and I was expecting some big fight and a lot more plot developpment.

13. Now this is what I worry about. That Wall came down too fast. I need Tormund to be alive!

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

[–] Janeparker87 (21) 7 years ago

12. I don't know what you mean by the special edition, sorry. Yes, I know the Night King brought him back, and that's bad enough. But you don't seem to have gotten my point. It's not an Ice Dragon, which has been teased and hyped and would have been much cooler (pun intended). It shouldn't be able to fly with all those holes.
The series has definitely gone downhill without the books as a guide.

I'm not disagreeing with you about all the things that are "wrong" with the dragon, nor was my rant aimed at you specifically. It's just that I've been seeing everywhere people reacting in shock to the dragon melting the Wall, like this was the first time they've seen it (the shock doesn't seem to be about the blue fire instead of ice, it seems to be about the fact that there is a dead dragon!). Hence the irony in saying I saw a special edition: everyone saw the end of episode 6. Everyone knows there is now a dead dragon. So why the shock when it reappears again this ep.? That's what I don't get...

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

Actually, I enjoyed the politics for a change in this episode. What I disliked this season were all the battles, that seemed to come out of nowhere and were glossed over /I'm generalising here/. But I agree, it's just not the same since they ran out of books.

As for the dragon. I wasn't shocked that it was there. That was expected. But I _was_ puzzled by that blue fire! Is it blue because things turn blue once the NK resurrects beings? Is it blue because it's hotter? Why is it hotter now that the dragon is dead? And fire melting ice isn't a shock either, but it happened in minutes... It was like a gas jet. I don't remember the live dragons being able to keep a flame going this long /maybe they hadn't had the need? or it has happened?/. And those holes...

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

There is just so much wrong with the undead dragon. 😤

I hope GRRM handles the plot better in the books, whenever he finishes and releases the next one.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

I agree. I guess much of it could be chalked up to just the way they stylised it. It's dead and dead things decay, so holes... They had to distinguish it from the other two dragons, so blue flames, since blue is NK's colour. But those stylistic choices lead to practical questions. Yes, it's magic, but still...

And I'm not holding my breath for those two last books reaching my shelf anytime soon. GRRM seems like King Procrastinator.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Maybe. But if it was stylistic, they could have just made him an Ice Dragon, breathing ice, covered in ice. That would have made it almost worth it.

GRRM doesn't like deadlines. And he could have written himself into a hole or two or three. I'll just be happy whenever it does reach bookshelves.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

You really want that Ice Dragon! :P

Honestly, I don't remember where or if Ice Dragons were mentioned, but if they were a separate breed, maybe they died out like the other dragons /well, most/, and you can't make one out of a dead one?

Who knows, maybe when we see it in action versus the live dragons, it'll be worth it then.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Yes. It'd be better than an undead one, at least. But yeah, they are probably a separate breed. Oh well.

The Ice Dragon was a separate short story, not quite part of ASoIaF books.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

Ah, that may have something to do with it. I don't know how much stuff they take from the side stories...

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

Well, I didn’t have any problems with Wildfire being green, so I don’t mind blue wight dragon fire…

As for the holes in the wings… yeah, it’s unrealistic. But then again, there were a lot of wights who looked like they couldn’t tabke another step without crumbling to dust, yet they didn’t. So I figured, there’s some kind of magic bond that keeps them together.
Think of it as the magic equivalent to a SciFi »force field« – and if that force field covers the wings, he still can fly.

(Yeeeeees, I’m rationalizing… but honestly, things like that don’t bother me a lot. Otherwise, I could enjoy neither Fantasy nor SciFi.)

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Hmm... I guess there could be some kind of magical "glue" or "patch" keeping the wights together and the dragon afloat, but that's still pushing it. I guess it's the best we'll get.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

Yes, good point about the other wights. That did cross my mind.

And you are correct, some rationalasing is needed to enjoy these genres /which I do/. But I also enjoy tangents about silly stuff lol.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

Regarding the holes in the wings: Please remember that it'd be physically impossible for dragons to fly anyway. They're the size of a herd of elephants, an office building, a pod of blue whales... would a pair of wings be enough to lift a herd of elephants off the ground? Dragon flight has to involve a certain amount of magic to make flight possible in the first place, so maybe it takes a little more magic to get a dragon with holes in its wings off the ground, I'm sure the NK can come up with enough.

Regarding the blue flame, perhaps it wasn't fire, perhaps it was the kind of super-cold that makes everything it touches shatter? Because the Wall wasn't melting, it was shattering, but beyond that i'm lost. Totally not my field.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

I'm still not buying that. It reminds me of that intro to the Bee Movie: "According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly. It's wings are too small to get its fat little body off the ground. The bee, of course, flies anyway, because bees don't care what humans think is impossible." Dragons would care even less what humans think.

Remember that dragons are most likely full of hot air due to their fire-breathing abilities, and their wings are proportional to their bodies.

And the blue stuff sure looked like fire to me...

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

If you want to know more about the physics of dragon existence, I recommend the book "Guards, Guards" by Terry Pratchett, it's part of his "Discworld" series but works as a stand-alone. Among other fun stuff, it discusses how dragons would have to work! The physics of bee flight have now been figured out, but dragons the size of Drogon are just too heavy to fly with wing power. And no, dragons are probably not filled with hot air or fire, they're more likely to be filled with natural chemical glands and some sort of ignition system. Or a pilot light.

And really, does anyone know anything about supercold, if applied with force?

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

You know what, the holes still bother me slightly, but if those horses are still operational, and they're pretty much skeletons, so can the dragon I guess. We're out the the realm of reality anyway...

As for the blue... thing, I still think it's fire. It looked like fire for one thing. And, I don't know that much about ice in the form of the gigantic wall, but the "flame" was targeting a portion of it. Just enough to break the integrity of the construction. After that it just toppled, it didn't really melt /and I don't remember what I said about it above, so I might be contradicting myself lol/.

But, is there a thing in the real world that jets out super cold in such fashion? This is a genuine question.

None of this is my field either, but it is fun to speculate :)

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

It's SO not my field, but I'm pretty sure that nobody in the modern world has weaponized supercold, or can project deadly cold like a flame thrower.

We also don't know whether the zombie dragon breathes hot or cold, and we don't know exactly what the Wall is made of - there's some magic involved in its construction and for all we know the dragon was destroying the magic as well as the ice. All I know for sure is it looked WAY COOL on my big-screen TV.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

Yeah, with magic in the mix, all our speculation is a bit... pointless. And there is magic all over the place. The NK, The Wall, the dragons /dead or alive/.

And it did look cool on the big screen TV. But why was it blue! LOL /OK, I'm done with the blue stuff now :D/

[–] Volley (3433) 7 years ago

Does anyone know if Jaime left King's Landing with any of the Lannister Forces that he was briefing only moments earlier about heading north to Winterfell, or did Cersei take control of them somehow after he stormed off?

With Jaime leaving King's Landing by himself, I suspect it's the latter.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

Why »somehow«?
Cersei’s the queen, of course she IS in command. Jaime was just like a General who forwards her commands.

[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 7 years ago

It looked to me that he was very alone when he rode off into the snowfall.

Unless some of the soldiers commit treason or desert or mutiny, or whatever you'd use in this case, Cersei is still their leader. They'd follow her. But I'm not sure he even tried to get them to go North, though. He seemed over it /in a disappointed kind of way/.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

He was definitely alone. There might have been some part of the army that started marching ahead of him, but I doubt it.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

By all rights, now that he's out of the kingsguard, he should have claimed his rights as lord of the Westerlands, Warden of the West, and totally in charge of the Lannister forces. But if the queen wanted to take all those rights and privileges for herself, the rightful lord can't do much about it, unless he wants to start another civil war. {Really, that's how things were done in a world without a legal system!)

So no, he's got nothing of his own, Cersei has taken everything that should belong to him or Tyrion, or to the collective Lannister family. Jamie doesn't even have any allies of his own, he's spent his life so enmeshed with her that he's never made anything for himself.

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

13. Are Tormund and Beric dead? Their chances of surviving that avalanche of the Wall seem pretty slim, but it didn't show their bodies, so maybe they made it out?

I suspect that Beric is alive because he was resurrected so many times for a reason, as Thoros said in one of the episodes, while observing Eastwatch in the flames. He still has a mission to accomplish. Tormund was close to Beric when the Wall collapsed, so he might also be alive.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

Ah, but Beric is also on his last life since Thoros isn't around to revive him. Unless Melisandre pops up to resurrect him. You could have a point, though.

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

Since there are no Thoros or Melisandre around to ressurect Beric, I think he won't die, at least not until he does the thing he's supposed to do. After that, he's on his own.

[–] Janeparker87 (21) 7 years ago

One of the things I used to love about GoT was that it didn't follow the traditional "norms". So, just like in real life a person who has always suffered isn't guaranteed a life of happiness afterwards (some people suffer their whole lives and then just die), I would kind of love if Beric just died, and there was no reason after all. But that's just me being grimm and bored that the show doesn't do this kind of thing anymore, so he'll probably live. As for Tormund, I'm much more invested in his character and I'll be pissed if he reappears as a wight.

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

But the situation with Beric is not typical for GOT. He keeps living because Lord of Light wants him to.

I doubt that Lord of Light would make an effort to keep him alive, only to give up on him right before Beric's mission is completed. That's why I think he is still alive.

[–] Janeparker87 (21) 7 years ago

Random thought that I don't think deserves its own thread so I'll post it here: Poor ser Jorah, knowing the woman he's loved forever will apparently sleep with anyone but him. That's not even being friendzoned, it's torture. But the man needs to find some self-respect and get over her already.

[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 7 years ago

That's why his nickname is Ser Friendzone. Dany will never love him romantically despite his deep love for her. I do feel kinda bad for him. Then again, their age difference is icky.

[–] TexasJack (12516) 6 years ago

My #1 Season 8 question is: Do we get Leia back?