After taking the casterly rock, gray worm look in to the sea and watch the collisions of the ships.There are so many iron born ships and other kinds of ships with different flags(i'm confused) fight each other. Are those eroun grayjoy's fleet or the other half of the theon grajoy's fleet which carry the unsullied to this castle?? Please enlighten me.......
shareDany's fleet was mixed with Ironborn, Dornish ships, plus whatever she captured from the slavers (those were painted black with Targaryen sails). A lot of them were destroyed last week, what was down there in this episode were the few from Dany's fleet that were used to carry the Unsullied to Casterly Rock. Euron was destroying those ships, and this means Grey Worm and his soldiers will have to go from west to east on foot to get back to either Dragonstone or King's Landing.
shareThanks for elaboration. It's really hard to understand those things by watching a scene for a few seconds without any audible dialogue/explanation. Whats going wrong with this series now!
shareSome of it is due to cutting down the episodes, but also some of it I believe is intentional. Like they want the audience to share the confusion or surprise with the characters. The promos made it look like Dany was easily going to conquer Westeros, but in the full episode we see things are not going as planned. We see Grey Worm take over Casterly Rock, then he is confused because he expected to fight the whole Lannister army, then he asks the guy where they are. He says this to get the audience asking the same question when they appear in the very next scene. In the final scene, Jaime explains to Olenna what's happened.
shareIt was another pitifully written scene where the writers just remove what should be gigantic obstacles with one quick flicker in their race to the finale. Maybe that's why you found it hard to understand what was going on.
shareThe whole "sailing to the Casterly Rock" idea doesn't make sense to me. Dragonstone and Casterly Rock are on the opposite sides of Westeros which means that Daenerys' fleet had to sail all around the continent to get there. It must've taken them at least a month.
I don't know what military genius thought it was a good idea to go to such a long journey just to strike Lannisters' home castle which isn't even an important step in conquering the Westeros. Tyrion must've had personal vendetta clouding his judgement when he proposed this maneuver.
As I’ve said in another thread, Tyrion probably thought there’s a lot of gold in Casterly Rock, because he didn’t know that the Lannister mines ran dry. And a lot of gold is handy when you’re in war.
A personal vendetta could’ve been a part of his thinking, yes, but all the others in the room – Olenna Tyrell, Ellaria Sand, Davos Seaworth – didn’t disagree, so they must’ve thought that taking Casterly Rock is important.
Olenna and Ellaria aren't exactly military geniuses either. I don't know why Davos didn't protest.
But as far as gold is concerned: Cersei said to banker from Braavos that gold wins wars, and he replied that she doesn't have any left, but her enemies the Tyrells are rich. So, Daenerys didn't have to invade some far away castle just to get gold when her ally Olenna is loaded. Plus, Iron Bank wouldn't mind investing in Daenerys' war efforts either.
And if Tyrion's plan was to conquer Casterly Rock to cut off Cersei's gold supply, he must've known that she doesn't have much left because when he was a hand of the king, he noticed from the books that the kingdom is broke (if I remember correctly).
Okay, I’ll agree about Ellaria, but Olenna isn’t exactly stupid.
And yes, she’s rich, but Tyrion probably thought that it’s better to have some own gold instead of relying on the Tyrells… scratch that, instead of relying on Olenna (there are no other Tyrells left, at least apparently none worth mentioning). Tyrion is wise enough not to trust Olenna any more than needed for the task at hand.
»when he was a hand of the king, he noticed from the books that the kingdom is broke«
Yes, he did, but those were the kingdom’s books – not the Lannister’s books.
And of course, just like you said, it’s Davos who really has the experience.
IF Davos would’ve doubted the plan, I think he at least would’ve made some snappy comment about personal vendettas when he’s alone with Tyrion.
But well… the way they’re rushing the story now, it gets harder and harder to explain things logically. So maybe it’s just a plot hole after all.
Davos didn't know that both kingdom and Lannisters were broke. Maybe he thought it would be a good idea to cut off Cersei's gold supply.
But still, they took a huge risk considering how far away Casterly Rock is. I wouldn't have anything against their plan if Casterly Rock was closer and more reachable. It's clear that the plan was made up by modern screenwriters who have no clue that distance was a big factor in medieval times. I wish they asked some US army general for advice before writing it this way.
He wanted Casterly Rock because he knew it would hurt Cersei and Jaime to take away their home. Their father drilled that kind of thinking in them, and Tyrion knew what happened when he thought Robb Stark was going to attack there- they moved most of the Lannister soldiers there to defend it and Robb attacked somewhere else. Except this time Jaime swallowed his pride enough to let them take it. Something Tyrion did not expect.
shareMaybe they wanted to free edmure tully!! Lol. Remember the deal Jaime made with him in the show? Lol. No? Lol.
The show is pure fan fiction now. It's viewership is through the roof and it's still gaining viewers as a result of its shift towards high production value and simpler storylines. Tyrion has shown himself on every level to be a terrible military strategist. The worst westeros has ever seen.
He thought ellaria sand could control the dornish army. Wrong.
He thought yara was a good ally even though she was in a civil war with traitors all around her. Wrong.
He thought casterly rock was a good idea despite knowing the Lannisters are broke. Wrong.
He thought the tyrells would be a useful addition militarily but ignored their vast riches and resources. Horribly stupid.
Martin will not release another novel until this crap is done with
Tyrion made every mistake in the book. He should really stick to governing and finances and stay away from military decisions. It's too bad that all the experienced military commanders Daenerys had are either dead or gone. If Jorah doesn't come back quickly, she's doomed.
P.S. I thought that Edmure is still in Frey's dungeons. Is he in Casterly Rock now? I lost track of him.
Season 6 episode 8 Jaime convinced edmure that if he surrenders riverrun to the lannisters and freys, edmure can be reunited with his wife and son and live out his days at casterly rock. This is why edmure ordered his men to give up riverrun. The blackfish went down fighting. But presumably edmure would now be at casterly rock. This is only 6 episodes ago.
I completely agree that Tyrion didn’t fare quite well… ;-)
BUT:
»He thought ellaria sand could control the dornish army. Wrong.«
Ellaria didn’t have a chance to control the dornish army, so we don’t know how well or bad she would’ve done.
»He thought casterly rock was a good idea despite knowing the Lannisters are broke. Wrong.«
Where and when did Tyrion gain the knowledge that the Lannisters are broke?
»He thought the tyrells would be a useful addition militarily but ignored their vast riches and resources.«
I don’t quite understand what you’re saying here. The weren’t good militarily, okay – Olenna said so herself. But what about their riches and resources? Do you mean that there was no need to take Casterly Rock because they had enough riches, through Olenna Tyrell? Or are you saying something else?
1) ellaria sand was a bastard who murdered (in the show) the dornish royalty that was beloved by all of dorne. There is absolutely no reason to think she had the control of the dornish forces. If she did, great. But no reason to believe her and risk the entire plan on it.
2). Tyrion finds out earlier in the show that lannisters are broke. I don't know exactly what episode. But it's been discussed as nauseum on this thread and many others. All the lannisters knew they were broke. It was a major plot point a few seasons ago.
3)olenna says they aren't strong fighters. Yet tyrion plan hinges on tyrells and dornish laying siege to kings landing. Rather than having olenna go to the iron bank or hire a massive army like stannis did with their money. He decides to use the tyrells to lay siege to kings landing. Dumb dumb dumb. Especially considering the dornish army was anything but in the pocket. Ellaria murdered the highest commander of the dornish forces.
It was horrible on every level.
And back to olenna. She tells dany that tyrion is not as smart as he thinks he is. She also makes a loud remark during tyrions battle plans about ellaria being untrustworthy ally. Then she caps it off last episode by saying she knew her forces were not good fighters. She implored dany to "be a dragon" and attack. Tyrion was the architect of such a disaster that it begs the question who is he loyal to
»Tyrion finds out earlier in the show that lannisters are broke. I don't know exactly what episode. But it's been discussed as nauseum on this thread and many others. All the lannisters knew they were broke. It was a major plot point a few seasons ago.«
Sorry, I disagree here.
Tywin told Cersei that the Lannister mines ran dry, and she was surprised. That was in S4E05, I just checked.
At that point, Tyrion was already in custody waiting for his trial by combat.
Tyrion knew quite well that the Crown’s broke, because he was master of coin. But as far as I remember (and I rewatched season 1 to 6 just before the start of S7) there was never a hint that Tyrion knew about the Lannisters being broke.
I’ll believe that Tyrion knew when you (or somebody else) points me to the episode where he learns it.
The crown IS the lannisters. Or so I thought. Maybe not though. Good point.
shareNo, the Crown is The Crown and the Lannisters are an entirely separate faction. The Crown owes the Lannisters as the Lannisters loaned money to the Crown. The Crown is broke and because of the war and the loaning of money to the Crown and dried up mines, the Lannisters are broke. The Crown has to pay the Iron Bank. Like in the UK there is The Crown and the Queen herself has an entirely separate fortune that belongs to the Windsors.
shareNo, they’re not.
In the first meeting of the Small Council that we saw (when Ned just had become the Hand) Baelish mentioned that the crown is in debt to the Lannisters.
I have to admit that I forgot about that too, and thought that as master of coin, Tyrion’ll be respnsible for the Lannister finances. But then there was a scene in which Bronn said that Tywin surely would release the crown from all debts now that is grandson is king, and Tyrion replied that his father would never release any debt (or something similar). That was when I remembered what Baelish had said.
Edit:
Ooops! I was too slow, now Eddym123 has replied already replied…
English isn’t my native language, so I always need some time in replying.
Eddym is a troll
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