Legacy Ruined? - Chuck (2007) Discussion

[–] MurphAndTheMagicTones 10 years ago

Regarding the beginning of season 3, you're certainly not alone. Schwartz and Fedak were wrongly fearful of the "Moonlighting Curse," so they decided to drive Chuck and Sarah apart, reasoning that putting them together would ruin the show. Obviously the opposite happened. In fairness, at that time they thought they were only going to get 13 episodes, so they probably figured "vs. the Other Guy" was their finale, and that would have been a helluva finale. But then they got 6 more episodes, which is why season 3 is a tale of two seasons. Season 4 was like that also, with the split occurring at "vs. the Push Mix."

As for season 5, I think it only ruins the show if you don't think Chuck and Sarah got back together. And the signs pointed more towards them getting back together than not. Would I have done things differently? Sure. But this wasn't like How I Met Your Mother, where they basically spat in the face of the original concept, or Dexter, where the show degraded so quickly the bad finale was almost an afterthought. At the end of the series, Chuck and Sarah were together. Would Sarah get back all of her memories? Hopefully. But certainly she was getting them back (Chuck would be dead if she hadn't), and it still ends with them kissing on the beach.

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"Cigarette?"
"Yes, I know."---Police Squad! (in color)

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[–] martraynor 10 years ago

Yeah, I get what you're saying. And I have read A LOT of commentary from others that is incredibly insightful, thoughtful and downright deep. And I've read interviews with Fedak, and most indicate (including Fedak) that they end up together, which I choose to think they do.

I also like to think that she gets her memories back (to those who say that Morgan didn't get his back, I say that Sarah is different, as proved by the fact that she is the only person to have not died when the Norseman was set on her in season 4, so why can't she be the only person to get her memories back? And beside, we all know how special Sarah is anyway).

It's just hard to watch some of those great Chuck/Sarah moments throughout, and realize that at show's end, she doesn't have the benefit of remembering them. It just kind of stings a little for me.

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[–] Scorpion_Deathlock 10 years ago

Magic Tone; 48 of your recent posts of 50 about Big Bang Theory? Did you suffer a recent BANG to your head? LOL.

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[–] MurphAndTheMagicTones 10 years ago

So, I'm not allowed to talk about other shows I watch? See, unlike you, I only post on shows I like because I don't feel the need to belittle other people over the shows they watch. Now you may want to insult people left and right, but I guess I consider that a waste of time.

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"This...is gettin' good."---The Geek, Sixteen Candles

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[–] Scorpion_Deathlock 10 years ago

Be little? Who is little here? You or me?

"A story of a man that built a rocket and went to the Moon. I think his name was Apollo Creed"

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[–] MurphAndTheMagicTones 10 years ago

Well, I'm not the one who stalked somebody over to another board and attacked them there, am I.

And I haven't seen a single comment you've made about Chuck itself, so I'm thinking you're not here because of the show.

Oh, and a haircut doesn't make your hair look fake. Of course, had Kaley worn a wig for the show like she offered, you'd probably complain about how fake that is, too.

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"This...is gettin' good."---The Geek, Sixteen Candles

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[–] Scorpion_Deathlock 10 years ago

I really liked Chuck, but then it became "that relationship show". Plus it was overkill with Linda Hamilton/Tim Dalton.

"A story of a man that built a rocket and went to the Moon. I think his name was Apollo Creed"

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[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ninthcentury 9 years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfgYeLjER14

imho anyone who watches that show has suffered a massive BANG to their humour-sophistication center. That is to say, they'll laugh at anything as long as the laugh track does so first.

Always feel free to attack someone as a substitute for thinking.

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[–] MurphAndTheMagicTones 9 years ago

And you felt the need to come onto a completely separate board and bitch about it. Yeah, audience laughter really ruined shows like Seinfeld, Cheers, Friends, M*A*S*H, and The Honeymooners. Oh, wait...

Not to mention what a massive hypocrite you are given your signature line.

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"Revenge is a dish best served nude."---Sheldon, The Big Bang Theory

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[–] F6Pilot 10 years ago

Season 2 was great. First of all Fulcrum was probably the only time they really bothered to define the villains, who they were, what they wanted, and what they were about. The Ring was never as well defined, and Volkoff was not much more then a personal vendetta. Season 5 gave us three villains in a row with Decker-Shaw-Quinn! Yeeesh!

Season 2 also rocked because it was just the right amount of will they/wont they love angst between Chuck and SArah.... in fact season 3 wouldn't had been so enraging if season 2 hadn't been so good.

Season 4 is a whole season of CHuck and Sarah being together as a powerful battle couple.It's so awesome that it's probably my favorite season.

You're right. 3 is mostly a chore to watch until we get to The Other Guy. And 5 has some highlights, but once you know what's coming at the end its almost impossible to enjoy.

There are a few things in 5 that I treasure. I like how even though she's married to Chuck, Sarah is always the more ruthless and brutal of the two - I like the knowing look she gives Casey at the end of Business Trip when she knows, and Casey knows that Viper will have to be killed ... but she doesn't tell Chuck. I kind of like the flashback with the baby, where Sarah fries the roomful of thugs, since Sarah doesn't get to do quite as much asskicking in 5 as she does in the earlier seasons.

"Whiskey for my men! And beer for my horses!"

T. Keith

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[–] moggraider 10 years ago

All the griping about the ending that users on this board do had me worried. But I finally finished the series today, and it seems pretty clear to me that they get back together. I don't get what the big problem is. She regains some memories pretty quickly in the last episode, and at the end of the episode, everything seems like it'll turn out great.

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[–] martraynor 10 years ago

I had read ahead, too, and put off watching the end for weeks because of all the negative comments. Comments which I found, for the most part, to be true (or at least that I agree with).

I, too, think that Chuck and Sarah end up together, but mostly for three reasons: 1) Because Chris Fedak said as much in an interview after the finale, 2)Because unlike throughout the rest of the last two episodes, she finally decides she wants to hear their story and kiss Chuck, and most importantly, 3) Because I NEED to believe that they get back together.

But the argument that she's getting her memories back doesn't hold water with me, because except for remembering that she wrote their names in the door frame, every other "memory" is only a mechanical memory, like signing your name. She rearranges the cups in the Wienerliscious, but doesn't remember having worked there. She fixes Chuck's tie, but doesn't have any emotional attachment to it. She goes to the beach, but has no idea why. That's not getting your memories back in my book. Now I like to think that she will eventually get them back, but I'm not seeing it.

Those "memories" are more like habits or something she did by rote.

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[–] g-walterbush 10 years ago

I, too, initially struggled with the first half of Season 3 and the Season 5 finale arc. And while I still have issues with elements of the execution of Season 3, I have modified my assessments of these segments after many rewatches and placing them within the larger contexts. I devoted two separate chapters of my kindle book Unpacking "Chuck" (available on amazon) to these issues, along with 18 other chapters on other topics. You can read my full analysis there.

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[–] robble-1 10 years ago

I, too, had put off watching season 5 because of the negativity, but a friend convinced me to finish the series. I still love it.

As another poster said, the beginning of season 3 wouldn't have been so aggravating if season 2 hadn't been so awesome. But I loved it anyway. And I still enjoyed season 5 despite the whole Sarah loses her memory story line. I choose to believe that they will stay together because deep down inside Sarah has always wanted a home and Chuck is her home. She instinctively knows that although she doesn't remember it. I don't think she fully regains her memory, but I think she falls in love with Chuck all over again because really who wouldn't. Heh. I certainly fell in love with him. :-)

I'm cool, you're cool, we're cool, thank you, good night!-My Science Project

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[–] moonshine7171 9 years ago

But the argument that she's getting her memories back doesn't hold water with me, because except for remembering that she wrote their names in the door frame, every other "memory" is only a mechanical memory, like signing your name. She rearranges the cups in the Wienerliscious, but doesn't remember having worked there. She fixes Chuck's tie, but doesn't have any emotional attachment to it. She goes to the beach, but has no idea why. That's not getting your memories back in my book. Now I like to think that she will eventually get them back, but I'm not seeing it.

She also remembered the Irena Demova virus, which is a pretty specific memory, certainly not just a mechanical one.

I would disagree that going to the beach was just a mechanical memory, she goes there and remembers it's an important place to them, even if she doesn't yet recall specifically why.

I think you also have to take into account that it seems a pretty short amount of time had passed(we don't know specifically how long you was of hunting Quinn), and most of that time had been spent of trying to get her revenge, away from people and places that would trigger memories. I know in real life, of a person suffers significant memorie loss, it is best for them to be in familiar places surround them with people they were close with in hopes of unearthing those memories. I know it can also be a long process. In the short time she was back in that situation, she recovered a couple. Does that mean she will recover all? Not necessarily, but it is a sign she stands a good chance of recovering a significant portion of them. Maybe some more clearly than others, but I think the important thing is she recovers enough that she actually feels the emotions tied to those memories.

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[–] moonshine7171 9 years ago

But the argument that she's getting her memories back doesn't hold water with me, because except for remembering that she wrote their names in the door frame, every other "memory" is only a mechanical memory, like signing your name. She rearranges the cups in the Wienerliscious, but doesn't remember having worked there. She fixes Chuck's tie, but doesn't have any emotional attachment to it. She goes to the beach, but has no idea why. That's not getting your memories back in my book. Now I like to think that she will eventually get them back, but I'm not seeing it.

She also remembered the Irena Demova virus, which is a pretty specific memory, certainly not just a mechanical one.

I would disagree that going to the beach was just a mechanical memory, she goes there and remembers it's an important place to them, even if she doesn't yet recall specifically why.

I think you also have to take into account that it seems a pretty short amount of time had passed(we don't know specifically how long you was of hunting Quinn), and most of that time had been spent of trying to get her revenge, away from people and places that would trigger memories. I know in real life, of a person suffers significant memorie loss, it is best for them to be in familiar places surround them with people they were close with in hopes of unearthing those memories. I know it can also be a long process. In the short time she was back in that situation, she recovered a couple. Does that mean she will recover all? Not necessarily, but it is a sign she stands a good chance of recovering a significant portion of them. Maybe some more clearly than others, but I think the important thing is she recovers enough that she actually feels the emotions tied to those memories.

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[–] mcgill_j 9 years ago

what about remembering Irene Demova? That is a very very specfic memory tied to a) the model of the computer, and is a memory from the pilot. Its not mechanical as you'd call it. So yes, she starts with muscle memory.. she recognizes her own knife work. and she remembers a virus. Are those small things? Yes. But its a hint, a sense that things are beginning to come back to her.

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[–] robble-1 9 years ago

I agree

I'm cool, you're cool, we're cool, thank you, good night!-My Science Project

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[–] gigidygigidy7 10 years ago

i thought season 3 was great although it did start off pretty slow but it had some great episodes/moments. think about…in season 1 and 2 what did you want to happen? for chuck and sarah to get together. once they did the chase was over they needed to throw in some conflict. once they were together what did you want to happen? nothing really. everyone hated shaw but then it got you to want them to break up. i didnt really like when sarah moved to the dark side right when chuck was going to propose but it got us wanting her to come back. if it were all happy endings the show would get old really quick.

a lot of people hated the ending but i liked it. it was unpredictable and realistic. given that they were on the verge of getting canceled so many times i thought this series was great.

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[–] sjrenkola 10 years ago

Believe me, I feel the exact same way, mostly anyway. From the time Quinn showed up ruined it for me. I loved this show all the way through until Sarah lost her memories. I try to think that they had a happy ending & that Sarah got her memories back, but it doesn't work. Also, anytime I end up watching an episode from when they're together, all I can think of "well, at the end of the series, Sarah forgets all about this."

I know exactly what you me when you say "I can't explain why this silly little show has hit me so hard and affects me so much,but I can't stop thinking about it. "

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[–] TheSnappySneezer 10 years ago

I finished the whole series liked but agree about the end. We can assume that they get back together but if there is a telefilm, Sarah probably would have run away after the kiss or left after a few months or a year of trying to work it out, possibly also taking another assignment. Chuck will have an emotional block with the intersect leading to years of disuse and he and Morgan, having quit the buy more cover, Chuck having sold it, found themselves broke and unemployed and having to resort to taking their original jobs at the buymore again. Jeffster had a rise and fall in Germany and they too will have been returned to buymore. Chuck may sleep on Morgan's couch as a wallowing failure for the last few years. Then the film would play out like the whole series in in two hours with Chuck, Sara and Casey finding themselves involved in the same case falling in their laps, possibly intentionally so, Chuck regaining use of the Intersect and being a hero again and reuniting with Sara sort of, possibly a note of her regaining her memories while she was away but hiding that fact from Chuck because she feels that her remembering would hurt him somehow. Maybe she dropped off another baby with her mother.

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[–] Jaycicle 10 years ago

To be fair to Fredak and Schwartz Season 2 is as good as it was because they honestly didn't think they were getting a Season 3 so they blew the whole Fulcrum arc on what they initially thought was going to be a series finale not just a season finale. Of course that forced them to do soft reboot once they new they were getting renewed. Sadly there was nothing particularly soft about Season 3's reboot. You're not alone. It's most fan's least favourite series by far.

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[–] tut1971 10 years ago

The legacy wasn't betrayed but it sure took a few hits. No one can really question that abortion that was S3.1-S3.13 or the complete *beep* of S5.10-5.13 but the rest of the show was epically awesome. There were definitely more "umm...huh...what?" moments throughout the shows run than there should have been but overall it will always be in my personal top 5.

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[–] martraynor 10 years ago

I agree, but I still struggle after all this time to enjoy season 2 the way I did BEFORE watching season 3 for the first time.

I still watch season 2, still enjoy it, still love it even (except for the Cole episodes - despite his respect for Chuck, I can't stand how Sarah fawns over him).

I'm trying not to let the series finale ruin the legacy of the entire series for me. Sometimes "I" forget those last three episodes even happened...

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[–] Jaycicle 10 years ago

I think it's also the tonal shift in the first half of S3. Up till then Chuck and Sarah had been the most rounded and likable characters but in 3 Chuck spends most of the season as a whiny, angst ridden doofus and Sarah as an ice queen on the rebound with Shaw, both were about as watchable as a colonoscopy.

All I can say is thank god for the Ellie, Devon, Morgan, and Jeff & Lester B plots or season 3 simply wouldn't have been watchable until 3.13.

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[–] niks_foonts 10 years ago

I think a few episodes from the first half of season 3 work. Basically all the ones where they don't compound on Chuck's misery. I liked vs Angel de la Muerta, vs Operation Awesome, and vs First Class. vs the Beard, vs the American Hero, and vs the Other Guy were all pretty strong. So basically I'm 50-50 on the first half of season 3. Any episode which focused on Sarah and Shaw together was annoying.

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[–] martraynor 10 years ago

I agree, niks...with everything, including the episodes you call out.

Maybe I'm sexist, but it never bothered me as much when Chuck dated outside of Sarah as much as when Sarah looked/dated outside of Chuck. Maybe it's because Chuck declared and showed us more often his true feelings for Sarah. Although now that I say that, we pretty much knew her feelings for him the entire time, too, and she showed to what lengths she would go to save/protect him.

I don't know. Maybe it's a guy thing?

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[–] niks_foonts 10 years ago

Its because of the reason you mentioned. Chuck was always very honest about his feelings, not only to the audience but to Sarah as well. On the other hand, while we knew how Sarah felt for Chuck, it was tricky for him to know that because she behaved hot and cold with him in the first part of season 3. All he saw was Sarah getting close to Shaw, telling him secrets about her that she never told him etc... I don't think he genuinely knew that Sarah loved him until vs The Other Guy when she came to his house while he was drunk and miserable and told him that she had fallen for him back during the events of the pilot.

Also, with regards to Chuck's love interests vs Sarah's love interests, it helped a lot that Chuck's love interests seemed to be a lot more likable than Sarah's. I mean I felt bad for Lou and Hannah because they both seemed to be quite into Chuck just as he was, but they just couldn't compete with his feelings for Sarah. Jill also seemed to genuinely like Chuck even though she was a traitor. Meanwhile, Sarah's love interests seemed to be designed to make Chuck jealous and miserable. And because Chuck's feelings for Sarah were more apparent and open, I just felt bad for him whenever Sarah was with someone else, but when Chuck was with someone, it was usually after he had already expressed his feelings for Sarah and she had told them that they couldn't be together so I didn't really feel as bad for her.

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[–] martraynor 10 years ago

WOW - YES! Very well put! You're right about his love interests being much more likeable, too.

While I never liked that she confided in Shaw, it seems to me she was doing so 1) because she was so torn up about Chuck's changing (or perception thereof), and 2)since he was a spy, he could relate (as opposed to Chuck, who wouldn't understand her conflict because he hadn't lived it the same way she had).

Even when she tells Shaw her real name, it's because she's lamenting the fact that she sees Chuck losing his real, true self, and she blames herself for that by driving him toward being a spy. I don't think it was told to him in any kind of loving way, but rather in a moment of despair - over Chuck.

At least that's how I want to see it, if that makes sense.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] jtsjtssmokey-703-366973 9 years ago

Well going with the "flow", I "say" Chuck and Sarah did rekindle what was special between them. One thing noticed not mentioned here, is she also had the full taping of her time with Chuck and falling for him in her own words, to see how she expressed what she was feeling, so in part I think she re fell in love and probably deeper as she learns more about not just Chuck but herself...ok have been writing a bit of what I think could be a good follow up movie in the next couple yrs, an yes does have some of the "sap" but well not finished and at the moment taking a break from it as have 2 diff directions could go but not flowing yet to a finish, that an still need to find someone to edit, as i is horrid at it.

Funny thing with the mention of Lost, watched the first think was 3 or 4 epis, ("lost" interest) and 2 were with friends, one I just re connected with as they were in an area where contact was hard, got reminded that I told them what I thought they would do to end it, and well never have watched, but they told me was only slightly diff from what I jokingly told them, though dont rem what i said.

Live life to be alive...and may your day be well or find one thing that gives you that little extra, even just a 😄

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