MovieChat Forums > Dogfights (2005) Discussion > lack of foreign aces

lack of foreign aces

posted 17 years ago by monster99105
10 replies | jump to latest

Being a huge aviation buff i am probably this shows biggest fan but one thing i find lacking is that i really want to see are some air battles involving some of the great german, russian, british, japanese, and north vietnamese aces. All i ever see are American victories and the show seems so one sided at times. One particular thing i would like to see would be the luftwaffe, japanese, and north vietnamese victories against the Americans. From 1941-1943 the Luftwaffe scored massive amounts of ariel victories against the USAAF, the RAF, and the Soviet Air forces yet none of this is covered. An episode about aces such as Erich Hartmann, Heinz Bar, Hans Joachim Marsellei, Egon Mayer and so on would make for a new, interesting episode.

[–] wiltvid 17 years ago

I second your motion. It looks like this quite well done series, is for US-american consumption only. American viewers also might get the impression
that their airwars where more or less like one big shooting Gallery.
In germany we had aces with more than 300 kills in WW2, none of them are portrayed in this series.
I like to add Ernst Udet, Werner Moelders, Steinhoff, Feldwebel Handke and so on. Also the russians had Pokrischkin with 72 shootdowns, Kojedub with 69 and so on. The japanese had Sabukuo Sakai with 72 and there where 4 more with close to 60. It's a shame you don't see them portrait. May be it has something to do with the american ratings.

[–] nickm2 10 years ago

FYI: At another blog I infest, we had an American P51 pilot from the 15th Airforce joining us; Forgot his name, but he did achieve 'ace' status flying the Mustang. One of HIS mission recreated created for the 'Aces' program. He did state that the programmers had to interview the heck out of him in order to animate the dogfight correctly. Thing is, none of the pilots mentioned above are either alive or wrote extensively about their combats.

The closest they got was Ernst Udet who wrote in great detail about his 'dogfight to a draw' with a French fighter pilot, he assumed to be Georges Guynemer. And James McCudden (and his squadron's) dogfight with Werner Voss was also recreated because McCudden AND his fellow squadronmates wrote very extensively about how it was to tangle with Voss.

Why can't you wretched prey creatures understand that the Universe doesn't owe you anything!?

[–] OUtrombonist 17 years ago

Did you never see the "First Dogfights" episode I think is what it was called? That one is my favorite they've ever played. It featured my favorite aces of all time, two were German and one was French. They were the pioneers of primary aeronautical maneuvers such as the Immelman Turn and the Split S. Definitely the coolest episode as far as skilled pilots go.

I am an American Airman...I will never falter, and I will not fail.

[–] politic_swatch 17 years ago

The sole non-American fighter ace featured in one of the Dogfights series episodes where his IAI Nesher (unlicensed copy of Mirage 5) pursues an Egyptian MiG-21 is Colonel Giora Epstein of the Israeli Air Force (retired), credited with 17 jet-vs-jet kills.

[–] yoo 17 years ago

Alternatively, you could have read the message you replied to. It mentions an episode featuring several non-US aces, most prominently a German one. Of the episodes I've seen, he was described as the one with the most staggering amount of skill and courage.

[–] splat99 16 years ago

We've seen coverage of:

Ernst Udet (German), Werner Voss (German), James McCudden's stellar "B" flight, 56 Squadron (British) and Georges Guynemer (French) in WW I

The German Zonderkommando Elbe unit that was deployed to crash into US bombers

A Japanese who trained on the Ohka (but luckily didn't ever get a chance to use it)

The aforementioned Israelis

They also had a bit about the ME-163 Komet, but I missed that one.

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Still, would love to see more non-Americans. But I guess they'r the easiest to get ahold of for reminiscences, and the audience is primarily American. Though, as an American myself, I do get annoyed at how movie and TV producers seem to think none of us are much interested in non-American military stories. There are lots of us that are.

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[–] 16 years ago

[deleted]

[–] splat99 16 years ago

It's even more sad to see the HISTORY Channel cancel quality HISTORICAL shows like this for crappy "reality" tv shows like Ice Road Truckers. Go figure.

Amen! It stuns me how seldom I find anything historically compelling on The History Channel. Ice Road Truckers? UFO's? WTF????

The Troika of Irrelevancy: bringing off-topic enlightenment to the masses since 2006

[–] csullaf 16 years ago

I am terrfied for the future of this country. It appears that most Americans forego quality, educational programming like this series in favor of trash-reality TV, like "The Biggest Loser" or "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition." Don't even mention the ice truckers (most of whom are actually Canadian).

Many Americans know more about idiots like Britney Spears than about the hell-holes that our soldiers are fighting in or about their own government. Finally, a majority of Americans chose an undistinguished, inexperienced, unknown Chicago-machine politician over a decorated, distinguished, politically seasoned American Hero to be our next President. It's just as absurd as a fat person on a diet choosing a triple Whopper with cheese over a tossed salad.

Our country is relentlessly dumbing down.

[–] splat99 16 years ago

I was with you till the end there. I see Obama's election as a sign that Americans are finally paying attention...but that's way OT on this thread and we can just agree to disagree politically.

The Troika of Irrelevancy: bringing off-topic enlightenment to the masses since 2006