MovieChat Forums > Love & Mercy (2015) Discussion > My biggest problem with the film..

My biggest problem with the film..

posted 10 years ago by timdgd
73 replies | jump to latest

I am a huge Brian Wilson/Beach Boys fan and was pretty disappointed after seeing this opening day. One of the things that bugged me the most about this film was the music segments. Sometimes you'd be hearing the original track with Brian Wilsons voice which would be obvious and other times it was Paul Dano singing but he either fell flat or they would autotune him to the point where you could hear the effect. I felt like this was inconsistent and amateurish. I guess other than that the movie time jumps were random and unorganized. I was pretty antsy to get out of the theatre about 30 minutes in. Anyone else experience any of this?

[–] mail-2217 10 years ago

I'm a professional musician and there's a joke in the biz that there are 2 kinds of white people from that era: Beatles people and Beach Boys people.

I'm a Beatles person so take it FWIW...

Brian (and the Boys) could never particularly sing in tune to begin with... which is why they used 3 Dog Night guys on a lot of records. His falsetto was never the best part of their harmonies IMO. And since his stroke (or whatever happened to him), frankly it's pretty awful.

But I could say the same WRT James Brown or early David Crosby and so on. -Most- singers back then were 'pitchy' as they say on American Idol.

Anyhoo, I think they did a pretty great job of meshing Paul Dano and Brian together. If it doesn't sound great, well... Brian's voice in real life was never as cool as the -songs- (or the other singers.)

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] timdgd 10 years ago

It's Stones Vs Beatles not Beach Boys Vs Beatles. I'm a Beatles guy as well but I disagree.. I think Brians falsetto was the best part of their harmonies.

[–] karnevilelp 10 years ago

Just came back from seeing this. I've read a bunch on the Beach Boys/Brian Wilson, they do a good job of getting the history right. Yes, the overdubbing/tracking of Paul Dano's voice with Wilson's can be a bit iffy, but they do a pretty good job of mimicking the Beach Boys records.

My biggest problem was something that the OP mentions, that the Dano/Cusack sections don't really fit together. We find out about Brian being mostly deaf in one ear until towards the end, for example. They leave Dano Brian ca. 1968-69, but pick up with Cusack Wilson sometime in the mid-80's. Even though I know the history, the Landy stuff feels like it's missing chunks of story.

I feel the movie would have worked better if it had been done in a linear, childhood to adulthood fashion.

[–] benman46 9 years ago

The one thing I was hoping the film wouldn't be was another tedious childhood to adulthood film. Your typical Hollywood biopic. I was more interested in the time Brian was making music than seeing anymore about Landy which has been well documented.

[–] bykowski-robert1 10 years ago

The Beatles, the Stones and the Beach Boys are three of the ten greatest rock 'n roll bands that ever existed on this planet. And, yes, the Beach Boys had FANTASTIC harmonies and voices. Carl Wilson's lead vocal on "God Only Knows" might just be the most moving lead vocal I've ever heard on a rock record.

The movie was fantastic, but it greatly helps to know in advance the entire Brian Wilson story for maximum enjoyment of the film. In other words, being a major Brian Wilson or Beach Boys fan. If you're only a casual fan of the band, a lot of the story will skim over your head and you'll just think that all the movie is about is a rock star with mental illness who had a bad reaction to drugs. You'll miss the extent of the abusiveness of Brian's dad and his jealousy of Brian's talent, how inner driven he was to compete with the Beatles, how the rejection of his increasingly complex music by the band contributed to his breakdown, etc. Yes, you'll pick up on how opportunistic Brian's psychiatrist, Dr. Eugene Landy, was, but you might not realize how Dr. Landy DID pull Brian out of the depths of depression at the beginning of his treatment. And you'll obviously pick up on how Brian's second wife, Melinda, gave him a second shot at life.

The acting is outstanding, as is the direction. Paul Dano and John Cusack will probably cancel each other out for a Best Actor Oscar nomination, but look for Elizabeth Banks (who plays Brian's second wife, Melinda) to get a nod for a Best Supporting Actress nomination.

Overall, this is the best movie I've seen this year thus far.

[–] baileythedog 10 years ago

The movie was fantastic, but it greatly helps to know in advance the entire Brian Wilson story for maximum enjoyment of the film. In other words, being a major Brian Wilson or Beach Boys fan. If you're only a casual fan of the band, a lot of the story will skim over your head and you'll just think that all the movie is about is a rock star with mental illness who had a bad reaction to drugs. You'll miss the extent of the abusiveness of Brian's dad and his jealousy of Brian's talent, how inner driven he was to compete with the Beatles, how the rejection of his increasingly complex music by the band contributed to his breakdown, etc. Yes, you'll pick up on how opportunistic Brian's psychiatrist, Dr. Eugene Landy, was, but you might not realize how Dr. Landy DID pull Brian out of the depths of depression at the beginning of his treatment. And you'll obviously pick up on how Brian's second wife, Melinda, gave him a second shot at life.

Prior to the movie, I would have considered myself a casual fan. I didn't miss any of these things you mentioned above. I felt like the movie touched on all of those points and made them clear in succinct, pithy manners. Any normal length movie probably wasn't going to dwell on each of those issues too indulgently, but the general point was effectively made such that the drama resonated.

[–] johnston.scot 10 years ago

but it greatly helps to know in advance the entire Brian Wilson story for maximum enjoyment of the film.

Maybe, but I don't think so.

the abusiveness of Brian's dad and his jealousy of Brian's talent

They hit that pretty hard. Off the top of my head:
- the scene when Brian tentatively sings "God Only Knows" and his father dismisses it out hand laid out their relationship (on both sides) pretty dramatically;
- quicker, but telling: when Murry comes into the studio and plays the track he loves from his other band;
- powerfully written and acted: when Brian tells Melinda about his father hitting him and his brothers;
- doesn't Brian attribute his deafness in one ear to being hit by his father?;
- assorted references in conversations among the three brothers;
- a bit different: when Murry tells Brian about selling the publishing rights to the whole catalog.

how inner driven he was to compete with the Beatles

Mentioned pretty clearly early in the move, when the three brothers were talking.

how the rejection of his increasingly complex music by the band contributed to his breakdown

That was the theme of the entire '60s-era part of the movie, wasn't it?

Protagonist: Brian. Antagonists: Mike Love and his father. Conflict: Musical direction. Resolution: Brian loses on the musical direction and loses his bearings generally.

might not realize how Dr. Landy DID pull Brian out of the depths of depression at the beginning of his treatment

That did perhaps get slid over a bit. It's mentioned, but really more implied than dramatized, as it takes place in the period that's not in the movie.

[–] penny-parkin 10 years ago

Thanks, bykowski, for your commentary. Just saw the film tonight in Traverse City Michigan and mostly loved it, especially Paul Dano's portrayal. I read an article maybe in the 1980s about Brian and his infamous therapist Dr. Landy but I'd love to read a good biography of Brian. Sounds like you've done some reading, so can you recommend a good one? Many thx!

[–] akkratte 9 years ago

I really enjoyed the movie.

I'd put God Only Knows and It Makes No Difference (the Band) in their own category as far as amazing lead vocals.

I will say this though. Banks isn't going to get a nomination. She was great, but among the five best supporting actresses of the year? No.

[–] whoanelly (1592) 4 years ago

Absolutely right, timgdg. And let’s remember that the Beatles were huge fams of the Beach Boys, esp Pet Sounds, but also California Girls and others of their big hits.

[–] Dstevenb 10 years ago

Where did you get the information that 3 Dog Night sang on Beach Boys records? The vocals on every track I have heard are unmistakeable. They sound nothing like the Redwood material from 1967. And stating that Brian and the boys could never particularly sing in tune??? ALOT of musicians and music historians would disagree with you.

[–] johnston.scot 10 years ago

Just to agree with others:

- Beatles people vs. Beach Boys people might be distinction someone at some time drew, but it's a weird one. I've heard Beatles people vs. Elvis people (that may just be a purely Quentin Tarantino one), and there's always been a Beatles vs. Stones "thing." Depending on what era you're talking about, if you were splitting audiences in a meaningful way, they would've cleaved much more dramatically around, say, BeatlesBeachBoysEtc. people vs. jazz people, or BeatlesBeachBoysEtc. people vs. Dylan people, etc.

- The Beach Boys sang dead square in tune (whatever Murry made have said to the contrary). Indeed, I think one might criticize them for being too perfectly pitched. Anyway, I don't think they're typically accused of being bluesy. The James Brown reference is a bit odd: most of his vocals don't even have much of a pitch. And what is "early David Crosby," anyway? The Byrds? Something someone heard in a coffeeshop in Greenwich Village?

On the other hand, I agree that what's in the movie works quite well. In real life, Brian's voice when he was, say, tentatively singing a song for Murry while trying to get the piano right would've sounded obviously different from what you hear on a finished album.

[–] steverok 10 years ago

I could not disagree with your assessment more, regarding the Beach Boys harmonies and Brian's voice. "Wouldn't It Be Nice", alone, is a crowning achievement in group singing. If they used Three Dog Night singers, that must have been on their 1970s records without Brian, because their 60s recordings were all them. Brian's falsetto voice had a vulnerability that could not be duplicated by anyone, and it graced their harmonies in an extremely magical way. On his 2003 Pet Sounds Live DVD, he has a couple falsetto moments that are quite good. I lost the top end of my falsetto in my 40s, so it does go eventually, maybe sooner for him.

[–] Brennan-8 10 years ago

Beach Boys a capella: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQFvobezpjI

They would do this song live all the time - there is no studio fakery or dudes from Three Dog Night pitching in.

[–] mail-2217 10 years ago

I take back what I wrote... the bass guy is by far the worst. :D

Look, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. If you love them? GREAT! My comment was only wrt to the voice matching between Paul Dano and 'Brian'. It was -fine- because, frankly, Brian's voice was not as silky smooth as all that--regardless of how much one enjoys their sound.

My statements aren't controversial at all among my peers so I wrote before considering the feelings of fans. Nobody wants to hear about their idols zits. And I could write a lot of blather to 'prove' my statements but look at it this way...

When I listen to that stuff I focus on Brian's arrangements rather than the individual voices because that's where the beef is.

What made their stuff musically noteworthy was that the harmonies were (are) a lot more adventurous than other pop groups. That stuff is -much- harder to sing than just the typical oohs and ahhs of, say, The Beatles or CSN or Eagles. The big jumps in voice leading and tough for -anyone- to nail. So any weaknesses they had as singers always stuck out --way-- more than other groups because other groups wouldn't even attempt that kind of barbershop harmony. Babe Ruth struck out from time to time--that's just the price of always swinging for the seats.

[–] Brennan-8 10 years ago

Brian Wilson singing "Caroline No" a capella: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Jvblwzwjo

And Carl Wilson sang even prettier than his brother. You're just being a troll and you know it.

[–] ajm32 10 years ago

You must be a very unsuccessful "professional musician," my friend (and who exactly are your "peers"?) Three Dog Night sang on all the BB's records? You can "prove" your ludicrous statements? Go crawl back under your rock and stick to pleasuring yourself to "Love Me Do."

[–] pturman-929-979676 10 years ago

So give some examples of their weaknesses as singers. What songs are you talking about? And specifically what songs did NON Beach Boys sing on? Look, I don't know if you're a professional musician or not (anybody can say that on the internet). But you sound like you at least have a musical background and can "talk the talk." So that's good for something. I just disagree with your opinions but if you can cite some specific examples, I'll listen with an open mind.

[–] mcmingus 10 years ago

Nicely said.

Definitely agree with you about the arrangements being at the heart of that music. I think the studio scenes in the film do well at isolating some of those musical elements and then visually realizing how they're put together. That device makes the brilliance of the whole composition shine through.

*Danny's not here, Mrs. Torrance*

[–] LoBo_77018 10 years ago

I always thought it was Beatles ppl vs. Elvis ppl. My dad was an Elvis person (born in 38 - in high school when Elvis was first popular) and my mom was a Beatles person (born in 44 - in high school when the Beatles were first popular).

That being said they both loved the Beach Boys - my mom does to this day. Maybe its because "the group" (if you can call it that) has never really gone away. It disgusts me but my mother's favorite song is Kokomo - ugh. Personally, I like "In My Room." It hit me right about the time I was filled with adolescent angst.

[–] johnston.scot 10 years ago

Your mom must have spent a lot of time in high school....

(Actually, your post makes good sense, but - unless your mom went to high school in Great Britain, where they don't call them "high schools" anyway - she was 19 or 20 when the Beatles first became popular).

[–] LoBo_77018 10 years ago

Typo - she was born in 47

[–] gage992112 9 years ago

Yeah...my dad was an Elvis man. He was born in '39. It's very recognizable...

[–] pturman-929-979676 10 years ago

Yeah, well, Mr. Professional Musician, I totally disagree with your comment. Guess what: SOME people (white & non) like the Beatles AND the Beach Boys (I'm one of them). Very radical idea, I know. And yeah, it's true Brian isn't the singer in his 60s that he was in his 20s. NO singer of rock & roll is (if you really ARE a "professional" musician, you'll know that). But what mainly makes me doubt your credibility & veracity is your claim that "Brian could never sing in tune to begin with." Brian Wilson had one of the best tenors AND falsettos in rock history (as did his brother Carl). So yeah, the Wrecking Crew is who you heard PLAYING on Beach Boy records, but 99% of who you heard SINGING on Beach Boy records was a Beach Boy. And if after listening to their records, you STILL think "the boys could never particularly sing in tune to begin with," then you're not really listening. The Beach Boys are regarded, and deservedly so, as one of the best harmonizing vocal groups of the last half century. And I also disagree with your statement that most singers back then were "pitchy" (defined as singing out of tune I assume).

[–] giggsrightft 10 years ago

well now we know you have a tin ear. congratulations. nobend

[–] JEyler1183 9 years ago

I wanted to get up and put my fist through my new 80 inch Samsung SUHD Curved Ultra 4K LED Smart TV 3D and punch the Psychiatrist. I couldn't stand him. Watching John Cusack was almost watching a grown up version of Say Anything from 2015. John had to have the woman.

[–] richardbatsford 10 years ago

Mate, sorry, but no, no, no!

Its true that Brian used the 'wrecking crew' for the instrumental parts after his decision to stay at home and write/produce whilst the others toured, but the rest of the band would always provide the vocals.

There are plenty of live recordings where you can hear the Boys sing in amazing close harmony. They were incredibly skilled at it.

heres just one of many - https://youtu.be/eygnj-QTMhU (from 1965, some way before autotune!)

cheers

Rich

[–] undula 10 years ago

I've never heard of them using Three Dog Night as singers! I do, however, know that Brian was pretty good friends with Danny Hutton (a friendship that incidentally took a destructive turn for Brian) and intended for TDN to record "Darlin'" and "Time to Get Alone". Where did you hear that TDN performed on any Beach Boys record? Whoever told you that probably got their BS mixed up.

Also, judging from the sessions I've heard from their early days up until "Smile", I'd say they were a pretty consistent vocal group, apart from Mike and Al (at some points) who obviously had some problems with the less conventional, largely chromatic and somewhat jazzy vocal arrangements on "Smile". And as far as I know, Brian never had a stroke. He was just "treated" with a pretty massive drug cocktail on a regular basis by his therapist in the late 70's-80's, which had some serious impact on his brain.
On a side note, I also believe his massive intake of amphetamines (not acid, mind you) in the 60's might've messed him up, but they did nothing to his voice.

There's a reason The Beach Boys are viewed as one of the best vocal groups in pop music, and I can tell you that that reason has nothing to do with Three Dog Night. When you make claims like that, citing your sources might be a good start because otherwise, frankly, you come off a bit like you have no idea what you're talking about.

[–] BigGayKirk 10 years ago

I'm bi--white boy here who likes both Beatles and Beach Boys. ;) After the initial tension about competition in the beginning, the two bands gradually developed a group bromance. At least mutual respect. I think it was '66 when the Beach Boys were #1 in Britain, Beatles #2, and reversed in the USA.

"...when Good Vibrations went to No 1 in 1966 and Great Britain voted us the No 1 group (1) – No 2 the Beatles, No 3 the Stones – that was pretty special. In December 1967 we learned transcendental meditation from the Maharishi and he invited us to India. Lo and behold, who was there but the Beatles." --Mike Love

I've seen the Beach Boys 3 times, and have seen the "fake" beach boys (Mike Love's touring band with Bruce Johnston) twice. The fake beach boys are actually very good. I saw a clip of the 50th anniversary tour where Bruce actually got to sing lead. I was surprised at how good he sounded. He should have given more lead vocals... but I digress.

I decided to skip the BB in my town during the 50th tour, as it was going to be over 100 degrees out. I sort of regret it, but I've seen endless clips of those shows on youtube. They sounded for the most part pretty good, and at their age, I don't fault them for having a big band helping them. Some of Brian's band and some of Mike's band joined on the tour.

Brian did trash his voice in the Bad Years. Steve Foskett does his falsetto now.

[–] Naughty-God 10 years ago

I don't quite get your analogy regarding two different types of white people with regards to The Beatles and the Beach Boys. At first, I thought you were going to differentiate the harmonious vocals associated with the Beach Boys vs the unique and inspiring instrumental compositions commissioned by the Beatles but you went in the opposite direction of discrediting the Beach Boys' singing abilities yet you didn't really defend any of the Beatles' singing, which when you really look at it are either just as bad or worse than the Beach Boys (I personally think none of the Fab Four had strong singing voices btw).

[–] mail-2217 10 years ago

I bailed on this thread when the insults started flying. All I can tell ya is that the Beach Boys vs. Beatles 'rivalry' was -everywhere- when I was a kid and I've discussed it with people all over America and UK--they even mention that Paul and Brian felt it. So I'm surprised that literally no one here was familiar. Maybe the West Coast missed out on it. :D (But I didn't become a teen until the early 70's and by that point, Beatles were still 'fresh' but B.B. were already on the oldies channel. So maybe that had something to do with it.)

This ain't a Beatles thread, but Paul had a stellar voice by any yardstick. John and George? Yeah, not so much. The blend is what made their harmonies work so well. Some guys just complement one another in a magical way. And the other the thing I always liked about their singing was the huge range of colours they got by combining their voices in different ways. They win the award for getting the most mileage out of what they had to work with. Their tuning was perfectly fine because they didn't do harmonies where clams would stick out. They (mostly) played it safe.

Beach Boys harmonies were -way- more complex than the Beatles. Many of their arrangements involved very difficult (for a pop band) jumps and tight 'jazz' voicings that are just -murder- to sing in tune (especially live). So if (as I contend) the intonation wasn't always top notch it's only because the arrangements were so much more adventurous than anyone else in pop.

[–] Naughty-God 10 years ago

I grew up in the80s, but I was an avid follower of Rock history and read up on old Rolling Stone and Melody Maker articles in college (remember Microfiche?), and I remember reading about the rivalry back in the 60s. It didn't permeate much more outside of that era so yeah it isn't something even most Gen Xers would be aware of. Furthermore, most of my generation remembers the Beach Boys sans Brian Wilson singing Kokomo with that Greek Yogurt blowhard John Stamos while serenading Nancy Reagan.

[–] chiodoesque 10 years ago

Who the hell are you? Everything you said is off the mark.
Three Dog Night? The Beach Boys didn't need anybody to do harmony. Hell, Chicago invited them on some sessions.

Brian was a perfectionist in the studio and was surrounded by the best session musicians in the business.
His falsetto was flawless. Angelic, I'd call it

And that lame statement about two kinds of white people from that era. As if you could reduce the 60's to two groups.

What you are is full of yourself.

[–] lubin-freddy 9 years ago

I'm a professional musician and there's a joke in the biz that there are 2 kinds of white people from that era: Beatles people and Beach Boys people

. Stones, man Stones!!!

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

[–] dinerfood-901-211557 9 years ago

re: Beatles vs Beach Boys

Many of the famous LA Top 40 of that era, extensively used the Wrecking Crew (and they're vocalists for voice doubling). All excellent studio musicians, along with the Funk Brothers who performed most of the Motown hits. If the Beach Boys had to actually play their instruments plus the vocals you wouldn't have a Beach Boys record. Does that matter? Only to musicians, like myself. So I gravitate toward the Clapton and Creams rather than the Monkees of that time.

Songwriting-wise they're still not on par with Beatles. But I wonder, how many would come up with great songs if all they had to do was lie around, ingest massive amounts of drugs and tool around with their muse until something came to them. Probably many classic albums were born that way. Nevertheless, a great band but how many of these VH1ish biopics turn out well they have to take care not to offend the siblings and relatives.

[–] SGJan81 9 years ago

That's interesting. That would make me a 'Beach Boys' people. I have it down to three types : Beatles people -- Rolling Stones people -- Bob Dylan people. On this scale, I am a Rolling Stones people.

Yodi

[–] benman46 9 years ago

You may be a professional musician, but you seem to know fck all about music and The Beach Boys in particular. To say Brian's falsetto was never the best part of the harmonies is just nonsense. A failed professional musician more like.

[–] Jakezen 9 years ago

which is why they used 3 Dog Night guys on a lot of records.

What the what? Where did you get this from? On what Beach Boys albums did they sing on while Brian Wilson was still actively involved?

[–] Alyse_MA 9 years ago

I think this person is confused.

Brian Wilson tried to help Three Dog Night before they had this name (they were called Redwood) by writing some songs for them and producing their recordings, but they were never released.

Other Beach Boys were objecting because Brian was already drifting away from his work with the Beach Boys, so Brian stopped.

[–] andrewhuk 9 years ago

I'm guessing you've never listened to Brian's 1967 solo version of Surf's Up from the Smile Sessions record. Do yourself and everyone here a favour and take a listen. Whilst listening it's worth remembering that it's simply a raw recording of Brian playing and singing live.

[–] theunopeneddoor-697-442391 9 years ago

Brian (and the Boys) could never particularly sing in tune to begin with

You must be tone deaf. I'm a musician, they sang in tune very well. Brian is known as being the person who did more for harmony than any other American pop musician.

. which is why they used 3 Dog Night guys on a lot of records

This is blatantly false. First of all no one anywhere has ever said this, second of all Three Dog Night sounded nothing like them, third of all Three Dog Night were no where near the musicians the Beach Boys were. Forth of all you want to talk about singing off pitch, that was Three Dog Night. The opening of their song "Joy To The World" where they sing "Jeremiah was a Bullfrog..." was some of the worst singing I've ever heard on a recording. The only record that Three Dog Night appears on with the Beach Boys is Darlin' and that is 100% for marketing, not to improve the song.

Characters are more important than plot.

[–] jimmyneck3 9 years ago

you are out of your mind

[–] Hezzer_Wezzer 9 years ago

I'm a professional musician and there's a joke in the biz that there are 2 kinds of white people from that era: Beatles people and Beach Boys people.

No need to be an either / or.

I love both groups for what they have to offer!

[–] AnthonyManero 8 years ago

Never heard of "Beatles vs. Beach boys"...I always heard "Beatles vs Stones". Also, I never heard people say Brian Wilson singing isn't good..actually, I always heard the opposite, that they like it. I'm not a Beach Boys fan, but I prefer his voice to the other member's.

[–] Naughty-God 8 years ago

Nobody from the Beatles was a harmonious vocalist, not by a long shot and that's not a bad thing because their music library swings from garage rock style to melodious orchestral abstract symphonies with no particular goal in sounding like a professional crooner or an opera singer.

[–] Prelude (1443) 5 years ago

You don't have to be a "professional musician" to give your argument or opinion added weight.

I've been somewhat of a struggling "professional" musician/songwriter too, and I never heard that "biz joke." It's "Rolling Stones or Beatles."

I was both a Beatles and a Beach Boys fan. They had more in common musically than given credit for, namely great melodies.

About Beach Boys singing in tune - yes I hear the little wobbles and sour notes. They never mattered to me. net result was it was REAL PEOPLE singing, flaws and all. Those tiny flaws in otherwise sublime music made it all the more sublime.

[–] workbumpf 10 years ago

The time jumps were a real problem. I think they were symptomatic of the director's lack of experience. He would jump around and then suddenly stay stuck on a (not very interesting) image for way too long.

The film needed to be edited. At least 30 min were superfluous.

[–] TheRealJaneDoe 10 years ago

The film needed to be edited. At least 30 min were superfluous.

Am enjoying reading this thread -- haven't finished but had to agree with this. The editing overall wasn't great, either.

Look at us. You pretending to be me, signing a book I didn't even write. -Selina Meyer

[–] Jeff0015 10 years ago

I'm only a casual fan, but I accepted this thinking that Brian Wilsons voice is not as exceptional as his overall musical genius. I think they even said as much somewhere in the movie.

[–] mail-2217 10 years ago

You are correct. None of the BBs had what would be considered 'great' pop voices...

What -is- a great pop voice? Steve Perry comes to mind. Sting. Stevie Wonder. Tony Bennett. Ask any professional voice coach.

That said, a 'great' voice is largely irrelevant. Sinatra didn't have 'great' voice in the traditional sense. And a lot of voice coaches even hate Elvis' timbre (his high notes are terrible---the guy never wanted to take lessons.) I won't even bother to mention Dylan or Neil Young or Lou Reed. A 'great' voice doesn't a great singer. And most singers, in even the most successful bands are not great voices. They have some special 'something' that sells millions, but not a great -instrument-. That isn't what people respond to in pop music.

Real fans can rarely hear their idols objectively. Thank God! My comments hit a nerve because for fans... it's like saying yer mama's fat. It ain't true you jerk! And even if it is? Don't you dare say it! :D Doesn't matter.

That said, all the personal insults are disappointing.

But the original point... the matching of Paul Dano and Brian Wilson's vocal noodling sounds fine to me -regardless- of how 'great' Brian sang because: Not many singers (great or not) sound particularly good when they're trying things out at a piano. Most people can't concentrate on tone/pitch while yer thinking up a song or demoing it for friends. That's why they call it a 'demo'.

[–] ajm32 10 years ago

Actually, your original point was:

"Brian (and the Boys) could never particularly sing in tune to begin with... which is why they used 3 Dog Night guys on a lot of records."

And that is why you have lost all credibility on this board.

[–] johnston.scot 10 years ago

FWIW, I agree with your fundamental point: that the bits of Dano singing that we hear in the movie are fine, given the situations.

But I think the bit about "great pop voices" is going the opposite direction from your earlier comments. To the extent their voices warrant criticism, it's that they're too bell-like and perfectly-pitched (at least the Wilsons and Jardine), such that they lack expressiveness. But such a criticism is kind of knee-jerk reaction, based on an inordinately narrow sense of what "great pop" (or just "pop") means. There are any number of ways a voice can work, just as there are any number of different styles and ways a song can work.

[–] mail-2217 10 years ago

The responses to what I wrote are 'knee jerk' and in the worst tradition of IMDB. People love Brian and don't wanna hear -anything- that feels to them like 'bashing' so they lash out.

There's no way to discuss this sort of thing without things getting ugly, so that's it for me... which should make -my- critics happy.

Enjoy. Good movie.

[–] undula 10 years ago

Not really "knee jerk", as you say. The fact is that you provided loads of false information under the disguise as a "professional musician". Personally, I just think it's kind of comical, but some people can be quite upset about things like this.
I've had high doubts about you even being a musician, let alone a professional one, since your first comment on this thread. Now if it turns out I'm wrong, I do apologize, but I believe this because you have, as someone else pointed out, lost all credibility on this subject matter due to acting like a charlatan (forgive me for sounding harsh) and a troll by not even giving a clear response to those questioning your statements, and now abandoning the sinking ship.
If you post on other threads, I hope people will take a few minutes to check your history here on IMDB so that they know what kind of user 'mail-2217' is, and hopefully not get too annoyed for their own good.

Also, thank you, I will enjoy the movie once it gets released where I live. Have a good day.

[–] emvan 10 years ago

I think I probably speak for a lot of people here by saying that I would gladly trade every note Steve Perry has sung from birth until this present moment for one phrase of Carl Wilson's. I know this is all subjective and depends on brain wiring that you can do nothing about, but if you've heard the solo track of Carl singing "God Only Knows" and did not melt in bliss, I feel nothing but pity for you.

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.

[–] Prismark10 9 years ago

'A 'great' voice doesn't a great singer. And most singers, in even the most successful bands are not great voices. They have some special 'something' that sells millions, but not a great -instrument-. That isn't what people respond to in pop music. '

Quoted for Truth

It's that man again!!

[–] pturman-929-979676 10 years ago

That's fine but actually, that's wrong. When he was younger, he had one of the purest, most beautiful tenors/falsettos in the history of rock. He lost it at some point. In 2015, he's not 1/10th of the singer he was in 1965 (which is inevitable. Singing rock & roll, like playing sports, is a young man's game). There are examples of his incredible voice posted by others on this thread.

[–] emvan 10 years ago

It's off topic, but there are exceptions to every rule ... and Gary Brooker of Procol Harum may be singing better now than he did in the 60's, hitting high grace notes that aren't on the records. I last saw them a few years ago, opening for Jethro Tull, and they got a long, rapturous standing O from a crowd that was mostly just curious about them going in.

(I also think that Brooker is the third best composer of the classic rock era, after Brian and Jack Bruce. Not "greatest," because his peak was very brief, but there's a few albums worth of material that's just brilliant.)

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.

[–] Hezzer_Wezzer 9 years ago

I'm only a casual fan, but I accepted this thinking that Brian Wilsons voice is not as exceptional as his overall musical genius. I think they even said as much somewhere in the movie.

I agree.

I think that's why it wasn't such a big deal that he didn't go on tour with them at one point.

It was his lyrical and musical compositions that mattered the most.

[–] GorchBrother 9 years ago

The truth is that Brian's high harmony and falsetto voice is one of the defining features of the beach boys sound and something that rival bands tried to emulate.

The rest of the band were completely distraught at Brian's decision to stop touring. They hired Glen Campbell because of his singing skills.

On later records, Al Jardine and Bruce Johnston consciously affected the same kind of falsetto singing so that it sounded as if Brian was singing.

Brian may not have had the best voice or been the best singer in the band (Carl is often acknowledged to have been the best all round singer) but if you are in any doubt as to his ability then check out this "Unrelease backgrounds" track of a vocal arrangement Brian recorded purely by himself around the Pet Sounds era.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUnSLB5Yr9M

And his high harmony part in Forever, from 1970 album Sunflower

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvzp3rfPL4k

"Who can't use the Force now?! I can still use the Force!" - Yarael Poof

[–] tiffanycox 10 years ago

Most of you must not be true and dedicated fans. Young Brian Wilson has one of the greatest voices of all time. You must not appreciate true, raw talent. If you're only going off of this movie, don't. In a lot of the scenes with Paul they used his voice mixed with Brian's. You're a complete moron to think that The Beach Boys didn't sing in tune. How can you say that when you hear them sing harmonies on "You Still Believe in Me"? And yes, Brian's voice DOES match his song writing ability. Y'all have no clue what you're talking about.

[–] tiffanycox 10 years ago

And no you have it all wrong. 3 Dog Noght never recorded on The Beach Boys albums. Where did you ever read this? And yes Brian's falsetto WAS the best part of the harmonies.

[–] tiffanycox 10 years ago

Mail-2217 - why are you not doing your research? Brian never had a stroke! No one in the industry can sing like they used to as a young adult. Same went for Elvis and now Paul McCartney. You know nothing. Please see my previous replies.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] statuskuo 10 years ago

Having known very little about Brian Wilson but only through rumors (way before internet), it was interesting to see the mental torture he'd gone through. As far as his singing is concerned, you can hear he's off in the scene during the closing credits. Who cares though...I thought it was the heart of who he was.

Let's not forget he was deaf in one ear.

[–] kenny-164 10 years ago

The comments claiming the Beach Boys did not sing in tune were laughingly ignorant, and I have never heard of a Beatles v. Beach Boys dichotomy - how ignorant as well.

On the two substantive criticisms here, one being about use of Paul Dano's voice here and there, I think it worked since it was when "Brian" would be focusing on the chords, writing them out as he played them, rather than on singing as he would in real performance or recording. I thought that was kind of obvious in fact.

The criticism of the use of two actors and the use of flashbacks is also inapt. The director was trying to show the comparison between the mid-sixties creative period, accompanied by the increasing effect of Brian's personal demons, and how those forces affected him nearly twenty years later. The visual dissonance between the appearance of Dano and Cusack actually worked because the real Brian Wilson himself looked so different, given all the strain and the effects of various considerations.

In other words I do not think these criticisms have merit.

[–] jimparrett 9 years ago

The whining on this subject is pretty laughable. Have you guys seen other biopics, especially the two previous laughable Beach Boy ones? The work on this film is extraordinary. The shout outs to engineer Chuck Britz and the individual Wrecking Crew members are details unlike anything I've seen in a biopic before. Even the tape boxes are reasonably accurate. Then again, biopics are subjective - this one just happened to hit the right spot for me.