MovieChat Forums > Capturing Mary (2007) Discussion > My theory about Greville !!SPOILERS!!

My theory about Greville !!SPOILERS!!

posted 15 years ago by kgb383
11 replies | jump to latest

!!!SPOILERS BELOW!!!

Greville is either the devil, or some kind of evil spirit, or demonic influence. Here's why I think this:

1. At the parties in the beginning of the movie, he comes across a man of influence that seems to know everyone's dirty secrets, despite the fact that he doesn't seem to have an official title or position anywhere. This suggests that he has some kind of powerful, secret insight into people's lives.

2. All the important and influential people he greets at these parties seem intimidated by him, even frightened of him. Perhaps because they have cut a deal with him in the past?

3. He seems to be constantly undermining people in these parties, mentioning their failures or criticisms to them in a kind of politely mocking way. Is this a way of discouraging these people from continuing with their careers?

4. All the stories he relates to Mary are either negatively charged or horrifying secrets of the great people at the center of British society. He also seems to be an insider amidst the groups to which these people belong, suggesting that he seems to be drawn or even behind this negative energy.

5. He keeps these young, attractive, bright young girls close to him in some kind of harem, perpetually at his command, almost like their will has been taken from them. Perhaps this is what he intended for Mary, which is what the key represented - essentially a symbol of her relinquished will.

6. When Mary rejects him, he destroys her career in retribution. Not necessarily a sign of the supernatural, but not very nice either.

7. He doesn't seem capable of adapting to the new freedoms of the '60s. In earlier times, he seemed to feed on those in high society who feared having their appearance or acceptance within their social circle destroyed. The freewheeling '60s and its looser morals seem to have rendered him less effective, thus his pleading to Mary for help.

8. Most obviously, he shows up several years later and hasn't aged. He also seems to have kept his harem of women, even into their elderly years. He also still seems to be attempting to undermine people, as exampled by his comments about Mary and her old age.

Anyway, those are a few of the conclusions I reached with this story.

[–] The_Dying_Flutchman 15 years ago

Good thoughts, but he could still be the ghost Mary thinks he might be. When he is shown in later times, his companion has aged, but he has not therefore I thought of him a kind of Dorian Grey. Whatever he is or isn't Mary lets him destroy her so that by story's end she is a decrepit failure as most of us will become whether or not we have our own ghosts of times gone by.

What is the sound an imploding pimp makes?

[–] Thespear 14 years ago

kgb383,

You make some good points. Greville does seems very odd and devil-like but that may simply be how Mary recalls him. She only really talked with him once for a long time and again when he brought her strawberries and she hurried him out of the room...if we believe he was really there!

I would like to shelve the question of what Greville actually was for a moment and examine the opportunity he offered Mary, which she was too scared to take. To me what Greville represents is the decadent upper class in England. He comes down firmly in believing that despite the horrid things he knew and had told Mary he "would have it no other way!". Greville was a defender of the status quo, but at the same time he chose to tell her, a commoner these poisonous secrets, without asking for a promise of fidelity from her, she offered that herself! I believe Greville told Mary those horrid stories, in the underbelly of a house full of England's best because he wanted Mary to challenge his view. After all, this was what Mary has become famous for bold writing that challenged orthodox thinking. I think this was the help Greville felt she could give him and in turn he would 'help' her with her career.

Now whether or not he was real on one or two occasions or he was never real and she invented him because she suspected or got to find out these 'horrible secrets' about England's elite, the deal was for her to expose these things Greville told her and this would make her even more of a success. Either way, Mary clearly resents the fact that she allowed the man Greville or the idea of Greville to shut down her career like he/it did. It seems to me that it was she that was sexually attracted to this man, her fixation on his young companions proves my point. She is the one that is still remarkably startled by the mere thought of his ping-pong ball rolling by. Though Mary turned down Greville's key, she called the housekeeper beforehand and supposedly secured an open invitation to the party house, her only real connection to him.

Someone or something captured Mary alright, but was it responsible for her entire life of solitude, her drinking and her not continuing to write? I doubt it.

"The only 'coercion' I seek is that brought about by reason. "

[–] rod775-1 14 years ago

Greville is Mary's alter-ego. Mary is an active alcoholic throughout her life & Greville is her own personality disorder that starts making itself known when she is young. Mary, starting out, is in over her head writing about sex, mixing with famous & infamous so she DRINKS to oversome her akwardness. And then Greville shows up. Mary is not dumb, she knows what is going on in this world. What Greville is telling her are things she could be assuming about people. She drinks more. She can't keep a job. She is in over her inexperienced head. She blames it on Greville who is her imaginary "friend". If Mary would have started a 12 step program (Alcohlics Anonymous)when she was in her 20's, Greville would have vanished, but she didn't stop drinking at all. Poor thing.....

This is very similar to a play I saw in the West End with Miss Smith called Three Tall Women.

[–] Thespear 14 years ago

Just playing devil's advocate a little. What would you make of the young women who were supposed to be Greville's young companions, the ones who are shown to have aged later on in the park? How would you explain the conversation she had with the one who gave her the letter which invited Mary to visit Greville at any time? How would you explain Greville's familiarity with everyone, every time he shows up? Isn't it a bit much to assume that Greville was entirely a figment of Mary's developing alcoholism an issue which only really seems to assert itself after her fateful encounter with him and her inability to continue to find professional success.

"The only 'coercion' I seek is that brought about by reason. "

[–] rebkad 14 years ago

Their aging is symbolic of Mary's aging? In hoc to drink?

[–] Imdb11168 13 years ago

SPOILERS !!

No, Greville is what he is shown to be, he has contacts, but those contacts are aging, and he knows that his influence will go one day as well, unless he does not reinvent himself. He shows no real lust for Mary, in fact he even tells her that they can help each other proffesionally. I think Greville needs Mary as he thinks she could be the 'key' to his future. Greville is sure that he can help Mary in return and make her more famous. Maybe Greville was right all along.

The problem is that Greville is not a very pleasant person, and he tries to impress Mary about his power and influence with those stories, which have a disastrous effect on Mary's mind, and subsequently, on their relationship.

I would like to think that Mary realizes all this in time, and regrets that she did not help herself, and slowly turns into an alcoholic, regretting her lost opportunities in life. I'm sure she even liked Greville in many ways, its her confession, and the fact that she keeps wondering about Grevilles young female friends. She imagines Greville in the penultimate scene.

I also wonder if something more happened in the cellar, which is left to our imagination ? Just the horrible stories could not have a disturbing life long effect. This is one defect in the movie, or maybe its an artistic movie which tries to involve the viewer. Anyway, Mary is captured for life, and she comes back to the house to rid herself of her lifelong Demons. She needs out, and someone to vent to. Thats why she ends with Thank You Joe.

I wish you were right. I wish Greville had been a demon or something. I'm not really intelligent and i like emotion over logic. I was hoping for a more bizarre ending after the tension and buildup.

"DARKNESS LIES...ONE STEP AHEAD" - Japanese War Proverb

[–] bluekrush 10 years ago

I totally thought he was the devil too when watching this. the fact that he knew or was present for all these horrid things is not typical of regular people. And how he traumatized he'd with is was interesting. It would have had to have been pretty bad stuff. i feel like he was having a hard time adjusting to modern times which is why he sought out Mary "the voice of youth". It makes sense if you think about how religion and believe in God and the devil diminished during the modern age. He was losing power because no one took him seriously anymore. That's how I saw it.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] MagicSlim 9 years ago

If Mr Poliakoff painted a wall I'd watch it dry. He is brilliant.

My theory is that its a metaphor for the generational transfer of information. Fascination with the class structure is a common theme with Mr P and the upper echelon's rum behaviours. Coming out of the war there were no end of evil doings to which society looked the other way. The Boomer generation in the form of Mary and schooled by parents who knew their place stayed quiet but rebelled and began to put things right. Mary is required to pass on this history to gen x in the form of Joe who has no intention of sweeping this under the carpet. Once she has done this she is notably relaxed - she has passed the baton. Joe wants retribution and someone has to pay for these sins of the past and so we see the Yew Tree project, exposure of the catholic church and so on that should have been tackled long ago but it took a generation before it was addressed.

[–] msreinhardt01 9 years ago

Plus, Greville rhymes with Devil.

I agree!!!!

[–] [email protected] (1367) 7 years ago

This movie was a sequel to Joes Palace... in that movie, Joe still had the job of taking care of the place, but the owner of that palace was a man whose father did some terrible things with the Nazis... I believe the horrific stories Greville was telling Mary were of the same subject.
I do think when she met Greville at first, he was real, the stories traumatized her, and because she rejected the key, he ruined her career. But then her drinking took over. Her artist boyfriend even said she drank wine and vodka all the time. She allowed her career to fail. She was her own worst enemy, but she transferred the blame to Grenville.
At the end of the movie, she said, Crying over lost youth is so very useless.. Thats why she saw Grenville still young, and not aged. Everyone but him aged. It was her lost youth that she saw in him at the end. Thats my take anyway.