The ending was awful, truly terrible. And this anime's just one of many victims where the writers feel some need to punish the protagonist at the end for what they did.
Dexter's another, the writer openly stated in his commentary that things would end badly for him, how could a serial killer have a happy ending? Light and Dexter both had very similar goals that only differed in scope and implementation.
Same with Weeds, how could a suburban housewife who sells drugs have a happy ending?
UM, CAUSE IT'S FICTION, THAT'S WHY.
I'm sure there's countless other examples but this is definitely the modern trend... These idiot's feel they're somehow condoning morally reprehensible behavior to the public if they let these characters ride off into the sunset. It's ridiculous, this puritanical sense of "right" and "wrong" is so hopelessly ingrained in modern American culture(any Western culture for that matter...) that we can't even entertain the possibility of "the bad guy" getting the last laugh anymore... Fiction's the perfect vehicle to explore characters with motives like Light and his vision of the New World, but we cater to the mental 1% these days in entertainment so that's clearly over with.
I'm sure if a modern Neo-Noir film was pitched in Hollywood today like Double Indemnity, Body Heat, or Primal Fear things would HAVE to be changed. We wouldn't want the mental 1% to actually develop critical thinking skills or look outside the box ever. It's easier if they go on with the illusion that the world's cut-and-dry, black and white, when it's not.
Hell, I bet Pretty Woman couldn't even get pitched in today's society, how could a hooker have a heart of Gold? HOOKING BAD. So welcome to the New World folks, it's run by Disney, and it's terrifying.
when the bad guy wins at the end, the movie or tv series gets a lot of hate because a lot of people don't like characters for being good/interesting/complex characters but for being good people. i think what happens at the end is not that good, but the way they executed it with lights speech and everything almost made up for it.
His speech and Near's one-dimensional response just about sums up what pisses me off about this growing trend I discussed in the OP. Light basically explained to them that by turning him in they were choosing the greater of two evils, crime and warfare had almost come to a screeching halt worldwide, and solely because of him.
Near's flippant response accusing him of being nothing more than a petty murderer and lunatic goes to show how people have these ideals of peace and justice but won't condone a means that actually achieves them. And in Light's case, the ends absolutely justified the means. It couldn't even be entertained or discussed at all, he was in the wrong 100% in their eyes.
I had a critical thinking course in college where we couldn't even analyze the hypothetical of Fantine from Les Miserables; and if any of us would resort to prostitution as a last resort to feed our child. Some Mormon ran to the Dean of the English Department and threw a fit cause prostitution's naughty and it made their innocent little ears bleed. The professor got chewed out and caved and we didn't continue on with the the discussion next class... We were all punished because the mental 1% of the class was asked to think outside the box for once in their life, and it terrified them.
I'm tired of our society kowtowing to idiots who have a 2 inch comfort zone and a kiddy pool's depth of understanding of the world around them. Cause guess what happens in the real world? The "bad guy" gets to ride off into the sunset most of the time.
People miss the fact that Light killed innocent people. Lots of them. Or indirectly got innocent people killed as a result of his actions. His father died because of him and he didn't even care. He was pure evil.
You can blame all sorts of people. Whether it be fans, stations, advertisers ect. a lot of them cripple storytelling in the name of happy endings. That's what makes movies like Se7en all the better because it didn't have that run of the mill ending.
I don't think it's quite everywhere...but it is frustrating when it ruins a story that would have benefited going the darker/more sensible direction.
Plus let's be honest. A show like Dexter/Breaking Bad/Death Note wouldn't have got the go ahead to even exist as a TV show 30-40 years ago. Rod Serling talked about how difficult it was to tell certain stories on TV in his promotion of The Twilight Zone.
For as uptight as some of society is, we'd never have these stories or a show like Tosh.O back in the day. So progress is still there in that regard.
But have we progressed to the point where we should be? Nope. America, especially some states, Utah and Texas come to mind... Is probably 50 years behind socially compared to other similar cultures around the world. I honestly think I'd be much happier living somewhere in Europe, at least in regard to their programming...
There's always going to be certain bastion's of puritanism here holding the rest of us back, it's in the American genetic code.
crime and warfare had almost come to a screeching halt worldwide, and solely because of him.
So that justifies killing innocent people? Or killing anyone for the matter? Whether criminal or non-criminal?
I find your thought process quite bizarre. You're complaining about the lack of ambiguity in the central theme of justice and the dichotomy of right-wrong. Yet you simultaneously inverse-conflate the presumptions of reality with the assumptions of fiction.
Morality is a transience above all literary technique and form. It doesn't have to emulate all of realities because said reality is just as symbiotic as the art form it takes for granted.
This has nothing to do with the ambivalence of right/wrong! It has to do with coming full circle to complete the poetry of the character!
Light was a serial killer, a megalomaniacal, mentally unstable one one. it's foreshadowed that things would eventually turn sour even if he ended up succeeding. The ending was perfect.
So that justifies killing innocent people? Or killing anyone for the matter? Whether criminal or non-criminal?
Gee, I guess you'd have to ask the powers that be that same question. They'd obviously tell you yes, if they were being honest, since they didn't care about collateral damage up until Vietnam's media coverage made it unpopular and hurt their efforts there. Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki also come to mind... Pretty sure there's something about "wheat burning with the chaff" in the Bible as well; and Jihad's were typically targeted towards "innocents" by virtue that they weren't Muslim. So lets just throw the entire Christian and Muslim world in the mix as well. My opinion's pretty insignificant when billions are concerned. In fact the entire Twentieth Century is ripe with examples of people not giving a *beep* about the lives of innocents so long as they were able to achieve whatever goals they had set.
I find your thought process quite bizarre.
I feel the same about you, so your pretentious devil's advocacy aside... You pretty much missed the entire point of what I was saying. So disregarding all of that, I felt it was stupid that writers have some kind of moral imperative in fiction to punish a villain solely because not doing so would send a bad message to impressionable members of society. Another post on the thread explained why that is pretty well, and they felt progress has been made in that regard, obviously just not enough.
Myself and others listed examples of where that was explicitly stated as the reason for endings by the writers of several other series, and it's *beep* Light was a serial killer, a megalomaniacal, mentally unstable one one. it's foreshadowed that things would eventually turn sour even if he ended up succeeding.
And why should they? That doesn't reflect the real world now does it? Morally reprehensible behavior is not always met with justice, so why not tell that narrative? Oh wait, it'd be hard to sell to a studio because of reasons already mentioned. I stand uncorrected.
Gee, I guess you'd have to ask the powers that be that same question. They'd obviously tell you yes, if they were being honest, since they didn't care about collateral damage up until Vietnam's media coverage made it unpopular and hurt their efforts there. Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki also come to mind... Pretty sure there's something about "wheat burning with the chaff" in the Bible as well; and Jihad's were typically targeted towards "innocents" by virtue that they weren't Muslim. So lets just throw the entire Christian and Muslim world in the mix as well. My opinion's pretty insignificant when billions are concerned. In fact the entire Twentieth Century is ripe with examples of people not giving a *beep* about the lives of innocents so long as they were able to achieve whatever goals they had set.
What does this have to do with rationalizing Light's actions? I agree on technical levels of paralleling the harsh utilitarianism of how our world works. But I would assume you would say that in no way justifies Light.
I feel the same about you, so your pretentious devil's advocacy aside... You pretty much missed the entire point of what I was saying. So disregarding all of that, I felt it was stupid that writers have some kind of moral imperative in fiction to punish a villain solely because not doing so would send a bad message to impressionable members of society. Another post on the thread explained why that is pretty well, and they felt progress has been made in that regard, obviously just not enough.
Myself and others listed examples of where that was explicitly stated as the reason for endings by the writers of several other series, and it's *beep*
I have an issue with your reasoning because you're falsely conflating the assumptions of right / wrong with literary poetry. Light dying at the end was a poetic license of ending his character. It fits the mood of the show and the mood of the theme. If you're complaining that it left a sour 'message' in vein of reality's misfortune then you've strawmanned the very point of the ending.
Could you explain to me why the ending was bad? from a technical POV? Rather than rely on the criticisms of our current system / worldview in relation to the ending itself?
And why should they? That doesn't reflect the real world now does it? Morally reprehensible behavior is not always met with justice, so why not tell that narrative? Oh wait, it'd be hard to sell to a studio because of reasons already mentioned. I stand uncorrected.
Because it doesn't fit the theme of the story. It's really that simple. Light's power was a bolt from beyond all probability. Also, if you want to talk turkey about justice. P.S, he didn't meet justice for like a quarter of the whole effing show. He even WON in the first-half and spent some odd years in relative stability / no L before the time-skip began with Near. It's logical that eventually such a huge, unusual power would become the Damocles of your own undoing. Both logistically and emotionally.
The ending was completely poetic and fine. He had a nice long run slaughtering people. but it's time to pay the piper. not for the legal system's sake but for the sake of his inner demons. _______________________ PDBPO LEADER reply share
I think you are generally right about the bizarre focus on happy endings and "good always prevails", and that Light's speech after he confessed was over the top, as you mention later on, but I believe the writers of this show chose the best and most satisfying ending, rather than a moral ending. It was also very compatible with the earlier implied notion that two of L's successors, Near and Mello, were required to defeat Kira/Second L.
The end does not always justifies the means, nor do the means always justify the end. What kind of end would that be if there was an enforced world peace under Kira's terror, and that terror was progressively enforced to more and more people? That would be a dystopia rather than a utopia, which was supposed to be Kira's goal. Everyone, from the President of the United States to the non criminal "kind of lazy, non productive members of society", and maybe later people who were regarded as just stupid, would function under constant fear of death, and that is clearly not true peace.
You cannot enforce peace, that can only be done through global cooperation and by educating people. You also cannot enforce kindness. "Behave or else" does not lead to kindness, it just leads to pseudo-kindness out of fear. A world where Kira was the ultimate and eventually only law would be the absolute dictatorship, taking what the Nazis did to a whole new level.
Light was also too smug, thinking he could not ever be defeated, and at last he was surpassed by Near and partly Mello. That was extremely satisfying for me. I could clearly see a dark ending where Light eventually prevailed in his goal of creating his Dark New World, but I believe that world would soon collapse. Everyone would be functionally and emotionally crippled out of fear of being the target of Kira's wrath, so society's productivity and scientific and technological progress would plummet rather than rise. Fear blocks you, constant fear paralyzes you. It would be a return to the Dark Ages. But Light, despite all his genius, was too stupid to ever think about that. Or, if he did, he just did not care.
Would I accept a dark ending that would (clearly) lead to the above? Certainly. Ideally, if Light prevailed (and he almost did), all the above could have been suggested in a summary at the end, looking decades into the future. Not because it was the moral thing to show, but it was the logical thing to show. Plain old common sense alone would explain why the world would turn to $hit under Kira's rule, but some people lack even that, so I think such a summary should have been at the ending.
Fanboy : a person who does not think while watching.
Light was also too smug, thinking he could not ever be defeated, and at last he was surpassed by Near and partly Mello. That was extremely satisfying for me.
I can kind of see all sides of the debate here, but this part I disagree with for the simple fact that the second half of the show was written so much less intelligently than the first half. L was brilliant but only human, and flawed, capable of making mistakes and actions of highly questionable morality. Near however was written as a veritable superhuman who just magically and psychically managed to overcome Kira with ease, standing on the shoulders of L and his hard work. It felt to me like the second half of the series, both the story and characters, was just written very lazily, like the authors just wanted to get it over with in the easiest possible way. It wasn't as clever as the first half. For this reason, I couldn't find any satisfaction in it, and ever since the first time I watched it, I no longer watch past the episode where L dies. For me the second half is just a disappointment. Whether Kira or L won, it should have been Kira vs L to the end. I don't mind Kira losing (though the first time I watched it, I hoped for Kira to win partly for the reason similar to that elucidated in the OP, that everything always has to have a conventional "happy ending", and Kira winning would just be more interesting), but if he had to lose, he should have lost in a clever and satisfactory way. I don't think Near earned his victory. It was cheap, and as the OP says, it stunk of a shallow and hypocritical moralism that, IMO, weakened the whole story.
reply share