Did the 'sex' scene go too far? - Naissance des pieuvres (2007) Discussion

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] lathe-of-heaven 15 years ago

Uh... the proper reply is 'Not FAR enough'... Unless of course you are referring to yourself...

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[–] KamilaRead 17 years ago

Marie wasn't mesmerised, she was in love with her.

Florianne was attracted to Marie but was too scared of her feelings and was conscious of the role she must play: the pretty promiscous straight girl.

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[–] hooper-xxx 17 years ago

I'm more of the opinion that Floriane was sexually confused. She didn't know what she wanted. I do agree, however, that she was trapped in the role of an alpha female teen, so pretty that other girls instinctively hate her. I'm sure that had something to do with her acting out.

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[–] flowerybridge 17 years ago

While I can understand how this scene can seem voyeuristic and unnecessary, I believe it was important as it gave insight into the character of Floraine and made her seem a little more human, rather than simply the conniving girl that manipulates those around her. In the first half of the film, she's portrayed as being wholly sure of herself and always in the position of power. But in this scene, she submits herself to Marie and assumes the role of the timid, bewildered girl. The moment Floraine lost her virginity, a tear fell from her eye, possibly to show her understanding that she must now (in her mind) fully embody the role of the promiscuous girl. She cried for her lost of innocence--a little too late.
This scene was also central in foreshadowing the end of Floraine and Marie's bond, as Floraine decides to follow the path she believes she's been fated to, meaning she no longer needs Marie to confide in and protect her.

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[–] kok_warlock 17 years ago

Yeah, Marie was completely in love with Floriane, and she really wanted to get close to her and be with her, not talking just about sex, well, flowerybridge also explain far better than me, but that scene was central to their relationship.

Floraine at the end sort of transform herself in the bad, selfish girl people(at the movie) think she is, to the disappointment of Marie(and the rest of us) who truly cared for her.

PS: I hate Marie's friend, she had her role, but had way too much time, she was the pathetic, fat, childish girl.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] ellie_maracas 17 years ago

Thanks guys - those comments are really interesting. I'm still thinking of these scenes months later which is a sign of great script writing.

For my money though, I agree with Scheele-2 - the kiss was more indicative to me. Floriane, although she has vulnerable moments, will always use her sexuality to tease and manipulate. I don't think she ever truly cares for anyone...which makes her a very intriguing character.

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[–] Nocturne83 17 years ago

I think this is quite a lame question - what do you mean with "go to far" ? Apart from the fact that the whole point of the "sex scene" (which I wouldn´t really call a sex-scene at all since there is no "sex" in it) was to show how "unsexy" the first time really often is for girls (I can only imagine), thus making it passionless (anything else would boarder on something illegal!) and I think it really fitted in the movie because Marie really loves her and would do anything for Floriane, even that. Also, it clears up any doubts whether or not Marie was lesbian. Last but not least, it makes the ending stronger because Floriane doesn´t really care about Marie and that Marie ends up with her best friend after all.

-n0c-

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[–] ellie_maracas 17 years ago

I don't mean it to be a lame question. What i mean is, it is voyeurism for the sake of it? It felt misplaced to me and controversy just for the sake of it. And yes, I do feel it was a sex scene. I don't think Marie really loves Floriane - she is too young to know what 'love' truly is - she is beguiled by her due to her own confused sexual identity. She is captivated by the way Floriane behaves and how she flaunts her sexuality so overtly. It is contrasted with her own shyness and modesty. I do agree that it makes the ending stronger in a way, but i felt there was a lack of authenticity to the scene. For me the kissing scene was stronger in illustrating the real dynamic between the two of them.

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[–] hooper-xxx 17 years ago

I don't think Marie really loves Floriane - she is too young to know what 'love' truly is - she is beguiled by her due to her own confused sexual identity.

Okay, now I'm beginning to believe that you're a raving homophobe. It's absurd to suggest that a 15 year old girl is too young to know what love is. What color is the sky on your planet? Moreover, there was NOTHING confused about Marie's sexuality. Give me one example of her alleged confusion, just one. I'll even settle for a hint of confusion. Marie knew exactly who she was. Her love for Florian led her to compromise her character (and who hasn't been there) but she was clearly 100% lesbian. Florian was the one with the confused sexual identity. Marie was incredibly well adjusted in hers.

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[–] RhondaWeasley 16 years ago

Marie knew exactly who she was. Her love for Florian led her to compromise her character (and who hasn't been there) but she was clearly 100% lesbian. Florian was the one with the confused sexual identity. Marie was incredibly well adjusted in hers.

Here, here. While Marie was misguided in the object of her affection, she certainly wasn't the least bit confused about her own sexuality. She's proably one of the few teens I've seen portrayed in a film that was quite sure of her sexuality and not questioning it in any way at any point in the film. She knew exactly what she was feeling and was pretty much acting on the attraction.

Rhonda Weasley
http://www.myspace.com/silentbard

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[–] alarmanwp 16 years ago

But she never really acted on it, did she? When Floraine was ready to really be with her, she backed out...

That scene on the bed between Marie and Floraine was not really sex between them. It was Floraine losing her hyman so Francois would nt think she was still a virgin. It could have been more, much more than just a cherry popping; but as I watched Marie it became clear that although she desired Floraine, she wasn't really ready for sex yet.

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[–] RhondaWeasley 16 years ago

By 'acting on it' I didn't mean she was demonstrating sophisticated sexual prowess. I mean she put herself in the object of her affections path. That scene where she sort of introduces herself to Floraine in her own akward way is much bolder than *I* would have been with a girl I liked at her age. And in the girls who attentions (attentions, not affections) I gained, I wouldn't have been nearly as bold as she was. Having gone through those akward times, I'm just saying she seemed braver with her crush then I would have been.

Rhonda Weasley
http://www.rhondaweasley.com

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[–] alarmanwp 16 years ago

This confirms my point that this was not really intended as a sex scene...
strictly cherry-popping! If it was for sex, then there would have been more romantic contact between the two -- maybe a kiss during -- but nothing. It's interesting that after all of that deflowering, Floraine still doesn't have sex with Francois. It just goes to show that neither of them was really ready for their budding sexuality.

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[–] hooper-xxx 17 years ago

Also, it clears up any doubts whether or not Marie was lesbian.

That's odd. I never had any doubts that she was a lesbian, especially after she retrieved Floriane's garbage and ate an apple that Florian had bitten. It was pretty clear from the beginning of the film that she was head over heals in love with Floriane. Personally, I can't blame her.

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[–] lathe-of-heaven 15 years ago

Good point Hooper!

After all, it is a well known fact that lesbians love apples...

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[–] samos24 17 years ago

The fact that there was no passion in the sex scene for me, was a clear sign that sex, as seen by these girls, is more something they should do, and not something there really ready for. The kiss is the first time marie really shows Floriane she loves her, and not the sex scene in my opinion.

I'm having trouble explaining my point but i hope you get.

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[–] Boolproptesting 17 years ago

I actually found the sex scene rather disturbing.

It had impact; definitely a vital scene in regards to the relationship between Floriane and Marie.

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[–] alarmanwp 16 years ago

What i get is that a lot of people didn't get that this scene was not about sex at all...just losing a cherry.

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[–] lathe-of-heaven 15 years ago

Don't forget about the apples...

ILOVEtrading films!I've got a HUGE..uh..collection!Please ask!

____L@th3

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[–] blacknyellowsquid 9 years ago

The moment Floraine lost her virginity, a tear fell from her eye, possibly to show her understanding that she must now (in her mind) fully embody the role of the promiscuous girl. She cried for her lost of innocence--a little too late.

I thought the tear was because that *beep* hurts. This was confirmed in my mind by the fact that when Marie saw her tear, she stopped because she knew the deed was done. (Tear = pain = hymen broken)

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[–] DMCer 17 years ago

This whole film is lesbian propoganda at the expense of 15 year-old girls. That alone kept it from having an ounce of believability.

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[–] youth-decay 17 years ago

"This whole film is lesbian propoganda at the expense of 15 year-old girls. That alone kept it from having an ounce of believability."

Yes, because it really is beyond the bounds of possibility that 15-year old GIRLS might experience lesbian feelings. Because obviously, teenage desire is purely hetrosexual.

*sigh*

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] hooper-xxx 17 years ago

It captures perfectly how painful and confusing unrequited love is at such a young age.

It's still painful and confusing at 30.

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[–] markci 17 years ago

You're an idiot.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] bannor99 17 years ago

In many ways, girls are more "sexual" than boys - society's tolerance of physical affection among females makes it possible for them to explore avenues
that males don't dare for fear of being labelled.

A close, longtime female friend recently confessed that from the age of 10 to 15, she and the neighbourhood girls, as many as 8 at a time would, during outdoor slumber parties in her parents' backyard, would indulge in mutual masturbation and cunnilingus - they didn't consider themselves lesbians at all since, she claims, there was never any romantic kissing.

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] alarmanwp 16 years ago

"Boys do similar things as well"???? Are you kidding me??? Boys can't even look at another boy's unit while they are standing at the urinals without being labelled a "fag". The only boys willing to experiment sexually with other boys are the ones who are ready to go straight into the closet. While these girls are willing to experiment and even accept lesbian and straight feelings among them without much question, I disagree that boys have that same freeedom.

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[–] RhondaWeasley 16 years ago

"Boys do similar things as well"???? Are you kidding me??? Boys can't even look at another boy's unit while they are standing at the urinals without being labelled a "fag".

Yes, boys do experiment. It's such a myth that they don't. They just don't tend to admit they do as often as girls do. Nor are they allowed for it to be an 'experimental phase' (something granted girls often). It has happened that a gay boy and straight boy are friends and in those beginning years of puberty they jerk each other off and one boy thinks of it as something to do with someone who gets the feeling of the same newly emerging hormones while the other is thinking something entirely different, I know so. A gay boy got his heart broken that way. And he discovered he wasn't the only gay boy growing up that misinterpreted such a situation. Boys are just less likely to admit the things they might have done at the beginning stages of their sexual curioustiy, especially if they're not gay. And so many boys are not allowed to be bi that the boys that honestly are get to have quite a rough time during puberty.

Rhonda Weasley
http://www.rhondaweasley.com

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[–] lathe-of-heaven 15 years ago

Can we PLEASE just get back to the apples...?

ILOVEtrading films!I've got a HUGE..uh..collection!Please ask!

____L@th3

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[–] hooper-xxx 17 years ago

This whole film is lesbian propoganda at the expense of 15 year-old girls. That alone kept it from having an ounce of believability.

What an absurd statement. You can't possibly expect to be taken seriously when you suggest that 15 year olds aren't acutely aware of their sexual desires.
Also, the word is propaganda, not "propoganda."

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[–] verahta 13 years ago

Females mature sexually earlier than males, so I would be willing to bet on a pure logic point of view that the rate of teenage lesbianism is far greater than that of gay teen males.

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[–] Errington_92 12 years ago

Was it really necessary? It seemed kind of stupid and voyeuristic just for the sake of shock value.

It was by no means for shock value. This scene was pivotal in Floriane's true character as a young woman confused by her sexuality and social norms yet could never tear herself away from the personality she outwordly presented.

"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not".

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[–] samos24 17 years ago

...wow people can say some dumb *beep*

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[–] sadafka 17 years ago

I think that all of you guys just got it wrong (or maybe im wrong) probably cz u didnt watch the film with english subs!

Florianne asked Marie to be her first (i.e break her hymen! lol) because she had boyfriends but never had sex with them, probably cz she was too scared.

And if you have noticed they change the sheets after they have sex !

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] hooper-xxx 17 years ago

I'm not so sure though about the 'sex' scene with the two girls. Was it really necessary? It seemed kind of stupid and voyeuristic just for the sake of shock value. I don't think the younger character (sorry, can't remember her name while writing this) would really have done this...just because she was asked to.

Where was the shock? Teenagers experiment with sex; always have, always will. I didn't seem the least bit stupid to me. What does strike me as stupid is the puritanical attitudes of those who would censor real life situations with the repressed sensibilities of an American Hays Code era melodrama.

Additionally, I can't begin to fathom why you would think that Marie wouldn't have deflowered Floriane. She was madly in love with her.

I don't buy that she is that mesmerised with the older girl.

This, again, strikes me as utterly ridiculous. Are you suggesting that it isn't believable that a young lesbian would fall in love with another girl, who happens to be just brutally gorgeous? Unless you're completely asexual, I have to believe that belief must stem from some sort of homophobic aversion to same sex love. In any event, all three main characters were 15. Marie merely less physically developed than the other two.

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[–] central_p 17 years ago

WOW! Sex is soooo scary! It must be banned!

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[–] central_p 17 years ago

Well sometimes movies have unnecessary sex scenes that display just one: bad taste and sometimes sex scenes are way to short which again is bad taste. If there are sex scenes they should be done just right.
Now when I'm grown adult I prefer movies without stupid, boring sex scenes. If I want to watch sex I can watch porn :) and when I watch a movie I watch it for the story not for some crippled sex scene!

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[–] hooper-xxx 17 years ago

Could you rewrite your incoherent post at a time when you aren't tripping on shrooms?

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[–] lathe-of-heaven 15 years ago

Oh, no no, dude... it was perfect!

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