MovieChat Forums > In Treatment (2008) Discussion > Paul should NOT have seen Frances

Paul should NOT have seen Frances

posted 14 years ago by matahar
12 replies | jump to latest

Talk about another boundary-breaker.

Should a therapist see a former patient's sibling, outside of the context of family therapy?

Apparently not, especially since Paul's disdain for Frances was almost palpable. His chilly demeanor and lack of empathy confirmed Frances' suspicions that he had been in love with Trish. Frances was no shrink, but she knew that his disapproval of her was partly caused by the fact that he had been in love with her sweeter, less prickly sister, the person everyone in Frances' family (Russell, Izzie) favored. And having her shrink do so as well just reinforced her sense of being unlovable.

Way to go, Weston.

I often wondered if he even has a moral compass. After seeing the entire series, I think he's almost sociopathic.

"There's a lot of money in flowers."
Teddy Huffstodt

[–] pubbly 14 years ago

In the last session Frances explains to Paul the reason why she wanted him to be her therapist.

She says when Tricia dies, that leaves Frances all alone, with no one to remember what her childhood life was like.

And since Paul knew Tricia 18 yrs ago, Frances also felt like this was a way she could keep a part of Tricia alive (by way of the memories Paul has of Tricia).

So when one looks at it this way - was it really so bad that Frances seeks out someone who knew her sister - and could help her to keep those memories she had of her sister alive?

Gina to Paul: You begin by questioning your value as a therapist - you end by questioning mine.

[–] nodilettante 14 years ago

Hi Pubbly--We often agree, but I'm with the O.P. on this one.

Your argument doesn't make much sense.

Paul is forbidden from speaking about what Tricia told him in her therapy. His "link"
to the childhood of Tricia and Frances could only concern those things that Frances tells him.
He would not have been able to say, for example, "Yes, your sister also loved those picnics in
Central Park your mother took you to", because even though she is dead, it's still privileged.

Had Paul been a more competent and engaged therapist, he would have helped Frances to heal, and to build a relationship with her daughter, who is only 19. They potentially have a lifetime together.

But as the OP has said, Paul was colder to Frances than anyone...and think of what
a dramatic, urgent crisis she was in! Jesse was often self-indulgent, but Frances was dealing
with an impending death. Yet Paul disliked Frances, and she sensed it. He never warmed up to her.
If I were Frances, I'd be looking for a more professional shrink...someone like Adele.

This entire season was poorly thought-out, and the Frances storyline especially so.

N.D.

" I can't figure out if you're a detective or a pervert."

[–] ksouthworth68 14 years ago

In all fairness apparently Tricia and Frances were both cool with the situation. If I remember correctly Tricia recomended Frances consider Paul.

[–] Venus-25 14 years ago

I also agree that he shouldn't have taken Frances as a patient due to this boundary but as someone else pointed out, since both sisters were OK with it and Trish was his patient 18 years ago, that boundary is a little fuzzier than most others.

However, his detachment in dealing with Frances worked a lot better and Frances -- of all three patients this season -- has the best outcome.

Paul is usually a little too empathetic with his patients and that's what gets in the way of his being a better therapist. He isn't a sociopath, but he is a lonely man with issues who needs to deal with those if he is to continue in this profession.

The Fabio Principle: Puffy shirts look best on men who look even better without them.

[–] cflr 14 years ago

"However, his detachment in dealing with Frances worked a lot better and Frances -- of all three patients this season -- has the best outcome."

How true that Frances is the one with the best outcome. I would say that she was the only one who was better after having been in treatment. I just never saw any real progress with Jesse and, of course, Sunil was a truly bizarre case.

[–] Venus-25 14 years ago

Jesse could never have made progress; he had a poor relationship with the truth. How can one expect progress if he keeps on lying? As for Sunil, his lies and deceptions were very bizarre and there is no real resolution for Paul no matter what actually happens to Sunil.

The Fabio Principle: Puffy shirts look best on men who look even better without them.

[–] fidelio1980 14 years ago

I haven't seen every episode with Frances in it. But I'm under the impression that Frances never actually got Trish's permission, even though she said she did early on.

She initially told Paul something like, "My sister Trish recommended that I see you, because you helped her so much." But then in the second episode, she admits that she never sought permission from her sister to see Paul.

Paul then asks her why she lied to him, and she says, "I was afraid you wouldn't see me (if I didn't have Trish's permission)."

So unless something came up after that, where we learned that she really did get Trish's permission, then we should assume that was the truth. That she never sought Trish's permission to see Paul.

[–] nodilettante 14 years ago

Good point, Fidelio!

Patients constantly lie to their therapists. Not always at the level of Sunil,
but it's so commonplace. A good therapist, which Paul is not, can
eventually sense a pattern of deception.

Do you remember Amy from the first season? Was she constantly fabricating
facts and bending the truth?

" I can't figure out if you're a detective or a pervert."

[–] blueblazes 14 years ago

Paul's disdain for Frances was almost palpable. His chilly demeanor and lack of empathy confirmed Frances' suspicions that he had been in love with Trish.

I don't see how you can come to this conclusion. I didn't seen any palpable disdain, or unrequited love for France's sister. I saw weak writing.

FYI - A therapist would NOT refuse to seen a sibling.

[–] freshspoo 14 years ago

None of us should have seen Frances!

Marge

[–] Lootrock 13 years ago

I agree more or less with blueblazes. I didn't see any sort of "love" for Trish. Where did you guys get that from? I think Frances was shielding herself and was also vain. The vanity aspect was certainly acknowledged by Paul but he didn't hate her. I think he would find that assumption amusing if anything. If you'll remember, he mentioned to Adele that he had been seeing an actress who thinks she's a bit more popular than she actually is. That sentence summed up how he felt about Frances in a nutshell. I think if Frances stayed in therapy, mending her relationship with her daughter would have been the next step, but her daughter isnt the one dying, it's her sister, so why would he focus on her daughter when there's so much little time to prevent a pattern that Frances repeats which causes her so much distress?

On another note, why should Paul have refused to see Frances? There isn't a conflict of interest since Trish isn't in therapy anymore and he's not allowed nor would he really discuss details of Trish's therapy(with the exception of that one time).

[–] bruce-129 12 years ago

Good points all.

I think the courage of this show is to show life warts and all.

Therapists are human too … and this show is only a small peek.

They have to pay bills and so have to work hard with many patients.
The more patients they have the more money they get, the more
money they depend on and the more patients they need.

They work up to having too many patients, so one thing that is
idealized about this show is how much Paul knows and remembers
about his patients.

We see Paul having basically 1 patient a day … but there must be
others too reasonably.

How much could he have on his mind, and does he get overloaded and
short circuited by having to apply all his people smarts on other people
while his own life atrophies?

Does he get bored or contemptible of his patients … I bet yes.

Does he forget or maybe even mismatch stories … he did it this
season with Frances … and her sister transposing something they said.

that is why a good professional therapist I think maintains that distance
and boundaries, and cannot work miracles. Like anything it is up to the
person to make sense of their life or figure out what to do …

I think that is why to me things looked OK for Jesse even as his qutting
therapy hurt Paul - Jesse had to give up on his dreams of being an
arrogant intemperate artist and become a plumber with his Dad or
whatever his Dad did. I think Jesse's problems will eventually be
solved as he accepts his life and who he is.

He clearly did not really have the talent to be an artist, because being
an artist requires skills on multiple dimension … like people skills
that Jesse would not have or develop in a million years.

I really did not like Jesse, and that arc was hard to take, but I think it
actually ended pretty realistically - but then that is my opinion and I
could be wrong.

But Paul did help or play a role in Jesse's growing up, but in a strange
way that was not really satisfying to him that he did not even really
understand.

What I love about this show is the true to life almost zenlike lessons
it shows if you look closely.