MovieChat Forums > In Treatment (2008) Discussion > Can therapy really help ?

Can therapy really help ?


I mean I can see helping someone through something specific like loss or adjusting to a new environment like Frances and Sunil but people like Jesse and Paul who are so flawed how can therapy help them ? If someone like Paul , given his age , education and job cant see his own patterns then whats the point. Is he going to all of sudden one day in therapy get an ah ha moment and be ok. My point is , wouldnt someone like Paul and jesse have to be in therapy for years ?

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My opinion is that most people in therapy appear to get worse before they get better. That's what I see happening with Sunil.

As for Paul, he's been in therapy on and off with Gina for years and that was a huge mistake. They have too much other history for that to have been healthy. He probably needs about two years with another therapist to fix this. Jesse needs to accept himself for who he is and to stop lying. That may take two or three years in therapy along with some level of achievement to give himself a little self-esteem.



The Fabio Principle: Puffy shirts look best on men who look even better without them.

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[deleted]

If a therapist can't identify a patient's issues or can't get him to face them, s/he's not accomplishing anything. If a therapist is too single-minded about what constitutes appropriate therapy and this is uncomfortable for the patient, this also won't work.

Also, some patients don't want to get well. They fear losing the comfort of their misery.



The Fabio Principle: Puffy shirts look best on men who look even better without them.

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Venus,

Adele noticed how Paul identifies with Sunil. Paul also seemed to identify with Laura and her situation (Laura dealing with a depressed Father like Paul deals with his Bi Polar Mother).

So Paul does seem to be able to identify the issues a patient has, and he can sometimes also get them to face them?

But do you also recall back in Season One how he "Brags" to Gina about what a "Thrill" he gets from being able to "Manipulate" some of his patients?

Gina also got upset when he said that and told him this wasn't what therapy was about?

When Paul brags to Adele about how he has a "Special Window" into what's bugging Sunil, doesn't that also seem like still another "Red Flag" or warning sign for us that Paul lets his "Big Ego" get in the way whenever he's treating some of his patients?

Take the case with Frances. Each time she's made an attempt to "personalize" the therapy (get him to read lines with her or feed her some food), he refuses.

But when Sunil or Jesse do this Paul lets them get away with it? Sunil smokes, drinks tea. Jesse is allowed to disrupt Paul's time with Max (then Jesse also tells Paul he should never have let him get away with doing that)?

So why is Paul able to treat Frances in an "Inflexible" or "Rigid" manner - or the way Adele does Paul (according to Paul) - but he's much more "Flexible" with Sunil and Jesse?

If he's going to "Baby" Sunil, who's already "Too Dependent" upon his son and DIL, then isn't this also going to make Sunil that much more dependent? And how does Paul expect Sunil to become "Independent" enough to get a job so he can pay rent for his own place when Paul treats Sunil the same way his son Arun does?

Arun buys Sunil candy and tobacco. Paul lets him smoke and drinks tea with him? In other words, don't both of them "Baby" him, coddle him, and encourage Sunil to remain dependent upon them?

So doesn't it also appear as if a patient needs more than just "Love" and "Understanding" as a way to get well?

Doesn't Paul also seem like one of the patients who clings to the comfort of his misery and has no desire to get well?



Gina to Paul: You begin by questioning your value as a therapist - you end by questioning mine.

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Part of Paul's problem seems to be his relationship with his mother, a situation where where he felt "Trapped."

Since his job also involves being a "Caretaker" to his patients, the same way as he was a "Caretaker" for his mother, and he still complains about feeling like he's "Trapped in a mousetrap," if Paul would stop being so resistant to Adele's attempts to help him, it probably also wouldn't take "years" for Paul to realize this?

Look at the situation with Laura. She keeps "Running Away" from having an intimate relationship with her fiance Andrew - because she also felt "Trapped" in the relationship she had with her Father - where Laura also became his "Caretaker" after the death of her mother.

So what she flees from (whenever she runs into the arms of the guy in the bathroom stall, or into the arms of Alex, or Paul), is having another intimate relationship where she's afraid she'll feel "Trapped" again?

Paul may have also been married to Kate for several years, but it also appears Paul may have spent more time in that therapy room and with his patients than he did with Kate or his kids?

Didn't Paul's choice to be with Jesse instead of with his son Max also illustrate this to us?

Paul's priority was his patient? They came first. Max came last?

In other words, perhaps Paul's just as "Trapped" by his relationships with his patients, and tending to their needs, as he was when he cared for his mother?

And if Paul is ever able to see this, and how "Paralysed" he's become (as Adele puts it), then Paul might also be able to "Free" himself from the patterns of his behavior that is making him feel just as miserable as Laura felt due to the way she behaved?

Didn't Laura also tell Paul after a year of being "In Treatment" with him that she no longer wanted to be in a relationship anymore that wasn't a meaningful one?

Didn't that also sound as if Paul had "Helped" Laura to heal (inspite of the way he also pursues her when he should not have)?

Didn't Sophie also seem to benefit from Paul's help?

Didn't Gina also seem to have been helped out of her state of depression by the process of treating Paul?



Gina to Paul: You begin by questioning your value as a therapist - you end by questioning mine.

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I think the easiest situations where therapy helps are those where a person has a specific situational problem to deal with - like sudden loss, or getting out of a bad relationship, or something that has happened more recently. Long-term personality or behavioral problems have got to be harder to treat. I think if they're lucky enough to find a therapist that they click with even people with deep-rooted problems can benefit by learning coping and behavior modification skills.




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As others have said, therapy is probably most helpful for those dealing with a specific situation, like a loss or sudden life changing event. I think that the client needs to know when to stop the therapy because most therapists are not going to cut off the income stream.

I was in a relationship with a clinical psychologist for a while. She spoke very candidly about psychology as a business. She admitted that she probably can't help more than half of her regulars (or "lifers" as she called them), but she was not going to discourage them from coming back. She also described couples therapy as nearly always useless.

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Just watched a really interesting movie - one with subtitles too - which probably also means Paul might have liked it?

It was called:

A Year Ago in Winter

It's about a young girl (a dancer) who's lost her younger brother. He kills himself. Then the girl's mother also asked an artist to paint a portrait of the brother and sister together by a piano.

What's interesting is how the artist who paints the portrait has pretty much the same effect on this girl as Paul does on Sophie and Gina due to the way he's able to help the girl heal from the pain she's feeling over the loss of her brother.



Gina to Paul: You begin by questioning your value as a therapist - you end by questioning mine.

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like Paul said in one of the other seasons what these people really need is love and understanding. Its true

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like Paul said in one of the other seasons what these people really need is love and understanding.


Aww, that's so cute!

Like Jack Donaghy says, yes therapy can help, but only the lesser beings, like men with curly hair or people who need glasses.

In my opinion.

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[deleted]

I've tried to talk to a therapist about my own issues . . . on two separate occasions: once in high school, and once a few years ago.

I never got past a couple of visits.

I think my issue was one of trust. It takes A LOT for me to open up about stuff that bothers me. I could only do it to someone I was close to, someone who I feel I have a bond or a strong relationship with. The distant, clinical, sterile approach does NOT work with me at all. It's a complete waste of time.

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"Can Therapy Really Help ?"

Isn't this the question Paul himself was tortured by? The reason for his dissagreement with first Gina and then really Adele?. Isn't that the argument that is simmering below almost every thread created on this board? The tension is usually between those who essentially agree with Paul that "a little love and understanding" may go a longer way to making less difficult emotional and mental problems and those who argue for a more clinical approach to the profession of psychotherapy. This clinical almost anticeptic approach demands an unnatural distance between doctor and patient. Isn't this what the transference and counter transference argument is really all about?

Imo, a professional trained to recognize certain patterns in human behavior can play an important role in helping someone discover the issues that are playing a significant if 'hidden' role in their lives. Having done this, they can also help that person consider more objectively what factors are influencing their decisons and deal with them. However, I believe most of these 'maladies' can and are also frequently dealt with simply by applying a sincere ear and genuine empathy to someone else. It isn't an either or proposition. there is a role for therapy but it clearly is not the ONLY or a FOOL PROOF way these issues can be addressed.

"The horse has been taken to the well. "

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I'm right with Thespear here, having a therapist that can identify patterns and reveal them to you in ways that are meaningful and so you understand them is one of the most important elements of therapy; that is, if it is achieved. Love and understanding only go so far. It is important to have that as a base for certain types of people who need it, so that what is said and observed is meaningful, but too much can backfire once the patient becomes a victim too often by virtue of receiving so much empathy and understanding as opposed to being exposed to the ways in which they make their own lives the way it is. I've been in therapy on and off for a decade and I can tell you that this balance is DIFFICULT for many(therapists). Part of it has to do with how much focus, too much freedom can be given to the patient and it hinders making headway in specific areas as opposed to being tangential and never quite getting anywhere. Another part is the patient side. Many don't want therapy or at least they're not really willing to accept what therapy really is. If you haven't agreed with yourself to do what it takes and give life a chance without being a victim all the time, therapy may be just like banging your head agaisnt the wall. I know because I've been there myself and I've seen it in countless other people. Unfortunately, either therapists are not perceptive enough to pick up on it or they just aren't willing to explicitly say it or make it known how important this part is.

About psychology being a business, I feel it is very unethical for therapists to not refer you to someone else if they don't think they can help you. I personally think it's despicable. The person they're treating may be hopeful and not even know that they're wasting their time, it's a shame.

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[deleted]

That's the question, you might as well ask, can love help, can friendship help? Maybe.
It might depend on the person and what help means.

I agree Jesse looks so scewed up. I think he has ADD or something, maybe PTSD from something in early life. He is out there and without any idea of what is going on with himself.

It can work. Or partially work, in the sense that Paul seemed to intuitive get that Adele was telling him valuable stuff, but his pride was hurt and it took him a long time, and ultimately he thinks he does not want or need it - because he gets away acting like a kid, like Jesse. I think it was no coincidence that Jesse's outburst is followed by Paul's outburst in Adele's office to show they are both the same - ie. human beings.

But Paul does get it, he just has a lot to get and integrate, and he is used to his defense mechanisms and being spoiled or passive aggressive.

It's a really fascinating show.

But if you do not try to figure it out and see what's going on with yourself, then you have little chance of overcoming destructive behaviors.

It is perverse that we are created to be able to see other people better than we can see ourselves. They've done studies where they asked people and then their friends to predict that person's bahavior. A person's friends usually know the person and can predict their behavior better than the person themselves … so therapy has a basis … now will that work, is it enough … not necessarily.

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It can help. But studies seem to show that it isn't really much better than having one or more friends to talk to about problems.

It is better to be kind than to be clever or good looking. -- Derek

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