Nanna has a necklace in her hands which originally owned one of Vagn's earlier victims (called Mette Hauge). When and why should Vagn have given Nanna the necklace?- This is an important detail, because it links the two crimes, and the police now concentrates upon a person who has known both victims.
English is not my first language. Any corrections are welcome.
Bump.
I agree, this is the only question which has bugged me since the show finished. Why would Vagn give her the necklace and why would Nanna clutch on to it as she drowned? :S
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In the 1st episode Vagn had a cut on is neck did he have the neckless on and Nanna grab it
shareIn the 1st episode Vagn had a cut on is neck did he have the neckless on and Nanna grab it
shareMaybe he didn't give it to her. If I recall Vagn was the one who gave Mette the black necklace she was found with. Maybe it was one of a pair and he had one as well. I'd guess it would be quite difficult to buy one so similar 15 years later, and as you say why would Vagn buy one to give to Nanna?
If so you could maybe guess Vagn was wearing it when he attacked Nanna, who pulled it off of him.
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I am very sure that the necklace is supposed to be be the same. When Lund sees is on the photo of Mette Hauge (sp?), she thinks it is the one found in Nannas hand. Later on, Lund says that a) Mette's parents did not give that necklace to her daughter (= she must have got it from someone else) and, more important, b) after Mettes disappaering the necklace wasn't found in her things and stuff. So it is quite clear that Vagn 1) gave the necklace as a present to Mette, 2) took it away after killing her, 3) handed it to Nanna (so that it could be found in her fist). - And this last point is the one that buggs me. Why should Vagn have done this? - I tend to consider it as a script error.
English is not my first language. Any corrections are welcome.
Vagn didn't give Nanna Mette's necklace. Vagn must have been wearing it and she pulled it off his neck and was discovered clasping it tightly (as per ep1). We know Vagn was seen with a plaster on his neck in ep 1, which must have been the result of Nanna yanking the necklace off him with force.
shareThat sounds very reasonnable, bendipa.
I'm glad to be proven wrong when I thought it might have been a script error, because I like this show so much. :-)
English is not my first language. Any corrections are welcome.
I don't think that holds up...
If Vagn was indeed wearing the necklace when he killed her, then when the cops came around questioning, since all her final effects would have been shown to her parents as part of the investigation (I remember they did show them pictures of all the stuff they found in the school basement boiler room, for e.g.) - I'm sure lots of folk could have have mentioned that they had seen Vagn wearing it, making short work of the story!
That presumes Vagn regularly wore the necklace. Vagn confessed to having difficulty killing NBL in cold blood. He took her to his old killing ground and wore the necklace to rekindle his homicidal mindset.
Hmm.. a tad far-fetched, I think.
So he specifically and calculatingly and premeditatedly remembered to wear a specific necklace without which he couldn't go through with the murder? It was of so much significance to him? Yet he neglected to retrieve it after the act? Even though he was able to trim her nails and clean her hands, etc etc before disposing the body?
I guess we could always come up with all kinds of wacky/contrived explanations trying to force the pieces to fit - but in my opinion, its more apparently a plot hole .
That is not my understanding of the plot. Vagn chemically cleaned NBL and trimmed her nails whilst she was under sedation over the weekend in the basement. After failing to intimidate her to remain silent about his brutal rape, he planned a false trail in the forest for Sunday night.
After hunting her down he still could not kill her so carried her to the politician's car before steering it into the canal. NBL was still alive in the boot.
Presumably, in a struggle between capture and the vehicle, she ripped the necklace from his neck. Hence the plaster on Vagn's neck in the opening episode that all could see and no character questioned.
In the heat of the moment Vagn failed to recover the necklace. It's the only evidence he left at the scene but it only connected him through his earlier victim (unless, of course, there was recoverable amounts of DNA on the chain).
No plot hole evident here.
If as you say - "Presumably, in a struggle between capture and the vehicle, she ripped the necklace from his neck. Hence the plaster on Vagn's neck in the opening episode that all could see and no character questioned" -
well, then - the point initially raised remains stubbornly unanswered. If there was such a struggle - her nails and hands would not have been sterile of any evidence from the struggle. There would have been scratches, blood, etc etc.
Also - why would he trim/clean her nails while she was under sedation, if he was was planning on intimidating her to keep quiet? If she did agree to keep quiet - then there's no need for the cleaning. If she didn't agree to keep quiet - he would have to kill her - and it would make sense to do the cleaning AFTER the killing to make sure that there were no final traces of him right before the disposal of the body. That seems logical, given that he was calculating enough to plan and carry out such a thorough sterilization.
In fact - the whole idea that he thought he could "intimidate" her to keep quiet - sounds quite ludicrous. He didn't just box her ears, you know! The brutality she would have to bear for a lifetime, the shattering of her plans to leave with Amir, the betrayal of his biggest benefactor (her dad & his family)... you really think he considered she would keep quiet??
So either way you look at it - it just doesn't jell.
The autopsy report said NBL was bathed and cleaned up BEFORE being taken to the woods. It makes sense as there was no intention of physical contact in Vagn's original plan.
Vagn may well have worn the gum shoes and zipped waterproof hunting cape he was killed in. Along with long gloves the only exposed flesh would be his head (including the neck where he wore the plaster).
Salt marshes have a high organic content that contaminates, and prevents the isolation of, human DNA. Mud clogs the pores and trimmed nails in which scrapings could collect.
It was repeatedly stated NBL drowned in the car. Vagn could not clean her up after killing her as you suggest.
Ludicrous as the possibility of release appears to us, Vagn was in a jamb: for two days he was unable to murder her or set her free.
He thought his attack was rational; he thought he was acting in Theis' best interest; I think he tried to justify drowning her because of her refusal to be 'reasonable'. It may not have been a practical proposition but it was an option he took seriously. He wanted her to remain silent about the perpetrator not the attack.
Bravo! That's a good possible explanation of the mechanics of the execution. I went back and viewed the portion dealing with the forensics report - and (this is the part that didn't stick in my memory) - you're right - he does say that the killer likely cleaned her up BEFORE they set out for the woods. And they did find traces of ether in her liver - confirming the sedation.
The only part I still have a little trouble with is that he needed to wear the necklace expressly for purposes of the killing, and never else (and therefore wasn't ever seen before by the Larsens or his co-workers). But with the other things coming together - I'm going to set that aside for the greater good.
So I guess - he had her in the basement for a couple of days and had his way with her, needed to eventually get rid of her, so he sedated her, did the sterilization, and dumped her in the car and headed for the woods. He parked in the woods, opened the doors to get her out, but maybe she had come to by then, and made a break for it, leading to the chase. He recovered her, probably either hauled her back to the car and trussed her up (or trussed her up and hauled her back) - during which the necklace got ripped off and she hung on to it. And as you say - if he was in his poncho and stuff - she probably didn't get a good enough grab at him that was worth anything forensically. And then he shuts the door and maneuvers it into the lake.
Thanks for the good discussion. I'm glad to have gotten that out of the way.
Vagn obviously wore the necklace inside his clothes where no one could see it. NBL probably pulled it off as he was putting her in the car boot and simply didn't notice what had happened in the struggle.
Despite the psychologist's profile, he probably wasn't a serial killer, just an opportunistic one. The first victim was an ex-girlfriend who he obviouly held a torch for - hence retaining and wearing the necklace.
The necklace isn't a plot hole IMHO, but I could name half a dozen or more genuine holes big enough to bury a fleet of buses!
That part is very likely a plot hole. They say Nanna's nails have been clipped to remove all traces of the killer. Surely that makes it impossible for her to hold that necklace in her hand without the killer noticing it. So when exactly did Nanna pull that necklace off the killer and when did she start to clinch it?
Look! A ladder! Maybe it leads to heaven, or a Bismarckbrötchen.
You gave the answer yourself :)
He clipped her nails probably in the bassment of the house. Then, when he had to tie her up, she manages to pull the necklace off him (without him noticing, pretty hard, I know). So then he ties her up, and does not notice that she is holding the necklace very firmly in her hands.
Vagn is a serial killer.That necklace is the connection.Otherwise Nanna case would be a passion of crime not a serial killing.Vagn gets humiliated and rejected by Nanna.These clues are spread through all episodes and are not given in whole in one episode.you might get distracted.Answer to when is not clear but it's just before Vagn kills Nanna.Probably in the woods.He might give her in the room.Answer to why is the same reason when Vagn gave the same necklace to Mette Hauge.It might be a ritual or ceremony.If they dig into Hauge's body they could have found more common rituals.This is also explained by Lund's boyfriend when he's in the hospital after the accident.
shareVagn probably put the necklace on her for the same reason he clipped her nails: to adorn her, to make her the kind of girl he wanted her to be while having his way with her in the basement.
Then, when she escapes him in the forest or when she's already in the back of the car she probably rips the necklace from her neck and holds it tightly in her hand at which point she knows she might die and this is the last thing she could do to help the police identify her killer.
I don't see any logic in Vagn wearing the necklace himself. It's obviously the kind that goes around a woman's neck.
Cue the sun!
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She had her hands tied in front of her -- not behind her back -- when she was found, so she would have been able to snatch it from her neck when she was lying in the back of the car.
Cue the sun!
More unbelievable is that Vagn was Mette's highschool boyfriend for years. Wouldn't he have been the first one the police interrogated at the time? Supposedly Lund only finds out about this now from her ex-roommate. And they didn't dredge the canals for her body? Her bike was found nearby. Lund finds that out in five minutes at the water station. We're asked to believe that the first murder was barely investigated.
And I don't understand the sequence of events. How did Vagn and Nanna end up at Hartmann's apartment after he stopped her departing at the train station?
Jens Holck didn't do anything accept date her, months before the murder? Why would he attempt to kill two people to hide this?
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Tally-ho, my fine saucy young trollop!