You know what I mean? They say "sore-E". That used to drive me crazy when I was little cause Nickelodeon was plagued with it.
But this movie was good. Nice character development strengthened with good acting. Some decent humor scattered into entertaining dialogue. Plausible costumes splattered with so-so gore.
I don't think America is the center of the universe...I just think we pronounce the english language overall better than others up to and including the english themselves.
Not in all cases...southern dialects as well as Boston, Minnesota and some New York (Bronx, Queens) accents are horrible and mispronounce a lot...but the standard mid-western accent pronounces almost everything correctly.
When you spell out english words phonetically (or the way they are meant to be pronounced) and you compare the phonetic pronounciation with the actual pronounciation...standard midwestern pronounces almost everything correctly/phonetically.
For example, "sar-EE" is the phonetic spelling of "sorry". (different dictionaries spell it with slight variations, but this is the general way it should be pronounced) No matter what your accent, if you pronounce it phonetically, you will say it the same way as everyone else. Canadians, for example, say it "sore-EE". That is an incorrect (or at the very least, secondary) phonetic pronounciation.
Except the English language generally isn't pronounced phonetically. Which is why people who learn to read phonetically have real problems with spelling.
Your arrogance is a little troubling. Suggesting that you know how the English language was intended to be spoken.
Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!
Your arrogance is a little troubling. Suggesting that you know how the English language was intended to be spoken.
The English language was never intended to be spoken in any particular way, because it wasn't invented in a day by someone. It is an evolution of speech over a vast ammount of time. Generally, and with few exceptions, the English language is indeed pronounced phonetically. (not using the phonetic spellings of 200 years ago or anything...since language evolves, so has the phonetic spellings. Using modern day phonetic spellings, the English language is pronounced that way.) That's what phonetically is, it is the direct spelling of sounds. The English language is very much pronounced phonetically, it just isn't always spelled phonetically. That is why people who learn to read phonetically have trouble spelling. Because the accepted spelling doesn't match the phonetic spelling. So we spell a lot of words differently than they sound. But if we spelled everything phonetically, we would be spelling it exactly how it sounds.
Ah, typical english person. Beliving they can do no wrong and their s#!t doesn't stink. I'm in radio broadcasting and spent most of my college time doing elocution work no less than you did. Also spent some of that time studying the various ways different regional dialects and accents pronounce certain things, including some english dialects that tent to screw up pronounciations royally. Cockney for one is a terrible accent in terms of phonetic pronounciations.
Now, to be fair (and like I've already stated) there are many American accents that pronounce things badly too and there are accents attributible to just about everywhere that say things wrong and, technically, there is nothing wrong with pronouncing things incorrectly if you are from somewhere that everyone pronounces it as such (i.e., Ebonics pronounce "ask" as "ax" and any "th" sound as an "f", and though that is quite definitely wrong pronounciation) then it works for the region. But when you look up words in the dictionary that provide phonetic spellings and the way you pronounce it is different, it's hard to say that you are pronouncing it "right."
Get off your high horse, the world didn't begin and nor will it end with the english. I've been there, you are not all as brilliant as you would like to think.
I don't think America is the center of the universe...I just think we pronounce the english language overall better than others up to and including the english themselves.
What - the - F_CK!?
This dude has got to be tapped. Does he even realise he just contridicted himself...
I'm Aussie I definately know that we have strong accents in the eyes of any other country...But that goes for everyone. Doesnt mean my accent is correct. It's just different. Who the hell am I to say I do it best.
What a tool. Sore-E mate, you're an idiot.
I have inside me blood of kings - YEAH!
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No, i didn't contradict myself. Just because they are english does not mean they automatically speak english better than everyone else. Every country has regions where accents are very thick and lots of people from all over pronounce things wrong.
I'm saying that there is a loose agreement as to how all the words in the english language should be pronounced (hence the phonetic spellings in dictionaries) and the Standard-Midwestern (or General American) dialect, a dialect that is an entirely American one, comes closest to pronouncing them, for the most part, correctly.
The entire principle of the Standard Midwestern dialect is to reduce accent to a minimum (or eliminate it entirely). Leaving the pure phonetic pronounciations. It doesn't always succeed and small imperfections do creep in, but overall, it strives to be as close to the phonetic pronounciations as possible.
Jesus, if we could all get over our xenophobic "I can't ever admit that my way of doing things isn't the greatest" bullsh!t for a moment. (and yes, I know how that sounds coming from me when I am claiming my way of speaking is more correct, so don't bother pointing out the hypocrisy) But i'm just saying, if your way of speaking works for you, fine! Great! Grand! Wonderful! But in the end there is an established phonetic spelling leading to correct pronounciations of all english words. Standard-Midwestern strives to align with those pronounciations. Most dialects don't. Most dialects just speak how it works for them.
Every country has regions where accents are very thick and lots of people from all over pronounce things wrong.
Pronounce things wrong?!
Who the hell are you to say your accent is 'correct'? Dont drown me in your bullsh*t excuses dude. I don't care how you justify it. YOU ARE WRONG. No one's accent is correct. Dialect is dialect dude. You just think you are the centre of the universe.
How easy could it have been for me to say my accent was right and every other iteration of English is wrong. No that would make me racist...
I have inside me blood of kings - YEAH!
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How easy could it have been for me to say my accent was right and every other iteration of English is wrong. No that would make me racist...
How you speak is not attributable to race, dumbass.
And I don't know if you are not getting my point or if you are just being thick because you think I am somehow trying to insult you and others (which I am not). There are agreed upon pronounciations of all english words (see phonetic spellings in the dictionary). Standard Midwestern strives to pronounce all words according to the generally agreed upon phonetic pronounciations. Most dialects don't.
If you can't understand that, then screw off. Jesus...people around here get too damn uppity.
Did you just say Americans speak English better than English people? I'm not even from England and I know that's ridiculous (I'm a Canadian, and I don't say anything the "wrong" way, thanks). Who was speaking the language long before America even existed...? I'm pretty sure it was not Americans.
I'm "sar-EE" but has anybody from the mid-west watched the movie Fargo? Fargo is about as Midwest as you can get and I would hope that is not what the English language is suppose to sound like.
Midwestern sounds like Sarah Palin and please do not tell me Sarah Palin is correct.
Geographically, you are correct that Minnesota (the region from Fargo) is technically in the Midwest, but the dialect you heard is called "Northern Interior" and is common for Minnesota, Wisconsin and parts of Michigan. When I say I speak "Standard Midwestern", that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone in the entire Midwest speaks that way. It is just the general classification of what is considered to be the most widespread and popular of American dialects. For instance, New York is not in the Midwest, but all the character on "Friends" (with the possible exception of Joey) spoke Standard Midwestern. In fact, the majority of American television utilizes Standard Midwestern for their dialogue...including if you watch the broadcast news programs out of places in the deep south, you will often hear the newscasters speaking with a Standard Midwestern accent (not in every case, mind you) despite the heavy southern accent most in that region have.
I am the first to admit that there are some American dialects that butcher the english language, no doubt. But those accents are not the majority.
I think what you consider to be Midwestern accents are just mild accents that may be hard to see as different especially if you live in or are from that region.
When you speak the English language and attempt to sound as if you have no accent it will come very close to what you perceive the Midwestern accent to be. I still hear a small accent from people in the Midwestern when I hear them speak that differs from the way the cast of friends and newscasters speak.
The accent of the Midwest is not as hard as the other accents of the US but it is still there just slightly. If I had to pick an accent that sounded the most accent-less I would indeed choose the Midwest but I would also say newscasters and actors in general do a better job on average of sounding without an accent then the average Midwesterner. There are still words when spoken by a Midwesterner that seem to have more of a twang or harder nasal or R sound then I see as the more ideal way of pronouncing the word. I would not go so far as to say the television industry models their way of speaking on the Midwest.
People from Detroit seem to think the have a perfect accent-less way of speaking but as outsiders we can see that it is far from the truth. Everyone thinks their way of saying things is the most correct way but without a governing body saying which is correct and which is not I think it is fair to say there is no region without an accent and to assume one region is the base of a language and everything else is a deviation of such would be incorrect and a bit arrogant.
Now if you compare the standard TV accents which seem to be almost no existent to the originators of the English language you will see a huge difference. Is it correct to think the English have an accent? I don't know. To me it sounds like an accent yet they are the creators of the language? Yes there are very many sub accents of England but they all seem to deviate around a similar sound, the same as Australian, New Zealand and South African (and some parts of India). They all sound very similar but when compared to North American English it is very different almost not even close. When we look at phonetic spelling you might say we sound more correct. Yet that is still based on the basic sounds that we understand differently from the British and their colonies. Who is correct? We all are based on what we understand (Except Ebonics, that is less of an accent and simply poor grammar.)
Now let us look at when you sing. It seems almost magical that most accents are dropped or servery reduced. Would you think Bono were Irish is you only ever heard him sing? This is another can of worms and completely off topic but it gets you thinking doesn't it?
I don't disagree with anything you said, but we are kinda going off topic taling about accents in the first place as Canadians (who use the dialect utilized by the actors in this movie) and Americans (who speak standard midwestern) have virtually the exact same accent. They speak exactly the same, they just pronounce certain words differently. And I like how you bring up singing causing accents to drop...when singing songs with the word "sorry" in them, does it get pronounced 'sore-EE' or 'sar-EE'? I have never heard it pronounced 'sore-EE' in any song.
I have just listed to the Leona Lewis version of the song "Sorry Seems to be the hardest word", kind of fitting for this thread I think and when she sings the word sorry it sounds more like "sore-EE" then "sar-EE". Sar-EE just seems to sound like the least correct way of saying sorry with the hard AR sound. The key to the word sorry sounding most correct seems to from from pronouncing the O as an O and not an A. A hard O like in the word Sore does not seem to be correct, a softer O sound like Leona uses sounds a lot better then a hard A like the the disease SARS.
Whenever I hear sorry pronounced as sar-EE I think of all the rednecks in my area who have a very loose grip on the English language, it just doesn't sound as correct as when I hear it pronounced on various TV shows as being closer to sore-EE.
I just went on youtube and watched Leona Lewis's version of that song. I then watched Elton John's version. I then watched Blue's version. Each and every one of them pronounced it sar-ee. Not a one of them said anything remotely close to sore-ee.
Soft O? What are you talking about? A hard O makes the word 'sore-ee' which sounds wrong. An A sound makes is sar-ee (which is exactly how every one of them sang it). A soft O...what would that even be? Soe-ree?
I mean, its difficult to express because there aren't many words that sorry as it is generally pronounced rhymes with...well, "stary" maybe. Like, "It's a nice night, the sky is bright and stary tonight." Maybe the emphasis isn't placed on the 'EE' but on the 'SAR' instead, but they are all definitely pronouncing it SAR like the disease SARS. Not a one of them was saying sore, like "OW, my arm is sore".
Who the *beep* cares?!? People all over the world pronounce words differently...in the grand scheme of things, is it that important?? I personally do not believe there is a right or wrong way to say certain words, ie. SORRY...say it however the *beep* you want, I think we can all understand the freaking word...geez!
Give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish.
Well, obviously people all over the world pronounce things differently and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter, but does that mean that it can't ever be discussed or talked about in any way? What, only the topics of massive global importance can ever be brought up? If we feel like having a conversation about differing accents, what's the frickin' harm in that? If it were bad form to discuss things that made absolutely no difference in the broad scheme of things, you should be shaming everyone who talks about "American Idol" long before you should be giving us crap about discussing accents.
'Get off your high horse, the world didn't begin and nor will it end with the english. I've been there, you are not all as brilliant as you would like to think'
No it didn't begin with us but we were around a LONG time before the americans were AND the language is named after our country! I speak the proper Queens english and come from a place where we have virtually no accent. I am right and you are wrong - try to deal with it like a big boy now.....
Canadians are universally known to be far more educated and intelligent than their American brothers, therefore their pronunciation of the word "sorry" is the correct one. How Americans managed to establish the word with a hard "ARE" when it has no "A" present at all, is unbelievable to say the least. Only Americans...
- One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion.
Canadians are universally known to be far more educated and intelligent than their American brothers
HAHAHAHAHA!!! ...what? Oh, you are being serious? Yeah, we went from a bunch of farmers under the thumb of England to the number 1 superpower in the world in record time because we are dumb. We split the atom because we are uneducated. We are on the cutting edge of all medical technology and research because we are un-intellegent.
I wouldn't say that Canadians are especially unintellegent (maybe they could use a lesson in humility or two if the previous poster is any indication) but to say they are more intellegent than Americans is laughable.
But, I guess it has become just so downright fashionable to talk smack about America and Americans in general for just about anything. Oh well, sour grapes and all that...
Sarah Palin could have become the Vice President of the United States and thought Africa was a country rather than a continent. It doesn't get more laughable than that. Then again...Bush won presidency twice in a row. Americans do a good job at humiliating themselves without the help of foreign countries. Don't you see? It's fashionable to call Americans stupid because there's ground to the claims. It's the one stereotype that holds true. The majority of Americans have virtually no intelligence of how outside countries operate. Their arrogance is their greatest flaw. They have so much pride in themselves that they won't even conform to the metric system for Christ's sakes. America being the number one superpower in the world doesn't associate them as the most intelligent, it just means they're the wealthiest with more numbers.
- One of the great tragedies of mankind is that morality has been hijacked by religion.
I think you, like most America detractors from other countries, are basing your belief about the general intelligence of the average American by whom we choose to put in the public eye. i.e., on television. Yes, we have had a few dumb politicians, but who hasn't? And who did we vote in? A dumb Sarah Palin or a much more intellegent Joe Biden? You posted 2 examples...Bush and Palin. Wanna bet I can come up with two public examples of Canadian idiocy? America is constantly putting the most idiotic among us on television, basically because we like to laugh at the bottom-feeders on the intellegence ladder that exist in out own country. That doesn't mean that they are in the majority, far from it. It just means that we take those dumb-asses and put them in the limelight to get a chuckle out of them. A by-product of doing this is that people from outside the U.S. get the impressions that that is how everyone in our country is. Well, far from it.
The majority of Americans are well versed in how other countries work, are quite well educated and well read. It's just that the most vocal and noticable of us are the unintellegent ones. Not the majority.
Won't conform to the metric system because of arrogance? It couldn't at all be because we are comfortable with the imperial system and all of us understand it? If anything, our usage of the imperial system is one way of showing our intelligence since it is a more complex system than metric. Everything is in factors of 10 with metric, there are no such round numbers in the imperial system. 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 5,280 feet in a mile. The fact that we can calculate such numbers in our heads as easily as you calculate your factors of 10 shows more complex thinking on our parts than yours. Not to mention, that we do "conform" to metric in terms of we use it in our scietific research as we do understand that it is the accepted system of measurment for everyone else, so when we calculate using the imperial system, we generally translate that to metric for everyone outside the U.S., but the average layman in America prefers to use imperial because that is what we know and that is what we are familiar with. Why is it such a problem for us to use the system we prefer within the confines of our own country? You are just throwing a fit because we won't do things your way.
American's speak better English than Canadian... Or English people themselves, who created the language? Sounds like a load of Rubbish American patriotism, being patriotic to something which they learn't, or was given to them, or they got from another country.
Tomato, tom(may)toe...
You b@stardise the English language to suit yourselves...
English has many dialects and accents... to say Americans speak it properly... Mwah.. don't make me laugh. Next, you will want to talk the Language "American" - and you can, as long as you include the ridiculous pronounciations you use just to make English your own.
American's may say it tom(may)toe, which may seem wrong given it's spelling, but English peoplw say it tom(mot)toe, which is also wrong given it's spelling. If anything, it should be pronounced tom(mat)to.
Not to mention, American's don't put an "F" in the word Lieutenant, nor do we throw unnecessary "R's" at the end of various words that end in "W".
"I sawr the Leftenant drinking tom(mot)toe juice."
I say, quite simply, American's who speak with a Standard-Midwestern dialect tend to have a higher percentage of speaking English words as they are phonetically suppose to be pronounced than most English dialects. Several American dialects, any Southern Dialect comes to mind, butcher the language, several English and Canadian dialects butcher it as well. French Canadians speaking English or Cockney accents come to mind.
Stop feeling the need to defend against the "uncooth and uncultured American bastards" because of a "we invented it so we are automatically right" mentality. Dialects from both places screw it up royally and there are dialects from both places that say things better than most.
It depends on your particular dialect, Krimson. I have heard many an English person pronounce it as I laid it out. Not to mention, pronouncing it with an audible "R" is blatantly wrong...so that doesn't help your cause much.
It's more like "tom'aah'toe" In England, I have a yorkshire dialect, and people from up north and south In England never say it the way you say "tom'mot'ohh' - in fact, may be some african carribean may pronounce it like that - but not ANY English person I know of .. I have never heard it anyway.
Also the pronounciation of Yoghurt - Americans say "yowguurt".. it is pronounced 'yoghurt'.
also, the way of American spelling... color "Colour", Aluminum "Aluminium", specialize "specialise".... bastardize "bastardise".
well, the line between "tom'aah'toe" and "tom'mot'ohh" is extremely faint. Mostly, it depends on how much or little emphasis is placed on the second "T". Frankly, I believe what you hear as tom'ahh'toe is what I am hearing as tom'mot'ohh.
I have never in my entire life heard anyone pronounce yogurt as "yowguurt." Unless I am misreading your phonetic spelling, there. That looks to me like it would rhyme with "cow-gurt".
Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the alternate spellings of those with the exception of Aluminium. As a matter of fact, the American versions are closer to the actual pronounciations.
And if we are just gonna riff on language tropes that tick us off, how about the English tendency to say "Zed" meaning the last letter of the alphabet instead of "Zee". Or "torch" being the word for both an actual torch as well as a flashlight? Or calling an apartment a "flat" when it might be 5 stories up and clearly not flat by any means?
Erm.... How does 'mot' sound like 'ahh'? even if there is no emphasis on the 'T', how does 'mo' sound like 'ahh'??
I live and work in England, and the company I work for is international - in fact, it's based in Texas. Therefore, a lot of my colleagues are American. Take a U off the 'guurt' and it sounds like... Yo!! Gert! So, maybe my phonetics were off a bit - but hopefully you get my gist?
Why, being an English speaking country, would you like to make the spelling of certain words more phoenetic? It's OK in Primary school, or kindergaten - as you call it, but why deviate it from the way of spelling as it is? Granted, it is apparently a very difficult language to learn, so why simplify if for Americans in general? everywhere else that speaks English, except those influenced by North America, are fine spelling it as it - the whole of Europe, Asia, Australasia - they are taught the ENGLISH way of spelling, not AMERICAN... Why is it right because Americans decide it is, as it is more "phoenetic"? You aren't children, for gods sake (hopefully)!
Call your language "American bastardisation of English", if you like, as that is really what it is.
The English tendency to say Zed? That was the way it was even before colonised America decided to say "Zee". I first heard big bird say it on sesame street.
Don't get me wrong, I am not talking down to you at all. In fact, it is probably the best debate I have had on IMDB... so far!
Not 'mo' as in the bartender on Simpsons, 'mot' as in rhymes with dot. If you take the T off it sounds the same as 'mahh'. tom'mot'oh and tom'ahh'toe sound almost exactly the same except for where you are emphasizing the T.
I thought you were saying that Americans say the 'yo' as if it were 'yow'. Yes, we often say the 'gurt' with a slightly more 'e' sound than a 'u' sound. But when spoken, the difference between the two is minimal. Not a long 'e' sound like in "here", but more like in "pert"...actually, multiple vowels can make that exact sound. Pert, hurt, flirt...'e', 'u' and 'i' all can make that sound.
Why is it right because Americans decide it is
Its right because nobody considers it wrong. Go into any dictionary or thesaurus or anything and you will find it spelled both ways. And why spell it so that it is closer to the pronounciation? Well...because it makes more sense! I imagine the first people who decided to change the spellings of those and some other words said to themselves..."Spelling things the way they are pronounced? It's so crazy it just might work!"
And I never heard 'Zed' until "Shaun of the Dead." I was like..."The Zed word? Who is Zed? Was that the name of the guy who invented the word zombie?" I mean...Zed makes me think of a rapist cop who has sex with Ving Rhames while Bruce Willis is upstairs getting a Samuri sword. 'Zee' actually sounds like a letter. It rhymes with several other letters. I mean, seriously, what is the rationale behind putting a 'D' on the end of the letter other than "our way came first"?