MovieChat Forums > Frontière(s) (2008) Discussion > Why in French Horror the Women are the H...

Why in French Horror the Women are the Hero


Just an observation: in most of the recent French Horror movies Women are shown as true fighters, victims of torture, even as the ultimate warriors and survivers. Any special significance in this. I observed the same in J-Horror example Ju-on/Ringu/Audition.

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[deleted]

I guess you are right. If you want to show equality why not beat them equal as men.

This may be the reason the makers of Inside went a step further and tortured a heavily pregnant lady.

Thank you for the remarks.

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I think it's just cause the alternative is french men being the heroes, and let's face it, that is just plain unrealistic... ;-)

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"I think it's just cause the alternative is french men being the heroes, and let's face it, that is just plain unrealistic... ;-) "


I sir LOL'd at that and concur.

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[deleted]

haha chill Frenchie.

Seriously though, that's in almost ALL horror movies, not just French.

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm2339870/

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that's not very heroic behavior

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i'm very sensitive to stereotypes but...lol

Mor

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[deleted]

my personal theory is that all the feminist crap thats being going on hit the movie industry and now they are forced to make it a woman for them to go and see it.

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In this universe, there's only one absolute... everything freezes!

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rofl @ "all the feminist crap thats being going on"

Aww, now doesn't that suck? Nevermind that an empowered female character in horror/thriller films was uncommon until quite recently. Lots of women (including feminists) would still see the standard crapola, but it's definitely nice to get our turn for a change. And don't worry, there are still two-dimensional throwaway female characters aplenty in all sorts of films.

"now they are forced to make it a woman for them to go and see it."

I wouldn't say "forced" so much as entertainment is a billion-dollar industry and when it's business, you market what's most profitable. And you seem to think using a female lead pulls in women; it sure as hell isn't making these films any less appealing to men.

While a heroine gives women someone to identify with, she's also the reason men still flock in droves to the theatres. These female leads are invariably sexy badasses, so on top of the usual reasons men enjoy horror/thrillers, this draws in just as many (if not more) men for the eye candy. French horror tends to be gruesome in its own special way, not focusing as much as American movies on the women as dirty and bloody, yet sexy, but if you want to talk horror/thriller in general, you can't deny the fanservice factor.

"Come on, pelican!"

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the man has spoken how dare you talk back to him, using logic of all things! have you been getting an education behind our backs?!

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Aww, now doesn't that suck? Nevermind that an empowered female character in horror/thriller films was uncommon until quite recently. Lots of women (including feminists) would still see the standard crapola, but it's definitely nice to get our turn for a change. And don't worry, there are still two-dimensional throwaway female characters aplenty in all sorts of films.


Good points, but in the real world, where's the female fire fighter who gave her life to save a man, e.g.? How many times do you see a woman break up a bar fight? A lot of women out there can't even be bothered to do basic things like moving heavy furniture around or slaughtering animals.

That's not to deny the existence of the real thing. There are those exceptional women who have actually performed heroically in very dangerous situations such as Nancy Wake and there are many decorated nurses from WW1 and WW2. Nevertheless, these women are in a significant minority, and a brave nurse, in spite of being undeniably brave and heroic, isn't exactly the same kind of role that would excel in a life and death situation where someone had to fight to survive.

In fairness, I don't think women have been given as many opportunities to excel in these categories as men. If they were, they might surprise us. But at the same time, I know far too many women who wouldn't even be able to get their hands dirty without complaining about it.

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I suggest you actually step foot in to this real world you keep talking about.
You seem to have very little knowledge of what goes on out there.

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Cause there ARE NO french male heros.

Sorry, but I CAN'T deal with french as heroes.

Charles Martel must be rolling in his grave.

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Is that your personal theory? How long did it take you to work that out?

Final Girls have been around since um, TCM. So yeah.

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"It's better not to know so much about what things mean." David Lynch

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femminism has been around since TCM.
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"Common sense is not so common."
- Voltaire

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... except that the 'load of crap' theory is right.

There were some horror films that made women the hero, but now EVERY horror film has to make women the hero. The same is happening to action films. It's the product of feminism and the decline of the male.

If you truly think it's natural you just have to watch the horrid remake of "The Hitcher" to have your belief debunked. It's politics.

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It's the product of feminism and the decline of the male.

Cry me a river...

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Oh noes! Men got to be on top in every conceivable way for thousands of years and now in the last 20 years women have been able to be a hero! Tragedy!

Also, most guys I know would rather see a sexy woman kicking ass.

I've heard it both ways

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@Fennir-5


Not every horror makes women the hero, and frankly it's refreshing to see a woman be the hero sometimes, instead of just being the victim, or mere eye candy/sex object. And I liked the end of the remake of The Hitcher, because even though the original was a good film, it was way too gory and hideous toward the end, and what happens to the female protagonist is too messed up for words. And I'm tired of men whining about seeing women being anything other than naked or being the victim in films. Guys who do this simply have problems and issues with women IRL anyway. If you don't like seeing a women do more than a man in a film, don't watch it them----nobody's making you.

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Good point about sympathizing better with a female victim. (On a side note, you mentioned Alien as well as the argument about "male tormentors." Interestingly, the Alien franchise also has female antagonists. The random aliens throughout the film could be whatever sex, but the boss fight is lots of estrogen. When Ripley and the big queen bee alien b!tch duke it out, there's a very strong mothering instinct and protection/survival of one's offspring playing a major factor.)

And the "needing to become men" part of the asinine theory: Female leads often are portrayed as more or less equal to their male co-stars in terms of capability, toughness, intelligence, etc. To me, "becoming men" implies not only being equals, but surpassing men and becoming superior, just as men traditionally have been perceived.

There's a lot of saving of one's teammates, special skills, critical thinking, etc that doesn't favor any one gender. I mean, nobody's putting men in impractical shoes that make them fall over every few steps when the villain's chasing them. The female character might be more *important*, and she might be the only survivor at the end, but it's not necessarily because the men are incompetent--and often there are plenty of women who have died along the way as well.

"Come on, pelican!"

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Ripley from Alien is an example of a heroine done correctly IMO. They didn't go out of their way to make her seem like she fights better than a man. They didn't put her in high heels. If there was anything that allowed her to survive better, it's because she was more cautious than the rest of her crew to a point where her character seemed rather unlikeable at first -- basically an anti-hero.
There her character is believable.

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Yes, I'm glad you brought Ripley up. Very important character for film, because the role was in fact written for a man, but they cleverly cast a female. This part went against the same typical unrealistic female stereotype : The damsel in distress. Ripley's character is important because it shows a woman can literally play a man's part. And just think if a man were cast, would it be as successful? Everyone roots for HER because it was a change, the tables turned, there was no man left to save the girl from the monster (That was almost unheard of in 1979 for a scifi/ action film). Not to mention the character was never helpless and she was strong (an uncommon facet among female characters), Alien was groundbreaking.

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Hero? I've only seen one French horror film with a female 'hero,' and that's Eyes Without A Face. Surviving brutal murder isn't exactly heroic, it's really a pretty basic instinct. That said, it's just to maximize the ability to empathize with the characters, and females are just considered generally more sympathetic in plight. Why do you think the whole "women and children first" thing ever came out of our dense society?

For God so loved the world, that he gave no evidence of his existence.

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How would one "survive a brutal murder"? That must be quite a trick.

Is all that we see or seem, but a dream within a dream?

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A larger percentage of horror fans are actually female believe it or not. Although I think most of them are a bit shy to admit it hence why imdb message boards are often filled up by male fans. Filmmakers portray women as the heroines so their target audience can relate, be happy and come back for more!

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It's called the "Final Girl." The French New Wave is simply taking it to a higher level. i.e. "Inside," "High Tension," "Frontier(s)"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_girl

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@ the OP:

The same goes for American movies and British movies too. It's complete bull so it is. There's no way a woman would come out in front in every situation horror movies gives us. It's sexist in the extreme!. Men are just cannon fodder for the killer(s) in the tales on screen. It's getting kind of too predictable so it is!.

"It's some kind of f!cking distraction from those sh!tnicks!."

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to the OP: the 'scream queen' principle has been used since the beginning of the slasher genre, regardless the country of origin.

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@ the OP as well:

Women have been always the people who were the one who needed to get rescued and the guys saved the day. That's how it used to be in the classic cinema.

But I guess now they want to change things around and make something different, which is understandable.

Now, what pisses me off is when women get all riled up and thinking they're better than men with their feminist propaganda sheit.

Those kinda people just make me want the filmmakers to go back to their original and put the women in their place.....

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Because of Mother Courage and Joan of Arc.

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Some feminist women who think they are better than men do think so because men say things like "put the women in their place". The only reason women would get riled up is because females have been repressed for sooooo long. I think women have that right.

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[deleted]

"Women are shown as true fighters, victims of torture, even as the ultimate warriors and survivers. - - I observed the same in - - Audition."

Audition? I beg the differ

Asami was never the victim, survivor nor a true fighter. A warrior, maybe in Aoyamas fantasy. But in the movies reality Asami was just an ordinary girl.

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Carol J. Clover in her book Men, Women and Chainsaws has a really good insight into the 'Final Girl' aspects of films, she makes certain not to call them heroes because there are men who die, but do so heroically so everyone's a hero. She suggests that it is for both male and female identity during the film, the man can connect with the killer and then when she fights back the viewer can switch sides. there's a lot of Freud and Mulvey and Creed(Barbara, not the band) and the like referenced, but some of it actually stands to reason.

And yes, the majority or horror fans are female, hello, we have to deal with a lot of horrific *beep* pregnancy!! Inside, Demon Seed, Rosemary's Baby, there's a lot of unpleasantness and down right horrific and terrifying parts to women, of course they have to find a way to better it.

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Grace, The Omen, etc...

Anyway, as a man I'm here to say boo frickin' hoo to all the little boys posting here complaining about the "decline of the male." Given that most of REAL LIFE'S horrors (rape, incest, domestic violence, murder, war, weapons of mass destruction, Riverdance...) are perpetrated by men, I don't see any problem with giving women a little vengeance in a theatrical fantasy land. Nevermind for a moment that all feminism as a philosophy really says is that women are people, too, and that if you have to deal with 35 or 40 years or so of female dominated cinema, I'd say that's a small price to pay for the misogyny OF TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF HUMAN EXISTENCE, which incidentally still exists even in the first world where there are laws in place that supposedly guard against it (anti-workplace discrimination legislation, for instance).

Oh, and did any of the people complaining actually watch *this particular film*? Funny they should accuse it's makers of anti-male sexism in light of the fact that even when Yasmine was taking out bad guys, she was whimpering and shuddering (something you've never seen a male hero do) the whole time, AND the final two "bad guys" in this film were actually WOMEN! Same sort of scenario in the aforementioned High Tension.

Not for nothing, but I think it's also worth mentioning that the 'Final Girl' in other French horror films is a lot of the time luck of the draw. Take for instance La Horde. The only reason the Aurore character survives is because a man heroically sacrifices himself.

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You sir, are a credit to your gender!

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Meh I do what I can. :-)

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It may have a reason for the new French horrors, but it's also something in many horror films. There is the theme in most slasher film throughout horror film history of the past 40 or so years called the "final girl" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_girl.

only YOU can prevent PG-13 slasher films

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The Final Girl has been a staple of slasher/horror movies for so long that it has become standard. These films generally follow a fairly rigid formula, and while recent French films have tried to bring something new to the genre, the female survivor has remained.

There's probably a few good reasons for this. For one, these films are generally aimed at men and men like to look at women. Moreso, men are instilled with the notion of chivalry (whether we act upon it or not!), and it just wouldn't be kosher to see a male character survive when his girlfriend has been killed. Another reason, as one another poster pointed out, is that generally in real life serial killers are men and their victims are women. It makes sense for a woman to triumph over a male tormentor.

There is also some sense in Carol Clover's idea that we (men) identify with the killer(s) initially. That way we can vicariously side with the predator, before switching our allegiance to the feisty lady who has more than 'earned' her survival. In many cases in early slashers, it was simply a case of nearly all the characters being female. In the case of Frontier(s) however, it's simply that women are kept for breeding (nice) and there is only one woman in the group. She is kept alive while the others are slaughtered.

One other thing to consider is that often the last surviving character is merely that - a survivor, and not a hero in any sense of the word. Often there is just as much luck involved as determination, and they are rarely able to rescue anybody as we might expect a hero to do.








Le temps détruit tout

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"I guess you are right. If you want to show equality why not beat them equal as men. "

Really? I mean....Really? You realize that there's far more serious violence towards women in film than there are men right? Why do you wish to see them get beat as badly as men do? I'm guessing you've never seen A Serbian Film, Martyrs, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo? If so, you'd realize that women characters are subjected to a lot worse than male characters in films.

Life would be much more enjoyable if I had just one thing - Season 8 of the Shield & 5 of the Unit.

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General answer to OPs question, i've only caught switchblade romance & frontiers for french horror, both women 'victims'also have short cropped hair... Joan of Arc anyone??

How the hell did I get here?

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Are you sure about that? From what I've seen over the years I'd say the opposite is true. In the horror movies I've seen ranging from slashers to science fiction to this "torture porn" garbage, I've observed that the male characters tend to suffer far more horrible fates as opposed to the females.

One example I will give is Carver. When the group finds the reels in that guy's house and watches one you see a woman die very quickly with a strike to the head with a saw. The man, however, gets a hook in his face then he is dragged screaming to the killer who then proceeds to saw his face while we hear his anguished screams.

Of that group, the 3 males suffer horrible deaths while the 2 females have relatively painless deaths.

Even in so-called comedies (both movies and TV) I've seen many acts of violence committed against men (usually by women). Face slaps, crotch kicks etc. delivered from women to men are funny?

Anyways, my apologies for deviating from the original topic. Just had to add my 3 cents about movie violence.

Regarding the OP, the "final girl" is a tired and predictable formula that has been around for decades and gets older and staler with each new movie. Time to shake things up. The "nerdy guy" needs to be the survivor once and a while.

Why? Because I am one so I could identify.

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The Hills Have Eyes ;)

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