MovieChat Forums > Se, jie (2007) Discussion > Seriously confusing about locations

Seriously confusing about locations

posted 16 years ago by Strausszek
4 replies | jump to latest

The film is very good, but it seriously leaves you in the hay about where the first half takes place. At the outset there's a title card "Shanghai 1942 - site of the Chinese collaborative government" and we soon realize that Yee is working with the Japanese. But most of the first half is set somewhere in southern China - Canton, is it? We are told nothing precise about where, only from time to time in the talk of the ladies it's obliquely hinted that this is not Shanghai at all, because they speak of Shanghai as a place far off and at one point there's this dialogue line "Mrs Mai knows a good restaurant in Kowloon" implying that Kowloon (part of Hong Kong) is not far away. On the other hand,. the theatre troupe leader says we have *had to leave* Hong Kong.
Now, I realized while watching that most of the early part was actually set 'before* 1942 (though that should have been made clear). But how long before? When she meets her contact man again in Shnghai, it's made obvious that some years have passed, three or four years. But that brings us back before the outbreak of WW2, back to around 1938 and then, for that reason too, the opening part couldn't be Hong Kong, because Kong was not invaded by the Japanese until December 1941, before then it was British of course (and you don't see anyone English in the entire film). Canton, on the other hand, was occupied by the Japanese already before 1939, so perhaps that's the location. But Ang Lee really should have made this a bit clearer.

"Gentlemen, duelling is forbidden, by the order of Cardinal Richelieu"
"Richelieu's men are notorious for their complete lack of taste."

[–] dagrattle 16 years ago

I would keep in mind a couple of things:

- that Ang Lee may well have been filming this for a Chinese, rather than a Western, audience (I think I read an interview to that effect, although it's been a good couple of years now). A Chinese audience - or anyone who's spent time studying how WWII played out in China / Asia - is probably going to be pretty familiar with local events tied to the war. As you mention, different locations were occupied by the Japanese at different times, and there was quite a bit of moving around in the film; but if you had the background, this wouldn't be that big a surprise.

- a couple of people on this board mentioned some time ago that the English translation leaves out a lot of detail. When the Tai Tais are having lunch, apparently there are a few different accents at the table, which gives background information about class and social standing, which impacts how they're interacting. Likewise, there's more dialog behind who's fighting whom in the beginning (Communists vs Kuomintang vs Japanese). So the information may be in the film, just not in the subtitles.

I also remember something in the film indicated when the first part of the movie took place, but I'd have to watch again to say exactly what.

[–] Strausszek 16 years ago

Thanks.

Yes, I realize this is primarily a Chinese film (just like Katyn is a Polish film - in Katyn there's a bit of background knowledge required too, the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact for example, but most European audiences, grown-up ones at least, would know, and so would many Americans. Likewise, in Lust, Caution the infighting hinted or spelled out within the dialogue (in the original Chinese) may help to explain smoothly who's with who and what their motivations are. The dialects would help add more dimensions to what people are saying, too (not knowing Chinese that's a locked book to me, but I know that different dialects of Chinese are almost like different spoken languages).

I still think they could have introduced, in versions screened, rented or sold outside East Asia, some kind of quick title card or some brief scene designed to obliquely tell non-Chinese viewers where the first half happens, and that it's in the late thirties. It might have been easily and unmobtrusively done. Directors today like to play around with time structure, I have no problem with that but here it became a bit confusing because th story ties in closely to a historical reality many of us only know very vaguely.

The university where Wang meets the theatre troupe is in the same city as where they start "Operation Seduction" Mk 1 isn't it? It's not Hongkong, the director guy says at one point in the early scene "Now that we're evacuees from Hongkong University...." or the like, so I presume it's Canton (which was Japanese occupied already). Well, I really nedd to see the Russian/French Khrustallioff, Get My Car! now - it's set during the final months of Stalin when he was startingan infamous purghe of "jewish academics and spies" and is said to be etxraordinarily tricky and sketchy in its time design.

"Richelieu's men are notorious for their complete lack of taste."

[–] junktom 16 years ago

On the contrary, the director made the location clear by:

1) Introducing the first scene took place in Shanghai, so as to connect to the end scene.

2) When the student Kuang invited the girls to his play, he mentioned something like: "when our people are at war, people in Hong Kong are enjoying their everyday life...". They were attending the university of Hong Kong. After Wong was introduced into Yi's mahjong table, the three wives kept mention the trouble of finding a decent cook in Hong Kong, they also asked Wong for futher reference as tailor and resturants in Hong Kong.

3) After their assisination failed, the scene shifted back to Shanghai. This was mentioned later by the reappearance of Kuang's appearance shortly after.

I think the director has made all the necessary indications - just enough for audience to aware of the different locations, yet not overly done so audience may feel being treated as stupid, such as proven in "Quantum of Solace".

[–] pegasus8228 16 years ago

it is a flash back.

in the beginning they played mahjong in shanghai in (i think) 1942.

then flash back to a couple years ago in HK. (when Wang was a student)

so there are only 2 locations in this movies, a couple years ago in HK where a small student group tried to do something, then "present time" in shanghai where they joined the resistance force formally.