MovieChat Forums > Joshua (2007) Discussion > his parents actually weren't that bad...

his parents actually weren't that bad...

posted 15 years ago by newgirl12
22 replies | jump to latest

.....compared to the other parents in their social circle, joshua's parents weren't that bad. the movie opens with his dad telling another verbally abusive parent to quiet down. the mom has no interest in having a stranger watch after her newborn. the mom very pointedly made a judgemental quip at the school recital when the other parents were complaining. the dad goes to the kid's 'meet the teacher' when most of the other parents send nannies. the dad sits in the boy's bedroom in the dark reassuring him. the parents reassure him about his infancy by protecting him from the truth.

that's why this movie bothers me so much. the mother is suffering from the horrifying effects of post-partum depression, which complicates all of her relationships. it's almost as if joshua is exploiting his parent's situation and taking advantage of their vulnerability. which, of course, is a scheme far beyond his age capability.

which leaves the question: was he always evil, born that way? or, was he made that way? if it's #1, then this movie is one of the creepiest child-demon movies ever. if it's #2, then the movie is one of the most nihilistic parental-fears movies i've ever watched.

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] PazuzuPanning 15 years ago

I think Joshua only began showing his "other side" when his baby sister was born. He was always secluded, shy, and exceptionally smart, but he was never truly a full-blown sociopath until his sister was born. I don't know, he might have had it within him, but he never showed it.

The Journal of Saint Anna; coming soon to a bookstore near you.

[–] Schaphra 15 years ago

His parents did molested him. He is on age where he couldn't understand his mothers after birth depression, and it is only thing he saw on video tape - she screams towards him, crazed for his crying as a child.

From the beginning of the movie we could see that whole family - except uncle - treats him as a piece of furniture. Nobody actually hugs him. Nobody says anything nice for his piano playing. When he starts acting strange with toys and "mummification" with teddy bear.

Sure, Joshua acts like sociopath. But role of his parents in his behavior is enormous.

Mother has very serious mental state, everybody mention this through movie, father is acting estranged also. It is not that they just don't understand him - they refuse to do so.

Very interesting movie. Joshua is supposed to be a monster, and definitely he has his revenge... but, is he a really bad guy?

[–] Zando777 12 years ago

Yelling is not molesting.

I hope this helps.

[–] beisner68 15 years ago

My jaw hit the floor when we found out that they let him go out alone in the city at age 9. I don't care if he's not like other 9 year olds, that is crazy. After that I can't agree with you.

[–] kathykato 15 years ago

I felt very sorry for his father. His father did try to understand Joshua and his interests and spend time with him--I think he was a very patient husband/father given what he had to deal with regarding his wife's mental health issues and the constantly crying baby. I also think Joshua's grandmother was basically very caring towards Joshua and tried to connect with him--there was no reason for him to have pushed her down the stairs. In short, all of the adults in this story tired their best to care for Joshua and the baby, and none of them deserved what Joshua did to them.

[–] hardwood53 13 years ago

"none of them deserved what Joshua did to them." This is your estimation of the situation. Joshua thought they did. He let his feelings rule him and acted accordingly.
We correct our children as we become aware of their behavior. The behavior started before we became aware of it. So we are too late, having missed the mood, attitude, and perhaps the trigger for the ill behavior.
We comfort them when it becomes obvious they need it. By the time they show outward signs the child has most likely suffered for a while. We ask them what is wrong, expecting the real reason. This is the child's first time around in life and so the child is lacking the self knowledge to give a good reason. Many make it to old age without ever truly knowing themselves.
Life is unfair. Do we deserve what happens along the way? Any answer except yes is unrealistic and encourages unhealthy attitudes. We are subject to all life offers both good and bad. To dwell on feelings about it takes away from the here and now nature of life.
We could have a better, safer World but too many people let their immature, self-centered feelings about things turn it into one of retribution. AKA Crime and Punishment.
Our society likes to punish people even those who hurt no one. We make all kinds of excuses for it but that is just to conceal the animalistic blood lust of a race of beings that has never properly matured.

[–] Zando777 12 years ago

What the hell are you talking about?

Joshua was a monster. His parents didn't deserve what happened to them. End of story.

Geesh.

[–] ElectricWarlock 12 years ago

He wasn't a monster. If wanting to know someone loved you and cared whether you were alive or not makes someone a monster, then a monster is what we all are.

Come, fly the teeth of the wind. Share my wings.

[–] fiatlux-1 12 years ago

That was a game he was playing. He may in his own twisted way wanted to be 'loved', but he wanted to be Number 1...and the ONLY one. Nothing could convince me that he didn't have every intention of tossing his baby sister down those stairs. He tortured the baby for weeks. He killed the dog terribly, and his hamster too. For God's sake, he tossed his grandma down moments later to keep her from telling the truth about him! He killed his mother!
That sure sounds like a monster!
He was a very ill little boy, a sociopath/psychopath.

The film hints at the fact that he was unable to form a conscience because he was a colicky baby and bellowed so much, so his mom was unable to hold him & form a bond with him.
But he still had 100% free will, he made his own evil choices.

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

[–] ElectricWarlock 12 years ago

If he did hate his sister and wanted to kill her, it was his parents' fault. If they showed equal love and affection to both children, perhaps Joshua wouldn't have hated his sister enough to want to kill her in the first place. It's obvious the parents had a preference to the baby, and Joshua noticed that so he became jealous. I think he must've reasoned that if his baby sister were gone, then maybe his parents would show him the love he wanted and needed for a change. It never showed him kill the dog or the hamster. As for the grandma, it never showed him push her either. With the exception of the hamsters who were obviously cut open (in Joshua's mind I imagine he was embalming them like the Ancient Egyptians did), those other events could've simply been coincidental accidents. Dogs die of illness and people slip and fall down stairs all the time.

I've read many of your posts on several different IMDb boards and think you're one of the best posters here. I agree with you 90% of the time, but this is one instant where I just can't.

Come, fly the teeth of the wind. Share my wings.

[–] fiatlux-1 12 years ago

I've noticed your posts too (and your cool signature), and I often agree with you too.
But not in this instance. I will say I agree with you that Joshua's parents neglected him. And they CERTAINLY did not seem to notice he had mental issues, even before the baby (this was mentioned in the film too). They could have shown more affection for him, and that mom never ever should have had ANY kids never mind another baby after Joshua. She was mentally unstable, she wanted a trophy to show off. She didn't want to deal with problems, as every kid has.

I believe parents' behavior could make a child troubled, depressed, even full of anger. But I won't say that their behavior and/or neglect caused Joshua to do the evil things he did. HE is responsible for his own actions, he did bad things because he liked it, because he wanted to.

"I'd say this cloud is Cumulo Nimbus."
"Didn't he discover America?"
"Penfold, shush."

[–] ElectricWarlock 12 years ago

I believe that Joshua inherited whatever mental illness his mother had by genetics. Yes, he did want to do these things but his parents made him want to in my opinion.

Come, fly the teeth of the wind. Share my wings.

[–] Doctor_Nico 10 years ago

He was a monster ! Ok his parents weren't perfect with him, but they weren't bad either. And he killed his grand mother after he failed killing his baby sister ! How were they bad towards him ?

[–] denise1234 13 years ago

*SPOILERS*

Yeah.

I don’t understand some of the animosity on some threads toward the parents.

Also, FYI: The writer of the story / filmmaker has stated that the character of Joshua truly IS evil, and that he (filmmaker) toyed around with the nature/nurture debate somewhat in the story, but that it is all about ‘nature’ with Joshua – he is just bad, and that is what makes it creepier because no amount of 'nurture' is going to change that.

BTW: I got to meet Jacob Kogan (‘Joshua’) some years ago in Las Vegas (right after he was in the Star Trek movie). He was quite charming and very ‘smiley’ – he put off quite a different vibe than how ‘Joshua’ was.

"I can't stand a naked light bulb, any more than..a rude remark or a vulgar action" Blanche DuBois

[–] nofret-1 11 years ago

**Also, FYI: The writer of the story / filmmaker has stated that the character of Joshua truly IS evil, and that he (filmmaker) toyed around with the nature/nurture debate somewhat in the story, but that it is all about ‘nature’ with Joshua – he is just bad, and that is what makes it creepier because no amount of 'nurture' is going to change that.**

That answers all my questions. It means that all talk about psychology, parental upbringing, family related issues and surroundings are wasted on this film. It explains why I can't find a cause of Joshua's disorder because there isn't one. He's just struck by Satan or Set or a mutant gene or something.

PS. I think that the behaviour of the parents can't explain what Joshua did too. I also think it's true that things turned bad after his sister was born. I don't think that his parents loved her more: he was already nine when she arrived, and I guess they had tried and waited a long time to have second child, so they were just overwhelmed. Before Lily Joshua had all attention for himself, he could play the piano, his father had time for him playing soccer even though he didn't like it, and he was probably spoiled (he had a lot of expensive toys).

He was indeed trying to get attention. He vomited when the family was singing 'twinkle little star', after he himself was sent away from the piano. I think that song was the same tune as the twisted song he played at the schoolrecital, but that was the setting by Mozart to the song 'Ah, vous dirais je maman', so I assume that was directed straight to his mother.

I think the development in the movie is clear, but his lack of empathy, his lack of understanding of feeling and aspecially love, his cruelty and obsession with death cannot completely be caused by his parents, because they did their best to be good, even although they made mistakes.

[–] ElectricWarlock 13 years ago

His father wasn't that bad at first, but then when the going got tough, he didn't hesitate to abandon his son and stop loving him. I think that a good parent would stick by their child until the end even if they were mentally ill and wouldn't turn on them. And the mother was horrible from the start, only caring about her daughter and not giving her son the time of day. And I don't think he was evil at all. He was just misunderstood. Yes, he was different from a lot of other children his age which is why he didn't have many friends and it seemed like his parents didn't know how to handle him since he wasn't some cookie-cutter kid. He just wanted to feel as if he belonged somewhere and like someone loved him and he didn't get that from anyone except his uncle which is why he felt so close to him. I don't care what the filmmaker intended, that's my interpretation of the film.

Come, fly the teeth of the wind. Share my wings.

[–] Falconeer 12 years ago

Please..the mother was a whiny, spoiled bitch. she had everything and all she did was cry and feel sorry for herself. Her own baby couldn't stand to be held by her. I wanted to slap that ungrateful monster. Most people would kill to have her life..

"IMdB; where 14 year olds can act like jaded 40 year old critics...'

[–] cajunbluesbaby 8 years ago

It's obvious you don't understand mental illness. It's a genetic disease of the brain. It's literally a chemical imbalance, not enough serotonin in the brain that keeps you stable. Plus the little boy was messing with her meds so she was just getting worse and worse. Postpartum depression, which my mother suffered from & had to be hospitalized for 6 months after my sisters were born, if untreated can lead to postpartum psychosis.

[–] shante-baker 12 years ago

Seems like he had some underlying issues with his parents. The movie made it obvious that he felt they didn't truly love him, or they only did as an obligation. The birth of his sister only amplified that since they made it blatantly clear that they loved her more (telling him to stop playing piano when it wasn't even bothering the baby). Joshua picked up on that and made pretty obvious attempts at getting attention - vomiting in the middle of the social, passing out during the recital, suddenly changing religious views - but when that didn't work, he decided he'd rather not have his parents at all.

As horrible as it sounds, if his father admitted that he didn't love his son as anything more than his heir, Joshua wouldn't have resorted to such measures.