I don't have a problem with Mad Men, I think it's one of the best work of fiction in any medium. But there is something that bothers me about Mad Men fans that I really don't like. From their idolizing of Don Draper, to their double standards of certain characters, to their pretension sense of elitism. Mad Men is a great show but that doesn't necessarily mean their audience is great.
shareDuly noted. Thanks.
shareDo you think that's a phenomenon unique to Mad Men? Fans of every show (or book, comic, or movie franchise) do that. It's part of what fandom is.
*Formerly Nothin_but_the_Rain*
@Moss_Garden No, of course it's not unique to Mad Men. The problem with Mad Men fans could said for fan culture in general. But I don't see anyone calling out Mad Men fans like they do for other fandoms.
shareThat's actually already been tried here - some months back. Turned out in the end that the person in question had her own agenda in mind, even as she bitched and moaned about fan bases worshipping the village dog turd Don Draper.
share@doug65oh Well, I can't speak for the person in question but I don't have an agenda. I'm merely making an observation.
shareWell, let’s replace agenda with “secret dream scenario” and go from there. The argument put forth ran something along the lines of “Don Draper is the largest, most foul smelling pile of fecal matter there is, and why he has so many fans/admirers makes absolutely no sense.”
This went on for quite some time, and phrases like fan base were thrown about pretty regularly. What finally drove the torpedo into the side of her Lusitania, one day she made some comment about how wonderful a Don/Rachel pairing would have been.
It was one of those times when it was very difficult not to sit back and say, “Okay, wait just a minute. You’ve already established your own view that Don Draper is a dirty skunk, and further strongly implied at least that fans of Don Draper are little more than starry-eyed mental deficients. Yet, at the same time, even as you’ve sat here railing against the “fan base” you believe that Don and Rachel were or would have been the ideal pair. How exactly does that fit?”
See what I mean? As with so many things, it's not the madness what matters as much as it is the method. Yours (from what I can see at this point at least) is far better than hers.
Oooh, man, I remember who you're talking about. Yeah, she did have a pretty intense love of the Rachel Menken character (in fact I believe she changed her handle to reflect it), which made her desire for Rachel and Don to get together even weirder.
Retro, looking back at my previous reply I think I came off as unnecessarily snappish. Sorry about that! I meant to say that the show went on for a long time, and fans on this board talked about every little detail so exhaustively, that there's almost no theory, opinion, analysis, or criticism that didn't end up on a thread here at some point. Fans get a little weird about shows they (we) love. What makes Mad Men different, if perhaps not unique, is that it was a very popular but niche show in an era of wildly popular shows about much more fantastical content. Up against Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, etc, the only thing to obsess over on Mad Men besides the style of it was the characters' each and every emotion and interaction. So it makes sense that, especially in retrospect, the obsessiveness would come off as a bit iffy.
*Formerly Nothin_but_the_Rain*
Moss, I knew somebody besides me would remember. She did take the last train to Weirdsville with that change in userid for sure.
That's the interesting thing though about the Don Draper character. Superschmuck that he was in many ways, I found it difficult not to admire his creativity when it came to work product and thinking on the fly. That's about the only admirable trait he really has apart from occasional hints that there was some sort of morality or at least propriety in there somewhere. The best illustration of that I think came when Roger was on the floor moaning "Mirabelle, Mirabelle!" and Don slapped his face, saying "Your wife's name is Mona!"
There's a line somewhere in Hamlet I think it is what says, "There's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Sometimes I wonder if that doesn't sum up the entire series.
@Moss_Garden I don't think Mad Men was as underrated as some fans make it out to be. People forget that for quite awhile Mad Men overshadowed other AMC shows like Breaking Bad and the Walking Dead. It was until it's later seasons of Mad Men when those shows began to get recognition.
share@doug650h Okay, now I understand. The person in question was vilified Don's character when really they were just upset that their shipping didn't happen. I'm of the opinion that even if Don choose Rachel over Megan it still wouldn't have last. There were hints that Rachel wasn't what Don was looking for in a woman. Rachel would have not been okay with Don hiding his secret identity for the rest of his life. When Rachel tries to comfort Don by telling him "we'll figure out what to do", Don had no interest in "figuring out what to do". He lived with the lie for so long that he knew no other way to live, he was okay doing what was easy then want was hard.
shareOh I get that. The thing is, the "Don/Rachel perfection" idea only slipped out after the wheels had pretty much fallen off the "Don's a total schmuck" tricycle she'd been riding for months.
shareMad Men fans are certainly very dedicated. I can appreciate that people have a huge amount of love and devotion to something they enjoy but on the other hand it can go overboard. For instance, it is tough to have any sort of rational discussion on this board if you post anything other than glowing remarks about the show. It seems that most people who dislike the show or don't even necessarily dislike it but have legitimate criticisms are met with little more than personal attacks--the most widely used and classic one being "you're just too stupid to get it."
To me it is unfortunate that this is the case. I rarely come on this board for that very reason. I can ask questions but if I have any opinion other than "this is amazing, I wouldn't change a thing" then it gets ugly almost immediately. There are certainly other movies and shows where this happens as well--I would never say that it is limited to this show but do I feel that Mad Men is one of the worst ones, along with Supernatural.
"Your petty vengeance fetish will have to do withOUT Mr. Groin!"
At times (or in former times I should say) it was very hard to read some of the posts and not be reminded of that saying about the fine line between genius and insanity.
shareDon Draper is a scumbag I will watch a few episodes get fed up with his weakness and lack of discipline and integrity and drop off. During summer or during a lull in other shows I'll pick it up a bit before he just drives me nuts.
One thing I think that personally bothers me is he looks just like my father and I honestly sometimes get mad at him as if it were my dad- that is how much they look a like. While my dad wasn't a exec he was a fighter pilot in USAF and there are a ton of similarities to the officer's wives club and the women on this show and the cocky men.
Luckily they were at least man enough to never be so overtly scummy but I am sure many were.
Anyhow, like you I like the show where I differ is I for some reason really identify with it I guess because I was born in late 60s and kind of experienced those fashions, drinking etc.
Peggy I don't get at al not even remotely attractive to me. It is mean to say but she reminds me of gonzo on the muppets. Joan not my style either.
In fact the only gals I found attractive where Trudy and Sterling's daughter in season 6. In short I am in the minority :)
@TriggerPullerUSMC Wait, you're the minority when it comes thinking that Trudy is hot?
Yeah I don't think there's any basis for saying that. Allison Brie is a very pretty woman. I've never heard anyone say she wasn't attractive.
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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.
"Pretentious" sense of elitism. (Irony intended)
shareSo what?
shareI think you are confusing that nobody "idolizes" Don Draper but we know a great TV Character when we see one, and Don Draper is one the most, or THE most, well developed TV characters of all-time.
shareWhile there were some fans who idolised Don -- women who found him sexy and men who wanted to emulate him -- most are as you say: he was an extraordinarily great, well-developed, nuanced character. That's why it was so much fun to watch him, if at times frustrating when he kept repeating his same mistakes over and over.
shareWhut ? I think I'm too dumb to understand whut you are saying here.
share