MovieChat Forums > The Tudors (2007) Discussion > Did anyone TRULY love Henry?

Did anyone TRULY love Henry?

posted 11 years ago by buddhababy930
14 replies | jump to latest

'The Tudors' (to my recollection anyway) is the first program I've ever seen where the villain was the main protagonist, in this case King Henry VIII. Can't say for sure if his on-screen portrayal is historically accurate (it's not like there's anyone from that time who is still around to verify) but I think Jonathan Rhys Meyers did a very convincing job at portraying a very manipulative, narcissistic, indecisive, hypersexual, mentally, emotionally (and occasionally physically) abusive, clearly mentally unstable monarch.

I've never heard of a king that had such tumultuous relationships with pretty much everyone around him. His wives, his daughters, relatives by blood or by marriage, his mistresses, his personal councilmen, his "friends", religious leaders, foreign monarchs. . . .it seems to me like his relationship status with everyone around him was solely dependent on what they could do for him. It was frustrating sometimes to watch people obviously kissing his ass simply because they did not want to get on his bad side, including his wives. I think the only one of his wives who ever truly stood up for herself in that matter was Anne Boleyn.

He would literally shower someone with love, praise, blessings, gifts, his promises of friendship and cooperation, well wishes, etc. . . .and then the minute something went wrong that resulted in him not getting his way, he was quick to take everything back. Everything from striping his daughters from their titles as princesses and calling them illegitimate bastards, to breaking treaties to divorcing and/or killing his wives, to beheading personal advisors. . .everyone around him was just a pawn that could be easily eliminated.

I think out of the dozen or so childish temper tantrums he had (and his actions following said tantrums), maybe only 2 or 3 of them were actually justifiable. For example, him beheading his 5th wife. Yes, she was guilty of adultery but in all honesty she was really just a stupid and immature (and slightly corrupted) child. He could've just divorced her, taken away her title as queen, and banished her from court and refuse to give her any housing or money, but beheading her was a bit much.

It makes me wonder if anyone actually truly loved Henry, or if they only said so out of fear or necessity, or even vice versa. I don't think he truly respected any of his wives (except maybe his last wife, Catherine Parr). He made it clear that to him, women were just tools for pleasure, for bearing children and stroking his fragile, male ego. I can just imagine his entire court constantly walking on eggshells around him. Henry was just always like a ticking time-bomb, constantly going off and then resetting himself only no one could predict exactly when, where and how it would happen.

[–] Salmonit 11 years ago

I would say all 3 of his children, even when they grew up, truly loved him their whole lives. I know there are arguements that the 2 girls may not have, but their actions as adults, show they loved him.

[–] buddhababy930 11 years ago

Possibly (although personally I think his daughters had more than enough reasons not to; Henry denied Mary permission to stay in contact with her mother and could not even see Catherine of Aragon in her final days, and he had Elizabeth's mother beheaded).

If they did love Henry, I'd say that it was a form of Stockholm Syndrome at best. I noticed that no matter what horrible and despicable things he did, they always took his side (as most of his court did).

If I were in their position, I'd say to myself, "If I voice my true thoughts and feelings about my father, what's to say that he won't get rid of me the same way he's done others who have displeased him in the past? If I just hold it all in and continue to say/do whatever he wants and take his side, that's better than nothing at all."

I don't doubt that Henry would occasionally show love and affection to his daughters, but it definitely wasn't unconditional; no matter if his daughters truly loved their father during their lifetime HIS love towards THEM always seemed conditional to whatever other circumstances he had going on in his life at the time.

If Jane Seymour hadn't have intervened on Mary and Elizabeth's behalf and reconciled them with their father, would Henry had even bothered to welcome his daughters back to court on his own?

[–] Surrendering_To_The_Void 11 years ago

I think Catherine of Aragon did. She seems to have shared a certain passionate chastity with her mother and her sister. I also think Anne Boleyn did. At that point in his life, Henry would be very easy to love - romantic, passionate yet steadfast, a fit and handsome man, powerful, devoted, erudite, artistic. He wasn't yet the monster that became the famous image we have of him now.

I'll mourn him to my very marrow. The pity is he will never know how much I will grieve.

[–] mollys-lips 11 years ago

Henry in his younger years was not only loved but beloved. Whether you believe it was the power that corrupted him or the head injury there seems to be no doubt that he was much changed as he grew older. Was young King Henry capable of cruelty and narcissism? Absolutely but that was practically a prerequisite for being a monarch at the time.
I would like to address one other thing: the series' portrayal of Henry of hyper sexed. This is actually not true. By all accounts Henry was downright chaste compared to his peers. It was not at all uncommon for a king to have several mistresses, both official and unofficial but there are only two or three known mistresses (and yes, had he been a lothario we would almost certainly know about it). He was married to Catherine for 20 years, waited four years or so to bed Anne Boleyn and there is quite a bit of evidence to suggest that he was practically impotent by the time he married Anne of Cleaves. So while watching Jonathan Reese Myer bed a whole stable of beauties is fun to watch and great for ratings it isn't historically accurate.

[–] seozattack 11 years ago

On this issue, however, I think only COA loved him truly. She was with him the most and knew him from a young age. She loved him despite all he did to her, even when he put her aside to marry Anne Boleyn. Anne Boleyn was obviously in love with Henry Percy. Anne was probably disgusted that she couldn't marry him. I don't think Anne loved him truly. He treated her badly after Elizabeth was born, and Anne had her last miscarriage possibly due to stress. Jane probably loved him, especially after she gave birth to Edward. I think Anne of Cleves loved Henry as a brother/friend, but not romantically. It's pretty obvious Kathryn Howard was never in love with Henry. She was a teenager, she wanted to have a teenage romance. Henry was also fat and old at the time, and certainly wasn't attractive to anybody. IMO, Katherine Parr was just a companion, not a wife.

[–] njgill 11 years ago

Henry was also fat and old at the time, and certainly wasn't attractive to anybody.

Ypu'd be amazed what kind of beautification effect absolute power can have on a person.

[–] BlairAbbey 11 years ago

I think it was pretty obvious that both Catherine of Aragon and Anne loved Henry.

[–] Anndee123 11 years ago

I think out of the dozen or so childish temper tantrums he had (and his actions following said tantrums), maybe only 2 or 3 of them were actually justifiable. For example, him beheading his 5th wife. Yes, she was guilty of adultery but in all honesty she was really just a stupid and immature (and slightly corrupted) child. He could've just divorced her, taken away her title as queen, and banished her from court and refuse to give her any housing or money, but beheading her was a bit much.

Regardless of whether her beheading was right or wrong, in Katherine Howard's case, Henry didn't have much of a choice as adultery against the king is treason and punishment was death.

1st, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards.
-Mark Twain

[–] Nothin_But_the_Rain 11 years ago

I think it likely that Catherine of Aragon loved Henry for most of their marriage, and probably for a long time after he divorced her -- though at that point I'd say her love was more a force of will than genuine affection.

Anne Boleyn was so calculating and inscrutable I'd hesitate to even make a calculated guess at her feelings, but it's hard to imagine anyone in her position not falling in love at least a little with the man who did so much for her, at least for a while.

Thomas More I think had a genuine love and pride in Henry, and was truly heartbroken when they no longer agreed.

The person whose feelings I'd be most interested to really understand are Charles Brandon's. One of the very few people who managed to maintain a lifelong friendship with Henry, and always made it back into his good graces despite marrying Henry's sister without permission an a whole host of other annoyances. What was the deal with this guy? What did he really think of Henry? I'd love to know.

"Why is it that every time I need to get somewhere I get waylaid by jackassery?"

[–] mastersslave74 10 years ago

This show did a LOUSY job of showing the real love of COA and Henry. They were married 24 years---24 years! In the palaces he constructed, he used his tudor rose and her pomegranate symbol intertwined in the stone walls.

If you watch the show, it does not show the length of time which they were married.. and makes it seem like he just threw her away without caring at all ever.

[–] luckyathletic 9 years ago

Catherine makes several mentions how close they were and i could tell during trial he cared for her still. At her death he was grief stricken. And accelerates his hate for Anne

Now, historically, he was overjoyed at her death. And had decided before Anne came along that he wanted a divorce.

[–] louiseculmer 9 years ago

Catherine of Aragon definitely did love him, I think, even after he turned against her. The letters she wrote him show that. and he loved her, at least in the early years of their marriage. And I think he respected her too, she was successful as regent for instance when he was in France, he myst have respected that. It is more difficult to tell with his other wives. anne Boleyn certainly wanted to be queen, how much she cared for Henry personally is hard to say. same with Jane Seymour. Anne of Cleeves didn't really know him well enough. Catherine Howard I think probably not. catherine Parr was in love with someone else, she only really married Henry because she didn't dare refuse him.
While i agree beheading catherine Howard was harsh, Henry had made it law that adultery in a queen was treason. catherine must have had some idea of the risks she was running.