MovieChat Forums > Ocean's Thirteen (2007) Discussion > Issues after watching it 10+ times

Issues after watching it 10+ times

posted 9 years ago by monkeyalien
6 replies | jump to latest

I read somewhere that unlike he previous two movies we know every scam and trick they're running. This really isn't true because we don't know from the get-go that the FBI agent is Linus's father or that the guys know Toulor is watching them.

One thing I had wondered about was Rusty's line toward the end: "Do you think Nagel was...nah." A deleted scene with Nagel and Livingston has Nagel suggested that the faux earthquake might cause a real one, which it did. He also mentions not knowing how Livingston is going to rig all the machines, which Nagel figured out how to do, on the fly in the casino. This sets up Linus getting "arrested" by Bobby so Nagel can bring in pre-rigged machines.

I don't fully understand that part beginning with Danny saying "the bureau's in the house" and telling everyone to signal Livingston if they get close. Danny knows Bobby, presumably knows his cover is as an FBI agent, and thus "the bureau" could be his reference to Bobby, but why seemingly worry about Livingston getting busted? Why did Frank signal to him? Maybe Livingston wasn't wired to hear everyone? I thought I heard him on the comms after he got "busted". He doesn't actually get arrested but ends up cuffed in a car and thus able to do the hack. Seems to me that Bobby could have done the same with him as he later does with Linus. Walk him out in breakaway cuffs to do whatever else he needs to do. It wasn't a show for Benedict because he later sees/hears Bobby colluding with them. The only thing they really have to hide from Benedict is how they're really getting the diamonds. Bobby does bring a man & a woman with him but it seems to me that they're not real agents and there to sell himself as being there on official business. He picked them up in a diner and didn't bring them from the office. Another problem with using real FBI agent Bobby is that both Banks and Sponder encountered him. Maybe they'd assume he was a just a con man and not blow his cover.

(this signature was absent on picture day)

[–] Dargaud 9 years ago

10 times ? Don't you have anything better to do with your life ? Seriously...

[–] asherp 8 years ago

I hear ya and I have the same question. Perhaps it was for the benefit of Toulour...

There always seems to be miscellaneous irrelevant stuff in these movies. A lot of it cant make sense on the first viewing...like the slot machine payout at the end being referenced in the beginning. (almost as if it was all planned out in a hollywood script).

So perhaps it was just a redirect for the audience to make that moment seem interesting....i mean they throw so much stuff in there we arent supposed to get anyways....And if a viewer figured it out on the 10th viewing i think the film makers would be amused and happy.

[–] monkeyalien 8 years ago

The slot machine payout for the Five Diamond Award reviewer was planned as a reward for all the stuff they planned to put him through.

(this signature was absent on picture day)

[–] asherp 8 years ago

Yeah...i do realize that the slot machine was planned...and that the other looks like an error...and it very well may be an error...but it seems to me that the film makers were more concerned about making the story look good on film than pursuing losing plot holes.

What were all of the problems with the Asian high roller? He transferred 10 million dollars to the hotel's "cage" and there is a whole dispute on him not gambling enough? um....a customer hands you 10 million dollars to hold for a few days you NEVER try and kick them out of the hotel.

They just liked making little scenarios as slight of hand for the audience whether or not they made sense.

[–] oubrioko 8 years ago

You're really close.

Livingston Dell couldn't figure out how to rig the existing card shuffling machines that were already in the casino while masquerading as a card shuffle machine company service/repairman (especially with his casino security escort constantly watching him like a hawk). Livingston quietly asks Roman Nagel for help, asking Nagel not to tell the others.

Dell and Nagel successfully pre-rig the replacement card shuffling machines that Nagel (who also disguises himself as a card shuffling machine company serviceman), brings in after the phony F.B.I. arrest ruse. Dell, Nagel and Agent Caldwell were the only ones who were in on the F.B.I. arrest charade. This ruse was initially unbeknownst to Danny, Rusty and the others. Remember that Linus wondered why his father suddenly contacted and questioned him about his role in the current job. Linus explicitly asked Danny and Rusty if either of them had spoken to his father recently, and they each denied it. It was Abigail Sponder who called Agent Caldwell in an effort to confirm the identity of high-roller Mr. Weng and his assistant, Lenny Pepperidge.

Realizing that Lenny Pepperidge is his son, Caldwell surreptitiously becomes involved in the job. Caldwell devises the arrest scheme to allow Nagel to get the pre-rigged shuffling machines onto casino floor during while the Greco computer was offine. Rusty and Danny expected Dell to trigger the machines onsite to produce rigged shuffled card decks during during the Greco blackout. Even though Danny and Rusty knew Linus' father, they didn't know at the time that Caldwell was playing a deliberate key role within their own job. Remember, Livingston was so embarrassed about not being able to rig the shuffle machines by himself, that he begged Nagel not to tell the others. Ocean initially figured that Caldwell was at the casino on legitimate F.B.I. business to investigate or arrest a corrupt casino employee or a gambling cheat. As a precaution, Danny warned his counterparts to alert Livingston if Agent Caldwell approached. Dell was not wearing an earpiece, having to pretend to legitimately service card shuffling machines under the watchful eyes of his casino security escort.

Later, when Agent Caldwell enters to arrest Lenny Pepperidge with Abigail Sponder, the group realizes that it was no coincidence that Caldwell was at the casino that night.

[–] monkeyalien 8 years ago

That makes sense, but I wish it explained better in the movie with some dialogue where Rusty or Danny say something about Livingston & Nagel taking some initiative, Bobby saving their operation, and their sheer luck that Sponder called Bobby and not another agent.

(this signature was absent on picture day)