Marty will get plenty of academy love... when he's dead - Silence (2017) Discussion

[–] scorsese-1 8 years ago

Amen.

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[–] Prismark10 8 years ago

Scorsese already has a best director Oscar.

It's that man again!!

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[–] Outstandingness 8 years ago

same number as Kevin Costner.

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[–] Dannysich 8 years ago

Which he deserved . Dances with wolves was a great film especially the directors cut

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[–] Ace_Spade 8 years ago

Did he deserve it over Scorsese with Goodfellas, though?

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[–] Dannysich 8 years ago

Yes dances with wolves was much harder to make. Needed to learn culture , language, larger budget and it was extremely tough to get going during pre production.

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[–] imemminger 8 years ago

Yeah, it was a miracle Dances with Wolves even happened, and to be as good as it is... definitely deserves all it got.

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[–] Ace_Spade 8 years ago

I'm partly just playing Devil's advocate: does the effort put into the film determine the quality?

If I'm reading you right, you're giving points because it was more of a stretch for Costner to make his film - culturally and in terms of production woes - than it was Scorsese to make Goodfellas?

I'm not saying Goodfellas is the better film, but is that a fair characterisation of your statement here?

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[–] Dannysich 8 years ago

Well the directors cut of dances with wolves and argument could be made on which was better. Dances with wolves was much harder to make

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[–] Outstandingness 8 years ago

i don't think that's how they vote for best director though. they don't account for budget, culture (?) etc. and I don't think they should vote that way. I'm pretty sure they don't know how to vote for best director and usually best picture = best director. I like Costner a lot but giving him the oscar was probably due to the things the academy eats up every year: The sweeping historic epic, directed by the main actor, warm and fuzzy moments, the big character arcs etc. It's silly to deny a director an award based solely on the scale of his project. I'd actually argue the truly great directors don't need budgets and great stories to make the best movies.

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[–] Ace_Spade 8 years ago

I agree with you: I think the better movie - regardless of the hurdles leaped to make it - deserves the recognition and the award. I think hard work should be rewarded, and a lot of the time we see that adversity confronting a filmmaker yields good results (Star Wars, for instance), but ultimately, the question is whether or not the film itself is good/better/best.

If it were purely based on effort, Lost in La Mancha should be everybody's favourite film.

I don't think "more of a stretch" or "worked hard" are good benchmarks for quality or award-worthiness partly because every movie is hard and every movie is difficult for the passionate filmmakers to make. I bet Scorsese had plenty of sleepless nights working on Goodfellas, just as Costner would have had on Dances with Wolves.

As for "more of a stretch", I'd never argue that Scorsese wasn't more in his wheelhouse for Goodfellas, but he got there by more than a decade of perfecting his art - from Mean Streets on up - making those kinds of pictures. He's not having an easier time, he's more experienced. Also: "more of a stretch" would mean Ran wasn't as much of an achievement for Kurosawa as
Thor was for Kenneth Branagh.

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[–] Dannysich 8 years ago

Again like I said the directors cut for dances with wolves an argument could be made on which was the better film. Costner had a lot more to go through and still made a film which is still split on which is better. He earned best director .

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[–] Ace_Spade 8 years ago

I'm not 100% convinced that Dances with Wolves OR Goodfellas should have definitively won the award, nor Costner v. Scorsese, for that matter. I certainly want to allow for personal taste (it's art; it's subjective).

But I do want to know if you consider the final product or the creative process (in the face of adversity) to be more of a factor in selecting award-winners - if it were up to you, what would you put more weight on?

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[–] Dannysich 8 years ago

Definitely on how good the film is and how hard it was to make it. MS should have gotten a knod for silence he had worked on it for 25 years

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[–] Outstandingness 8 years ago

no offense but your criteria for awards seems shaky.

How long he worked on it isn't the mark of a good film and "going through more" is impossible to measure.

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[–] Dannysich 8 years ago

Were silence and dances with wolves bad films then ? Mr movie maker ? XD

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[–] mattdover2424 8 years ago

Marty is head and shoulders above the academy awards talent. Just like Kubrick, many of the all time legendary greats get snubbed year after year. Although Marty did get the best picture and best director win for The Departed. Love that movie, but definitely wasn't his most deserving.

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[–] RoIn100 8 years ago

Number of Academy Awards won for directing by Alfred Hitchcock: 0

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[–] scorsese-1 8 years ago

Kubrick and Welles=0

LMAO

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[–] Dannysich 8 years ago

If it wasn't for Star Wars we wouldn't have some of the great movies we have today

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[–] waterman-28255 8 years ago

Like what?

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[–] Dannysich 8 years ago

Pretty much every single action movie . If no one sees the good that came of star wars they are not movie buffs like many fanboys on this board claim to be.

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[–] RoIn100 8 years ago

Virtually everything that is wrong with movies today can be traced to the original Star Wars.

That was the point when blockbuster hits were no longer the movies that everybody wanted to see once, but movies that 14 year old boys want to see 20 times. It was the point when fanboys started getting catered too constantly while people who like movies with character development and in which people have actual conversations get mostly ignored.

I have nothing against popcorn movies, I've enjoyed quite a few myself, but there should be room for much more and, thanks to Star Wars, there isn't much.

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[–] Dannysich 8 years ago

Please empire strikes back is considered better then most low budget movies XD

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[–] earthanime 8 years ago

Do you know some of great director become director because they get inspire by Star Wars such as James Cameron or Christopher Nolan.
So the movie like
-Terminator (8.0)
-Terminator 2 (8.5)
-Batman Begins (8.3)
-The Dark Knight (9.0)
-Memento (8.5)
-The Prestige (8.5)
-Inception (8.8)
Is happen by Star Wars also The Dark Knight Trilogy revive most of awesome movie franchise as their inspiration such as
-Star Trek
-Planet of Apes
-James Bond
-X-Men

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[–] Ace_Spade 8 years ago

Star Wars itself is a great film, but it launched a lot of trends that created major fractures in the film world.

James Cameron and Christopher Nolan are some excellent filmmakers, but you know what? Both of them have serious, serious flaws, particularly Cameron, who is very flashy without a lot of substance. He's Michael Bay, but more tolerable. Nolan, meanwhile, makes great films, but not brilliant films. He's held back by convoluted plots that he winds up twisting until they snap.

You say that Cameron and Nolan are two of the best examples of what Star Wars inspires? I'll agree with you: these are experts who are very good but whose films suffer from aiming at this blockbuster action goal instead of on exploring their themes. They show the positive and negative of Star Wars' influence.

I do love Star Wars a lot. And I love plenty of movies and filmmakers inspired by Star Wars. And I would never claim that good movies aren't being made. My claim would be that better movies would be being made if it weren't for the kind of influence that Star Wars had.

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[–] Ace_Spade 8 years ago

I absolutely agree with you.

Early days of cinema found people experimenting with the new medium, the explosion of foreign filmmakers inspiring Hollywood talent and on up through the 1970s the best, most highly-marketed films were the artistically brilliant ones.

Star Wars hits and, as much as I love Star Wars, launches the spark that grows into a wildfire of dumbed-down action movies.

I love action movies, but the current trend of "nothing but superheros" is wearying and sad, given where film was headed in the '70s. One of (many) reasons that I maintain Annie Hall was the absolutely correct choice for the Best Picture of 1977.

If studios hadn't latched on to the Star Wars model of "franchise/merchandise first, art/filmmaking second," not only would we see more legendary pictures being made today, but even our "popcorn movies" would, I'd warrant, be higher quality. More Princess Bride, less Man of Steel.

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[–] Outstandingness 8 years ago

If studios hadn't latched on to the Star Wars model of "franchise/merchandise first, art/filmmaking second," not only would we see more legendary pictures being made today, but even our "popcorn movies" would, I'd warrant, be higher quality.

good point. I always liked Star Wars but I really feel like movies have stagnated and are recycling old formula more than ever. Maybe other factors play a part: heavy competetion with digital streaming, the dominance of children's animation.

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[–] c-smith1998-674-87100 8 years ago

Empire Strikes Back

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[–] shamis-881-25789 8 years ago

so true
so true
sadly

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[–] rascal67 8 years ago

Academy love is not the measure of a classic or great film. Scorsese has already been honored by the Academy in 2006, for an undeserving film. It was only because it was a weak year for film and he hadn't been awarded an Oscar for directing before. It all depends on the competition and the years that he lost, was the other film or director that won over him more deserving? Many people cite Goodfellas as being the year he should have won; but by my standards and taste, they got it right with Dances With Wolves.

They had an opportunity to award Scorsese with a "best adapted screenplay" Oscar for Goodfellas, which he co-wrote and should have won over DWW here. Blake's screenplay was an original script before a novel, then turned back into a script and Goodfellas if anything, did have a terrific script.

Don't eat the whole ones!...Those are for the guests. 🍪

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