MovieChat Forums > Waitress (2007) Discussion > Misogyny + misandry (SPOILERS)

Misogyny + misandry (SPOILERS)

posted 15 years ago by markfilipak
3 replies | jump to latest

Misogyny and misandry are incendiary topics and I want to get out in front of the flames (if there are flames, which I hope not). Please, this is for the ladies. Gentlemen (especially trolls), please don't contribute unless you can be positive.

Without wishing to start a culture war, I'd honestly like to know: 1, What women think of my analysis of the characters in Waitress (below), and 2, Whether women think that Adrienne Shelly may have been guilty of misandry.

I ask these questions because I suspect that a charge of misogyny could be leveled against almost all Hollywood films in which the protagonist is male and my reaction to the portrayal of men in Waitress sort of opened the door for me to that idea.

Do you have a favorite example of a popular (and even acclaimed) film that you think is misogynist? - No cheap shots here, please, as some "guy" films are intentionally misogynist - and why you think it's misogynist.

Misogyny is classically defined as hatred of or contempt for women, but in modern usage it seems to have been broadened to simple prejudice against women or even bias favoring men. Certainly I've witnessed situations in which men who merely question the judgment or opinion of women have (unjustifiably?) been labeled misogynists.

Misandry, a much less frequently encountered word, is the equivalent of misogyny but applied in the other direction, i.e., women against men.

The Women of Waitress. To me, the three women represent three fairly believable aspects of womanhood that are illustrative rather than stereotypical.

Jenna's the compliant, mothering woman who, ironically, is reluctant to actually be a mother until she actually IS a mother. She has a desperate fantasy affair with her doctor: a classic object of female romantic fantasy, in which she gains self esteem without actually having to consummate the affair. Jenna represents the nascent woman gaining knowledge through experience.

Becky's the lusty, forceful woman who makes the best of her bad situation: Her husband, whom we never see, has some unspecified medical condition that prevents him being a man. She has an illicit affair with her boss and has the good sense to keep it a secret. She has self esteem in abundance and doesn't need anyone to show her how to have a good time. Becky represents the fully realized woman who is worldly wise.

Dawn's a timid, insecure child-woman who is most comfortable allowing herself to be swept along by the more decisive people around her. She is Becky's antithesis. She seems to be devoid of any self esteem and we're left wondering if and how her marriage to Ogie will change her. Dawn - good name - represents the potential woman.

The Men of Waitress. To me, except for Old Joe (who is old and therefore safe), all of the men are negative stereotypes.

Earl's simply a bully. Like all bullies, he's childish and selfish and manipulative. He's fearful that Jenna may escape his grasp and, driven by feelings of inadequacy, demands reassurance from her, even coaching her to speak the reassuring words he wants to hear. Of course he IS inadequate! He's not a man. He's thoroughly despicable. I wondered how he appeared in her eyes before they got married.

Doctor Pomatter's a cad. As we discover when Jenna's in labor, he and his wife have a loving relationship, so why was he so ready to fool around with Jenna during her pregnancy? He leads her on for 7-1/2 months with hints that he's going to help her to escape Earl, but he doesn't do anything. It appears that the only reason he's attracted to Jenna is that she threw herself at him and he failed to duck. He's pretty despicable too.

Cal, the restaurant's manager, is also a cad. Though he's happily married to a woman who's reported to be extremely nice, he nonetheless has an affair with Becky. He seems like just another opportunist guy who thinks below the belt, but given Becky's zesty character and that it appears she can give as good as she gets, we can almost forgive Cal for being weak. Of course since he's Becky's boss he should have grazed in a different pasture - that is, if he was truly unhappy in his marriage (which doesn't appear to be the case). The truth is: he's pretty despicable too.

Ogie seems to be the most sympathetic male around, but he's a nut case: after a five minute "date" with Dawn, he's talking about marriage. Whew! Is that desperate! He's the stereotypical nerd who feels he can't get a woman unless he overwhelms her (and overwhelm her he does). That she succumbs to this ploy - yes, I know their relationship developed all through the majority of Jenna's pregnancy - scared the hell out of me and I half expected that by the end of the film she'd be dead by his hand. I feared for her.

Edit: Added "SPOILERS" to the subject line & reorganized.

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[–] owenrcarpenter 15 years ago

Groucho Marx once said that he would never wish to belong to any club that would allow him to be a member! Nowhere is 'Waitress' is this mind-set more obvious than in the personality of Dawn. This woman is in many ways the saddest character in the film. She is clearly suffers from a collection of 'schemas' that she has probably had since childood or early adolescence. Dawn is trapped by a combination of narcissism and self-loathing. She expects rejection from others and so attempts to avoid being hurt by pushing people away before the prospect of a deeper relationship arises. Dawn is a woman who would describe herself as 'short' rather than petite, her hair as 'ginger' instead of titian and her skin as 'pasty' instead of alabaster. She is one of those people for whom the glass is always going to be half-empty rather that half-full. In the fullness of time, Dawn would inevitably have ended her days as the sad, sweet den-mother to a vast pride of stray cats that she would feed and lovingly refer to as her 'babies'.

This is the moment where Ogie entered her life. Ogie is not Dawn's stalker. He is her suitor. Dawn is a deeply unhappy and lonely woman. she percieves herself as unattractive and behaves accordingly. When she looks at the beautiful face in the mirror she whistfully describes herself as 'almost pretty'. Yet even that was only due to another persons make-over job. Dawn is miserable and dreams of finding a man who will love her. Yet when she does find one, she is simply unable to believe it. If Ogie genuinely cares for her, then there must be something very wrong with him. Dawn flies into panic and labels him the Mad Stalking Elf, simultaniously branding him not just insane and predetory, but unearthly into the bargain. Dear God, this Ogie is a monster! A monster!

Yet take a good look at him. Ogie is no Ogre, but a Swain. At all times his behaviour towards Dawn is exemplary. He invariably treats her with the utmost respect. Ogie always approaches her in public places, and never without her express permission. He is always polite and never says anything crude or offensive. Most importantly, he always leaves when requested to do so. Dawn is cruel and spiteful towards Ogie. She insults and humiliates and every turn, and yet he still persists in plighting his troth. When Dawn abuses him, Ogie does not become angry or hostile, he simply weeps. Dawn cannot bring herself that Ogie is sincere, and so constantly tests his devotion. She rejects him at every turn but he always returns, his love a strong as ever. Yes, Oggie overwealms Dawn, but be does not overbear her. His love is as gentle - and relentless - as the tide. Ogie can clearly be seen to follow in the footsteps of Lysander in 'A Midsummer Nights Dream' or Sir Gawain in 'The Tale of the Green Knight'. He is truly the purist Knight of all. Ogie's behaviour is entirely with the tradition of the great 19th Century Romantic such as Keats, Shelley or Byron. He is the only person in 'Waitress' who totally honest and lacking a hidden agenda. In American terms, he is a true Southern Gentleman.

Eventually, Dawn relents and at last sees herslf through Ogie's eyes, as someone worthy of love. She recognises the sincerity of Ogie's devotion and finds it with her heart to return it. They are married and at the end of the movie they are apparently still together in a happy and heathly relationship. The story of Dawn and Ogie is not one of 'a woman who marries her stalker', but that of an unhappy woman rescued from a life of loneliness by a kind and loving man. I would submit that Ogie is the most sypathetic figure in 'Waitress' - male or female. He is the 'Yin' to Earl's 'Yang'. One man is a vicious bully who thinks only about himself and the power he can exercise over others. The other is a decent and compassionate man who devotes himself to another, the woman who is the love of his life.

The tale of Ogie and Dawn is the most effective arguement against the spurious claim that 'Waitress' is an misandric film, or that Adrienne Shelly herself had 'issues' with men!

[–] markfilipak 15 years ago

That's a different (softer) take on Ogie. Yeah, I can see that. Thanks for your contribution! I guess I'm being too hard on the poor (noble) fellow.

Interested in collaborating on a new type of film rating system? Contact me.

[–] owenrcarpenter 15 years ago

You're vey welcome, Mark. By the way, you could also read 'Waitress' as the story of Dawn's graduation from girlhood to adulthood by means of 'kissing the frog'. Ogie is the repellent Beast that Dawn has to kiss before transfoming from Beautiful (asexual) Child to Beautiful (sexual) Woman.

It's just a thought.